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NFL 2018 IV: A Hue, A Cry and now Goodbye


Bronn Stone

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13 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Yup. The rookie wag scale was a game changer. If you can get a QB who can be top 10ish by their second or third year, you've hit the jackpot and have to go all in. Now, I don't think Goff is a top 10 QB, but they're so loaded everywhere else that it doesn't really matter.

As far as the WR trades go, the Cowboys look like fools. Cooper has the higher ceiling, but he's been a disappointment for a while now. I'd rather have Tate, especially at that value. 

Goff is top 10. Hasnt won anything yet, and he has crazy weapons, but name 10 better qbs starting atm

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58 minutes ago, The Lasr Storm said:

Goff is top 10. Hasnt won anything yet, and he has crazy weapons, but name 10 better qbs starting atm

Brady

Rodgers

Brees

Roethlisberger

Wilson

Rivers

Ryan

Mahomes

That's eight that I'm sure of. You could potentially put Luck, Newton, Stafford, Cousins, Watson and Wentz ahead, depending on personal preference. There's a lot of good quarterbacks in the league these days.

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Just now, DanteGabriel said:

Brady

Rodgers

Brees

Roethlisberger

Wilson

Rivers

Ryan

Mahomes

That's eight that I'm sure of. You could potentially put Luck, Newton, Stafford, Cousins, Watson and Wentz ahead, depending on personal preference. There's a lot of good quarterbacks in the league these days.

Plus FitzMagic! on his good days.

Considering just how much talent there is at QB these days, the entire concept of top-10 at the position is kinda silly. 

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1 hour ago, The Lasr Storm said:

Goff is top 10. Hasnt won anything yet, and he has crazy weapons, but name 10 better qbs starting atm

Easy, let’s do it by division:

AFC East: Brady

AFC North: Big Ben

AFC South: Luck, Watson

AFC West: Rios, Mahomes

NFC East: Wentz

NFC North: Rodgers, Stafford, Cousins

NFC South: Brees, Cam, Ryan

NFC West: Wilson

 

That’s 14 QBs I would absolutely take before Goff. Jared Goff is the dumbest QB in the NFL. Homeboy was born and raised in California. Went to college in California. Plays professionally in California. AND HE DIDN’T KNOW THAT THE SUN RISES IN THE EAST AND SETS IN THE WEST.

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33 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

That’s 14 QBs I would absolutely take before Goff. Jared Goff is the dumbest QB in the NFL. Homeboy was born and raised in California. Went to college in California. Plays professionally in California. AND HE DIDN’T KNOW THAT THE SUN RISES IN THE EAST AND SETS IN THE WEST.

To be fair, as Kyrie Irving has taught us, the Earth is flat. And therefore the entire concept of 'East' and 'West' is unnecessary nonsense. The true directions are hubwards, rimwards, turnwise, and widdershins.

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21 minutes ago, Fez said:

To be fair, as Kyrie Irving has taught us, the Earth is flat. And therefore the entire concept of 'East' and 'West' is unnecessary nonsense. The true directions are hubwards, rimwards, turnwise, and widdershins.

I can’t tell if Kyrie is joking around or not. Goff legitly didn’t know. The funniest part was after he learned where the sun rises and sets, he went around telling his teammates. They looked horrified.

The point is this team is thriving because of McBae, not Goff. He makes the game so much easier for him. I guess you could say the same thing about Reid and Mahomes, but Mahomes looks like a world beater. Goff does not.

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8 hours ago, briantw said:

Yeah, but the main difference is that we know Tate is good.  I have no idea if Cooper is good or not, and at best his QB situation has stayed the same or probably slightly regressed.

We also know Tate is 30.  Cooper is only 24.  With Cooper, the Raiders were able to play the 'he may grow' card.

I'm not buying it and I think the Cowboys got robbed.  But Tate is an old warhorse and there is no hope he'll ever be any more than he already is.

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17 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

We also know Tate is 30.  Cooper is only 24.  With Cooper, the Raiders were able to play the 'he may grow' card.

I'm not buying it and I think the Cowboys got robbed.  But Tate is an old warhorse and there is no hope he'll ever be any more than he already is.

Getting Tate is a win now move done by the defending champions. Giving up a third for a potential rental of a good WR is a solid move. The Cowboys also have indicated that they’re in win now mode even though they lack the quality to be there. They gave up a first for a lesser player, who while younger, is also going to be looking to get paid soon. Unless Cooper realizes his potential and does so quickly, it was a terrible move.

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1 minute ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Getting Tate is a win now move done by the defending champions. Giving up a third for a potential rental of a good WR is a solid move. The Cowboys also have indicated that they’re in win now mode even though they lack the quality to be there. They gave up a first for a lesser player, who while younger, is also going to be looking to get paid soon. Unless Cooper realizes his potential and does so quickly, it was a terrible move.

I'm not sure I agree that Tate was a good move (a third seems high to me), but it was at least a defensible one.  It could be just a one year rental, but it doesn't have to be.  I'm sure if he's a good fit in Philly he'd resign there if they made a reasonable offer.

Cooper on the other hand has not been as good a receiver as Tate and the Cowboys gave up what is likely to be a pick in the 10-15 range to get him.  Based on the trade value chart the Philly pick is worth approximately 1/6th as much as the Dallas pick. 

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18 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

I definitely do NOT think Cooper is worth a #1 pick.  But I do think he's worth more in this market than Tate.  Not by much, but more. 

I'd say they're about equal.  Both are worth, IMO a late 3rd or early 4th round pick.  And thus the Eagles overpaid slightly, and the Cowboys overpaid egregiously. 

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4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I'd say they're about equal.  Both are worth, IMO a late 3rd or early 4th round pick.  And thus the Eagles overpaid slightly, and the Cowboys overpaid egregiously. 

Agreed, and it's magnified based on the positions of the teams. I would argue, if you think Cooper is better with a higher ceiling while also being younger, that the Eagles trading a first for Cooper would make more sense than the Cowboys doing it. The Eagles were one of four teams, IMO, that could say at the start of the season that their roster was better than everyone else (the other three being the Rams, Saints and Vikings). However, they've been rocked by injuries, and retooling makes sense if you still think you're a contender. The Cowboys, OTOH, are a very middling team, and there is no way you can justify giving up a first for an okay WR. 

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13 hours ago, Triskele said:

Is Green Bay selling with the Ha-Ha trade?  One could argue perhaps not because there was little left on his contract, but he's a really solid player, so I can see the other side.  

The biggest hope for Green Bay is that they're really not out of it for the division.  They might have a better chance of winning the division than they do at making a wild card slot.  Minnesota got a rude awaking at home against New Orleans, Detroit looks to be selling, and while Chicago is better than expected and much improved I still don't think they're any kind of sure-fire 11-5 division winner.  

The Ha-Ha trade does seem weird for the Packers.  He is a first round draft pick who has been, while not exceptional, at least a good player for them.  I expected GB to resign him when his contract was up.  But apparently they decided to go another way, which NFL teams do all the time, so whatever. 

But they're right in the playoff hunt, and it's not like they can afford to just throw away another year of Rodgers's prime.  I have to assume that they think their younger replacement will be just as good as Clinton-Dix, but you'd think they'd hold on to him just as injury insurance, since safeties get hurt a lot and I very much doubt they have two guys as good as Ha-Ha on the team.  The return (4th round pick) they got was OK, but if he walks in free agency, they'd be looking a compensatory pick of probably a 4th or 5th rounder, unless GB is planning on signing enough guys that they don't get any compensatory picks (which the Packers typically do not do). 

Anyways, I agree, it's hard to make it add up, seems like a trade with little upside for them and significant potential risk.  Unless he was a locker room problem or something (which I have not heard about).

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On 10/31/2018 at 9:31 AM, DanteGabriel said:

Brady

Rodgers

Brees

Roethlisberger

Wilson

Rivers

Ryan

Mahomes

That's eight that I'm sure of. You could potentially put Luck, Newton, Stafford, Cousins, Watson and Wentz ahead, depending on personal preference. There's a lot of good quarterbacks in the league these days.

What about Eli[te] Manning? Duh. :P

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Met an attorney friend for lunch today.  We had BBQ.  He's a Raiders fan.  I'm a Niners fan.  

We spent the hour mostly arguing over who's team is going to suck worse tonight.  When the alert popped up from ESPN on the TV behind him that CJ Beathard was 50/50 to play tonight, I told him I win. :( 

ETA:  And now its been announced that someone named Nick Mullens will be starting at QB...  

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