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U.S. Politics: One Wave, Two Waves, Red Waves, Blue Waves

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The idjiot who claimed the massive protests after the inauguration had no cause and no point somehow misses that the hugest protest in D.C. itself and supported throughout the nation was the Woman's March, and it had a very specific point, which is that the orange nazi is a rapist, a sexist, a racist who was putting this nation in great peril because his objective was to get rid of all rules and regulations to protect and safeguard human rights of every kind.

 

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19 hours ago, DMC said:

..So, are you suggesting the courts are going to invalidate the (House) election results?

No. I think I either misread or misquoted there. It was more a thought about the GOP/conservatives keeping control of the USA regardless of elections.

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20 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You don’t know that.  

There seems plenty of precedence, five people was enough to redefine the 2nd amendment to cover self-defence. It seems unlikely the votes are there for that redefinition of the 14th amendment, but that could change with any death or retirement.

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Lol @ the people here that cried foul when some of us called Trump a fascist and thought the constitution would protect this country. 

 

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Trump: The Media Is Biased Because It Didn’t Blame Obama for Dylann Roof Killing Black People

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/cesar-sayoc-trump-media-bias-blame-obama-for-dylann-roof.html

Quote

"Now, they didn’t do that with Bernie Sanders when he had, they didn’t do that with the Democrats when other people came out,” Trump said. “They didn’t do that with President Obama, with the church, the horrible situation with the church. They didn’t do that. They put my name in the headlines.”

 

Edited by Martell Spy

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3 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I understand the point you’re making, and it could prove correct. It could also be a disaster. Trump will look for any reason to blame Democrats, and he’s a much better marketer than they are. If we forecast based on the substance of the issue, I think you’d be right. But I’ve long since given up on the substance of things and instead look at them the way I figure the average idiot American would, and I think they’d side with Trump.

Dude, we’re Democrats. We’re born scared and grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory is our nature. What else would you expect?

:P

Jokes aside, I’m not sure how much there is to gain by playing institutional hardball (outside of what we’ve already seen). What we need is rhetorical hardball. And we’re finally seeing that.

I suppose Trump is a better marketer.  That just means the Dems need to get better marketers.  That's not meant to impugn Trump - he's clearly skilled in this regard - but there's no reason the Dems can't find better people.  On a more broad point, I think you (as most) overrate what I'd call "campaign effects," or in this case what Neustadt would describe as the prestige aspect of "the power of persuasion."  With affective polarization these are fairly pointless on the national level.

Rhetorical hardball should reinforce and support institutional hardball.  Otherwise what's the point?

2 hours ago, Frog Eater said:

Thats exactly right. I want a conservative Supreme Court because I want the Constitution interpreted the way its written. The Supreme Court needs to defend every Amendment to the Constitution, it cant pick and choose. 

Right, because conservative justices always interpret the Constitution the way it's written.  :rolleyes:

2 hours ago, Fez said:

The Federal budget process is ludicrously long and complicated, sometimes confusing even those who actually work with it regularly.

Aye, it is confusing.  I should have shown more patience, especially as a teacher.  On that note I encourage anyone still taking undergrad classes to enroll in a Legislative Process course.  For Americans I've got the course prepped, could totally help you cheat!

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Does anyone know when this Ex Order is going to be propounded or how Trump is proposing to use his control over executive agencies to attempt to make such an order stick?

I sincerely doubt Trump nor his administration has any idea about the second aspect of this question, so I don't know how anyone else could.

25 minutes ago, Seli said:

No. I think I either misread or misquoted there. It was more a thought about the GOP/conservatives keeping control of the USA regardless of elections.

Gotcha, cool.

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5 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Such an executive order will violate the 14th Amendment, on its face.  It should be kicked by the courts promptly.

Obviously, even the most rankly partisan court couldn’t accept this, (well, maybe some of Trump’s completely unqualified appointments would like the one(s?) nominated despite never having tried a case before) but what I’m more worried about are the next steps and the ripple effects, if in fact Trump isn’t simply blowing smoke to stir up election turnout.

Like if Trump tries to pull a Jackson after being ruled against and says “Lets see them enforce it.” (I strongly doubt he’d try that seriously because I doubt he has the spine for the blowback from that sort of blatantly unconstitutional power grab... but spending years whining about it to favorable crowds while inspiring more political terrorism is straight from his playbook.)

Then there’s the future fascists getting obsessed with the idea of literally being able to write new definitions of who does and doesn’t count as American, a goal they’ll make up all kinds of bullshit and fake stats to turn into a wedge issue with an uniformed electorate, the future Conservatives who only care about winning, complete with the future McConnells who know they can’t get this result by working within the system but are willing to go outside law and convention to get whatever they want, no matter what damage they have to do to the country or what institution they need to undermine to get it, etc.

The danger isn’t the courts ruling against the 14th now, but what kind of black is white, night is day rationale will be used to try to accomplish it, (or to come as close as possible to accomplishing it) in the years to come should anyone open that door, or seriously flirt with doing so.

Edited by Paladin of Ice

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17 minutes ago, Seli said:

There seems plenty of precedence, five people was enough to redefine the 2nd amendment to cover self-defence. It seems unlikely the votes are there for that redefinition of the 14th amendment, but that could change with any death or retirement.

And the individual mandate still exists because Chief Justice Roberts voted for it to exist.  At best we can speculate that 2 members of the SCOTUS are dependable votes for Trump.

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Just took my daily look at RCP's latest polls.  Damn the Dems look pretty good.  Not by enough in many, granted, but it's still better to be winning within the margins than losing.  Sinema by 6 in a NBC/Marist poll is particularly encouraging.

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Is it that weird to think that the EO would be a narrow definition to exclude undocumented or unlawful people in the US having their children born in the US be citizens, and the court saying that that very specific redefinition is fine?

 

I can see that easily happening. 

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8 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

 

Hilarious -- one notices immediately who the first one to roll this out on the political threads here.

 

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This is *exactly* what I anticipated a few weeks ago. Thank the Gods that the Republicans alt-right are such amateurs at this and Mueller reacted fast enough. But next time they may do better...

Edited by Rippounet

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5 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Hilarious -- one notices immediately who the first one to roll this out on the political threads here.

 

LOL Yep.

Question for the lawyers. Isn't this one more to add to the obstruction of justice pile?

Edit: No need to take the woman's word for it this time. The stupid man tweeted it himself!

Edited by Crazy Cat Lady in Training

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/democrats-could-win-some-huge-midterm-victories/574282/

 

rahm emmanuel authored a gloaty and smug article in the Atlantic about how confident he is in democrat victory everywhere but the senate: ergo this must mean by all the laws of the universe that democrats are karmicly fucked and won’t win a damn thing, no house, governorships nor state legislatures.

Edited by lokisnow

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