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U.S. Politics: One Wave, Two Waves, Red Waves, Blue Waves

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So apparently Trump is now threatening to send 15,000 troops to the Mexican border.  Have to wonder what the endgame is here.  I'm assuming this is mostly just to generate midterm turnout, and the bigoted macho dictator stuff is just the cherry on top?

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1.        The thing I am legitimately afraid of is will my vote even be counted this time?  I have already voted one of the few things South Carolina actually does right is early voting but maybe there should be such a thing as email confirmation that you voted. 

2.       I continue to have my mind blown by the mainstreaming and legitimizing of Antisemitism by voices within the Republican party that seem to be being paid attention to more with each passing day.  It wasn’t so long ago the Evangelical right in this country LOVED Jews (well that really isn’t true but they did need them in Jerusalem in possession of the temple mount so they could be converted by Jesus when he came back)  Antisemitism is in a sense the world’s first conspiracy theory and in a more civilized and enlightened society would be kept on the shelf next to that guy with the crazy hair from Ancient Aliens and the Elvis is alive people but it has always gotten people killed and that is not artistic license it literally gets people killed.  It makes no sense because like all conspiracy theories it only makes sense if you don’t think about it for too long.  How can you be a parasite with no culture of your own and simultaneously run all the banks?   How can you contribute nothing and control everything?  Switch it up change it around the same old crap has been peddled since at least 1050 and probably before that. 

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Hate Can't Diminish "Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood:"

Quote

Squirrel Hill is an urban neighborhood within Pittsburgh. But my children are allowed to walk by themselves to the Squirrel Hill branch of the Carnegie Public Library or to Rita's for frozen custard. It is safe here. On Saturday night, hundreds of us gathered at the corner of Murray and Forbes at a candlelight vigil. The students at Taylor Allderdice High School arranged it themselves. They said they did it because they didn't want to be alone and they didn't think we wanted to be alone, either. This is a beautiful community.

You should visit. You would like it here.

But if you can't visit, please consider being careful to avoid the pitfalls that come with defining people you do not know as "the other." How? First, don't spread unsourced internet memes. We know that foreign nationals tried to tamper with our election in 2016, and that they are doing it again.

Second, educate yourself. We know a lot about how people can manipulate people's fear and anger of "outsiders" to further their own agendas. The Anti-Defamation League and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum have resources to help you learn how you might be manipulated.

Finally, tune out politicians who try to stoke fear and anger about people different from you. Fear and anger are powerful motivators. They are a good way to get people to participate and to vote. But they aren't good for our national discourse. They aren't good for you. And as Saturday's events make clear, they are not good for this beautiful, peaceful neighborhood.

Disclaimer:  Kris Kanthak is an advisor, colleague, and friend.

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Just now, Crazydog7 said:

1.        The thing I am legitimately afraid of is will my vote even be counted this time?  I have already voted one of the few things South Carolina actually does right is early voting but maybe there should be such a thing as email confirmation that you voted. 

 

2.       I continue to have my mind blown by the mainstreaming and legitimizing of Antisemitism by voices within the Republican party that seem to be being paid attention to more with each passing day.  It wasn’t so long ago the Evangelical right in this country LOVED Jews (well that really isn’t true but they did need them in Jerusalem in possession of the temple mount so they could be converted by Jesus when he came back)  Antisemitism is in a sense the world’s first conspiracy theory and in a more civilized and enlightened society would be kept on the shelf next to that guy with the crazy hair from Ancient Aliens and the Elvis is alive people but it has always gotten people killed and that is not artistic license it literally gets people killed.  It makes no sense because like all conspiracy theories it only makes sense if you don’t think about it for too long.  How can you be a parasite with no culture of your own and simultaneously run all the banks?   How can you contribute nothing and control everything?  Switch it up change it around the same old crap has been peddled since at least 1050 and probably before that. 

 

It’s not just the Second Coming. Loving Israel can fit into the bigot’s hierarchy if you just have them above muslims/arabs. 

My gf was raised by racist old grandparents, and she tells me that racist hierarchies are very much a thing.

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1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

So apparently Trump is now threatening to send 15,000 troops to the Mexican border.  Have to wonder what the endgame is here.  I'm assuming this is mostly just to generate midterm turnout, and the bigoted macho dictator stuff is just the cherry on top?

 

Gives him a chance to do his two favorite things

1.  Talk big

2.  Send other people out to do his dirty work. 

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6 hours ago, Altherion said:

Equivocation is one of the most basic tools of even halfway decent politicians; it changed nothing then and it would change nothing this year either. It is not worth worrying about.

I hate to repeat myself. 

On 10/29/2018 at 9:06 AM, mormont said:

The idea that any foul play by the right can be excused as 'politics as usual' and utterly unremarkable is one of your go-to lines, and it's rubbish. 

Your entire reply consists of this guff. Everything that's happened so far is normal and fine, the idea that anything worse could happen is incredible. Reality does not agree with your bullshit. 

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7 hours ago, Altherion said:

Equivocation is one of the most basic tools of even halfway decent politicians; it changed nothing then and it would change nothing this year either. It is not worth worrying about.

Not like this. There are many things which certain Americans regard as un-American and others do not, but one branch of government (especially the executive) seizing power is one of the few things that'll get 90%+ agreement on.

They accept that he won, but with a caveat and only after trying everything they could think of to de-legitimize him and failing. Examples of the latter include:

1) Massive protests with no specific causes or demands following the election.

2) Dozens of respectable and hundreds of lousy articles detailing the vices of the Electoral College and crowing on the (utterly irrelevant) fact that Clinton won the popular vote.

3) The recount campaign in the Midwest.

4) After all else failed, the faithless elector ploy which, hilariously, resulted in more electors abandoning Clinton than abandoned Trump.

The caveat is, of course, the (absurd) idea that Russia played a significant role in Trump's victory -- an idea which has been inflated beyond all reasonable expectations. Mind you, I think that this is good strategy on part of the Democrats, but to do all of these things and then argue that de-legitimizing the victories of your opponent is not politics as usual is silly.

Two points:

1.  I’ve seen quite a few Trump supporters on social media advocating Trump take a Franco like dictatorial position to oxymoronicly “protect American values”.  

2.  We know Russia wants to prompt chaos in the US, it serves Russian (Putin’s) interests for the US to turn inward leaving the Russians (Putin) free to pursue their (his) goals.  What we do not know is how effective those actions to promote chaos are and how many of our current political fires were prompted by Russian actions and how many due to our own political polarization.  

 

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison

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6 hours ago, James Arryn said:

It’s not just the Second Coming. Loving Israel can fit into the bigot’s hierarchy if you just have them above muslims/arabs. 

My gf was raised by racist old grandparents, and she tells me that racist hierarchies are very much a thing.

Having been raised by a racist father, I can confirm that this is very much the case.  Being a raging bigot requires a lot of mental gymnastics.  

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Trump wants to end birthright citizenship with an Executive Order

Quote

President Trump is planning to sign an executive order that would seek to end the right to U.S. citizenship for children born in the United States to noncitizens, a move most legal experts say runs afoul of the Constitution.

The action, which Trump previewed in a television clip broadcast Tuesday, would be the most aggressive yet by a president elected to office pledging to take a hard line on immigration, an issue he has revived in advance of next week’s midterm elections.

“We’re the only country in the world where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States for 85 years with all of those benefits,” Trump said during an interview with Axios scheduled to air as part of a new HBO series starting this weekend. “It’s ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. And it has to end.”

...

Trump, who has long decried “anchor babies,” said he has discussed ending birthright citizenship with his legal counsel and believes it can be accomplished with executive action, a view at odds with the opinions of most legal scholars.

“It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don’t,” Trump told Axios.

When told that view is disputed, Trump asserted: “You can definitely do it with an act of Congress. But now they’re saying I can do it just with an executive order.”

“It’s in the process. It’ll happen . . . with an executive order,” he said, without offering a time frame.

...

In the Axios interview, Trump incorrectly asserted that the United States is the only country that offers birthright citizenship.

NumbersUSA, a group that favors reduced immigration, has compiled a list that shows 33 nations grant citizenship to anyone born within their borders.

The list includes Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and most other countries in Central and South America. The United States and Canada are the only two “developed” countries, as defined by the International Monetary Fund, that have unrestricted birthright citizenship laws.

Hey hey, ho ho, Rapist Don has got to go.

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It's amazing how in this day and age when checking out the veracity of a politician's claims is easier than ever Trump keeps blatantly lying practically every time he opens his mouth yet it doesn't seem to hurt his popularity at all. His supporters apparently just love being treated like gullible morons who'd believe every ridiculous and blatantly false claim.

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1 hour ago, Paladin of Ice said:

Trump wants to end birthright citizenship with an Executive Order

Hey hey, ho ho, Rapist Don has got to go.

Such an executive order will violate the 14th Amendment, on its face.  It should be kicked by the courts promptly.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison

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34 minutes ago, David Selig said:

 His supporters apparently just love being treated like gullible morons who'd believe every ridiculous and blatantly false claim.

I don't think this is true. I think his unwavering supporters welcome his lies with open arms as long as those lies validate their preconceived notions. They don't give a fuck about the truth, and they never have. They want to "win", and fuck everyone else. This cancer has existed within America for, like, ever, but was sort of kept in check during my lifetime. Much to the anger of those who felt oppressed by the notion that ALL men and women are created equal, by those who felt that progressives were forcing them to pretend to be tolerant; those who bemoan social justice warriors and condemn political correctness as fascist in its own right. 

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28 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Such an executive order will violate the 14th Amendment, in its face.  It should be kicked by the courts promptly.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I believe you are right. The argument against birthright citizenship is one that will be struck down by the courts all the way to the Supreme Court, and there too. 

Children born in United States are citizens of the United States, per Section 1 of the 14th Amendment. 

 

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13 hours ago, DMC said:

Well, that's a political calculation that none of us has any idea about right now.  There's never really been a "long term" shutdown in the modern era (wouldn't know about pre-FDR).  Pretty sure the longest were the 1995-96 shutdowns which lasted 27 days, and the 2013 shutdown which lasted 17 days.  Who knows what would happen is one were to go substantially longer?  My point is depending on the conditions, it may be worth it to find out.

I understand the point you’re making, and it could prove correct. It could also be a disaster. Trump will look for any reason to blame Democrats, and he’s a much better marketer than they are. If we forecast based on the substance of the issue, I think you’d be right. But I’ve long since given up on the substance of things and instead look at them the way I figure the average idiot American would, and I think they’d side with Trump.

13 hours ago, DMC said:

I find it amusing that everybody here is always insisting the Dems need to play hardball.  But when I identify the institutional tools and processes that they actually could use to play hardball, it's "no that could hurt us."

Dude, we’re Democrats. We’re born scared and grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory is our nature. What else would you expect?

:P

Jokes aside, I’m not sure how much there is to gain by playing institutional hardball (outside of what we’ve already seen). What we need is rhetorical hardball. And we’re finally seeing that.

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So the Trump strategy now is to throw out red meat (not even red meat, the promise of red meat) out to his goosestepping followers? Armed forces to protect us from the threat of the caravan! End birthright citizenship! Vague Medicare plan to lower drug prices with no estimated end time! 

Wonder what's next.....

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Do we really want Trump, or anyone for that matter, doing away with parts of the Constitution via executive order?  I don't think it'll stand, but with the current make-up of the court, who knows.  Seems like with all the gnashing of teeth about the 2nd amendment, even the Trumpiest Trumper wouldn't want to set the precedent of Presidents interpreting the Constitution as they see fit and issuing EO's to edit it.   

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Going after birth rights, huh? A common tactic of...what kind of groups, again? Like a lot of thugs in history, there’s so little subtlety it can be mistaken for clownishness. But a lot of the worst actors in history got their wiggle room because they seemed too ridiculous to take seriously. Until they weren’t. I can’t wait for the usual suspects to explain how this and calling the immigrant caravan an ‘invasion’ which might prompt suspending h.c. is all very ordinary and somehow just like Obama or w/e if you look at it in a certain way. Fuck that noise, people like you are the paving bricks for the shittiest roads in history. 

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10 minutes ago, S John said:

Do we really want Trump, or anyone for that matter, doing away with parts of the Constitution via executive order?  I don't think it'll stand, but with the current make-up of the court, who knows.  Seems like with all the gnashing of teeth about the 2nd amendment, even the Trumpiest Trumper wouldn't want to set the precedent of Presidents interpreting the Constitution as they see fit and issuing EO's to edit it.   

Thats exactly right. I want a conservative Supreme Court because I want the Constitution interpreted the way its written. The Supreme Court needs to defend every Amendment to the Constitution, it cant pick and choose. 

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11 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

But a lot of the worst actors in history got their wiggle room because they seemed too ridiculous to take seriously. Until they weren’t.

Future generations (if there are any) will marvel on how the wealthiest, most powerful country history had seen to date, allowed a man who said the following to take the highest position of power - 

"Wallace pressed him again: “There is a tradition in this country, in fact one of the prides of this country is the peaceful transition of power, and that no matter how hard-fought a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign that the loser concedes to the winner. Not saying that you're necessarily going to be the loser or the winner. But that the loser concedes to the winner, and that the country comes together in part for the good of the country. Are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle?”

And again, Trump wouldn’t say that he would. “I'll tell you at the time,” he repeated. “I'll keep you in suspense, okay?”

 

https://www.vox.com/2016/10/19/13341712/presidential-debate-donald-trump-concede

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1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Such an executive order will violate the 14th Amendment, on its face.  It should be kicked by the courts promptly.

Surely this is normal, business as usual, a common tool for any politician, etc etc.

Just saving Altherion the effort.

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