Alexis-something-Rose Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 On 10/31/2018 at 8:45 PM, Fire Eater said: Also, Sansa hides under the alias "Alayne Stone," Rickon hides on Skagos which means "stone" in the Old Tongue and Arya hides Needle, representing her Stark identity, under a stone in the steps. A dragon waking from stone could mean a hidden Targaryen being revealed. Jon Connington is turning to stone with his greyscale. But he has his own dragon he is intent on revealing. (disclaimer: I believe Aegon is the real deal). Jon has been surrounded with all sorts of metaphors. Jon Snow's thought about Stannis, Mel and Val; He is stone and she is flame. (Jon III, ADWD 10) Val stood on the platform as still as if she had been carved of salt. (Jon III, ADWD 10) On 11/2/2018 at 12:04 AM, Fire Eater said: I've already pointed that a prophecy always refers to a Targaryen when there is a dragon involved. A hidden Targaryen in this context makes sense as GRRM himself said prophecy shouldn't be too literal. When Quaithe sees Connington, Aegon, Tyrion, Victarion and Moqorro, she doesn't see the literal people themselves, but a griffin, a mummer's dragon, a lion, a kraken and a dark flame. I think this interpretation may be wrong. Quaithe is giving Dany the identities of people that are traveling together and the are pairs. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Victarion and Moqorro become traveling companions after Moqorro is fished out from the sea. Tyrion and Connington, traveling together until they were separated. If the mummer's dragon was traveling with Tyrion and Jon Connington, then that's where he would have been mentioned. Instead, he is mentioned in relation with Quentyn when Quaithe is warning Dany against him. Quentyn had recently signed on with the Windblown. And while we are certain of the identities of the kraken (Vic), dark flame (Moqorro), lion (Tyrion), Griffin (Connington), the sun's son (Quentyn), the identity of the mummer's dragon is uncertain, especially since Quaithe does not give him as being a traveling companion of Tyrion and Connington. I think this may be a deviation from your topic, so apologies for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 On 11/7/2018 at 11:49 PM, Fire Eater said: That still doesn't refute me earlier point: people who try to explain the prophecy before it happens get it wrong. It doesn't have to be the person the prophecy refers to who gets it wrong. Dany is bound to hear the prophecy at some point with Moqorro and Marwyn coming. There is nothing you have to back up your argument in that department. Also, the argument is over interpretation of prophecy not actions taken regarding it. You've just taken the argument onto a tangent. AAR refers to a single person, just as the first AA was. Rhaego doesn't fit as a head given he is clearly dead, and can't mount a dragon. Your paralleling with the Bible of the Holy Trinity is reaching IMO, especially, since Daenerys is more likely Moses: wanders through the desert, frees slaves from a civilization know for its pyramids, and taking them to the Promised Land of her ancestors (Westeros). Even Dany instructing the slaves being allowed to take valuables as compensation in Yunkai going with Moses instructing the Hebrews to take articles of gold and silver from the Egyptians. Jon is more the Jesus figure in that he is a promised savior of royal blood, betrayed by his followers, the crown of roses Lyanna had which Ned noted had thorns, being a reference to the crown of thorns Jesus wore, and finally, Jon will be raised from the dead in TWoW. Um no, That doesn't fit the quote you provided from GRRM at all. He was talking about the person who knows about the prophecy and is doing everything in his or her power to avoid it from happening but it ends up happening anyway from something totally unexpected (i.e Cersei) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Marsh Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 On 11/2/2018 at 10:59 AM, Megorova said: Rhaegar could have been granted divorce at Starry Sept in Oldtown. It's not the King's prerogative to grant divorces or to conduct marriage ceremonies. Also it doesn't matter whether Jon looks like Targaryen or not. Baelor Breakspear also didn't looked like Targaryen, but he was King Daeron's oldest son, and thus Crown Prince, and first in line to inherit Targaryen crown. Rhaegar was Crown Prince, thus him and all of his children were in line of Targaryen inheritance prior Aerys' other children. So even little princess Rhaenys, Rhaegar's daughter, had more rights to become Queen of 7K than Dany. This is order of Targaryen inheritance: Aerys Rhaegar Elia's Aegon Lyanna's Jon Rhaenys Viserys Dany Rhaego Rhaenys is prior Viserys, even though she's a girl. Confirmation, that daughters (Rhaenys) have more rights, than uncles (Viserys), and thus aunts also (Dany), is the case of Alys Karstark. You're wrong. Only the king can grant an annulment if the marriage has been consumated. And of course, the marriage to Elia was consumated. The order of succession is as follows because Aerys disinherited Rhaegar in favor of Viserys. Rhaegar was never crowned. Rhaegar never got close to getting crowned. Prince Viserys became King Viserys III on the day Queen Rhaella crowned him on Dragonstone. His heir is his sister, Princess Daenerys. King Aerys II Prince Viserys Princess Daenerys Prince Rhaego That's it. Rhaegar's family and his children got disinherited. Rhaegar never had the legal authority to marry Lyanna. And R + L is such a weak theory to begin with. Even if true, Jon is still a bastard. Rhaegar never had the authority to divorce Elia. A "marriage" to Lyanna can be easily challenged on legal grounds. Oh and Breakspear? There was no doubt as to his identity. There will be plenty with Jon. Besides, Jon is a traitor to the NW and everybody will know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Barbrey Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 14 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: Jon Connington is turning to stone with his greyscale. But he has his own dragon he is intent on revealing. (disclaimer: I believe Aegon is the real deal). Jon has been surrounded with all sorts of metaphors. Jon Snow's thought about Stannis, Mel and Val; He is stone and she is flame. (Jon III, ADWD 10) Val stood on the platform as still as if she had been carved of salt. (Jon III, ADWD 10) I think this interpretation may be wrong. Quaithe is giving Dany the identities of people that are traveling together and the are pairs. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Victarion and Moqorro become traveling companions after Moqorro is fished out from the sea. Tyrion and Connington, traveling together until they were separated. If the mummer's dragon was traveling with Tyrion and Jon Connington, then that's where he would have been mentioned. Instead, he is mentioned in relation with Quentyn when Quaithe is warning Dany against him. Quentyn had recently signed on with the Windblown. And while we are certain of the identities of the kraken (Vic), dark flame (Moqorro), lion (Tyrion), Griffin (Connington), the sun's son (Quentyn), the identity of the mummer's dragon is uncertain, especially since Quaithe does not give him as being a traveling companion of Tyrion and Connington. I think this may be a deviation from your topic, so apologies for that. That's interesting because we were just speculating that the fat man whose fingers had to be cleaved off for his rings was Illyrio. The mummer is Varys, his partner is Illyrio, and if Illyrio is a dragon as some suspect, he did meet up with Quentyn though dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 13 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said: The order of succession is as follows because Aerys disinherited Rhaegar in favor of Viserys. Aerys didn't disinherited Rhaegar. Rhaegar died. And just because Aerys has named Viserys as his heir, doesn't mean, that he disinherited Rhaegar's children. Amongst other reasons, he has chosen Viserys, because Aegon and Rhaenys were too little. For the same reason was overstepped Aerion's Maegor, because he was an infant, at the time of the Great Council in 233. 13 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said: Rhaegar was never crowned. So what? Crown prince Baelor Breakspear also was never crowned. Nevertheless after his death, next in line for Targaryen crown were his son Valarr, then Valarr's two sons, and then Baelor's younger son - Matarys. Only after those four died, next in line, Aerys I, became King. 13 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said: Prince Viserys became King Viserys III on the day Queen Rhaella crowned him on Dragonstone. His heir is his sister, Princess Daenerys. Dany is Viserys' heir, but it's not the same as being next in line for Targaryen crown, if there are other Targaryens there, before Dany. And Rhaegar's children are in inheritance line of Targaryens before Dany. Viserys didn't left a male heir, thus in this case, if there are Targaryen males left from previous heirs, then Dany could be moved further in line, and those males will be before her in line of inheritance. For example, if Aegon V would have died without leaving any sons, then the crown would have passed to Maegor. Same thing with Viserys - he had no male heir, thus the inheritance moves back to Rhaegar's male children - fAegon (if he is really Elia's Aegon), and Jon Snow. And bastards could be crowned Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 The Wall is stone. Melisandre is going through some changes thanks to being there. Getting stronger, undergoing a magic puberty as she transitions from a crone into something truly old. You can feel the heat coming off of her. Wakie, Wakie! Says Jon. With a stab perhaps, or a joint effort. And, umph, behold- - Meslisandre is a dragon. (Once more). Drawn from the stone after a period of incubation. The assertion: during times of low magic tide, when trueform dragons can no longer maintain themselves and are dying off, some of them choose to cast aside their bodies and seek refuge in human form, as this mundane manifestation can be maintained. These are the fire priests. The legit ones who are now manifesting fire magic powers, whom the church of r'hollr always knew to cherish as its most prized members even at low tide because when one of your priests lives for centuries you can piece things together. And they may also have had a hand in forcing some dragons directly into the service of their church by coaxing the initial transmogrification. Though Mel i believe they found after the fact, after a slave had manifested flame magic and had been killed by her terrified masters, they welcomed a befuddled groggy mel into their company. The dragon psyche rides along as a stowaway in the human it attaches to, behaving like an overactive id. The source of Mel's unstable womb shadow crossover birthing powers. (Because mel herself is already an unstable crossover species host.) The dragon psyche is the source of her visions that are so biased against ice magic. We don't know yet if the Others / Weir are truly the enemy of all Life, but in a religion founded by ex- dragons ice magic absolutely would be seen as The Great Other. Well, now you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 23 hours ago, El Guapo said: Um no, That doesn't fit the quote you provided from GRRM at all. He was talking about the person who knows about the prophecy and is doing everything in his or her power to avoid it from happening but it ends up happening anyway from something totally unexpected (i.e Cersei) That's a straw man argument as that quote you highlighted doesn't state that GRRM said that, but was "my earlier point." Please try reading more carefully next time instead of making assumptions. That was an observation from what we've seen in the text: Melisandre says Stannis is AA, Daemon II says an actual dragon will hatch at Whitewalls and Cersei saying Margaery in the YMBQ and Tyrion the valonqar. On 11/9/2018 at 12:00 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said: Jon Connington is turning to stone with his greyscale. But he has his own dragon he is intent on revealing. (disclaimer: I believe Aegon is the real deal). Jon has been surrounded with all sorts of metaphors. Jon Snow's thought about Stannis, Mel and Val; He is stone and she is flame. (Jon III, ADWD 10) Val stood on the platform as still as if she had been carved of salt. (Jon III, ADWD 10) I think this interpretation may be wrong. Quaithe is giving Dany the identities of people that are traveling together and the are pairs. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Victarion and Moqorro become traveling companions after Moqorro is fished out from the sea. Tyrion and Connington, traveling together until they were separated. If the mummer's dragon was traveling with Tyrion and Jon Connington, then that's where he would have been mentioned. Instead, he is mentioned in relation with Quentyn when Quaithe is warning Dany against him. Quentyn had recently signed on with the Windblown. And while we are certain of the identities of the kraken (Vic), dark flame (Moqorro), lion (Tyrion), Griffin (Connington), the sun's son (Quentyn), the identity of the mummer's dragon is uncertain, especially since Quaithe does not give him as being a traveling companion of Tyrion and Connington. I think this may be a deviation from your topic, so apologies for that. I think there is a difference between salt and stone, but I see your point. I think stone works for hidden people at least when it applies to Starks, and Jon is half-Stark. There's nothing that says all the individuals need to be grouped together based on proximity. Quentyn and Aegon are both young suitors intent on marrying Daenerys. Aegon is definitely the mummer's dragon given both his identity and his backer Varys was a mummer. 21 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said: You're wrong. Only the king can grant an annulment if the marriage has been consumated. And of course, the marriage to Elia was consumated. The order of succession is as follows because Aerys disinherited Rhaegar in favor of Viserys. Rhaegar was never crowned. Rhaegar never got close to getting crowned. Prince Viserys became King Viserys III on the day Queen Rhaella crowned him on Dragonstone. His heir is his sister, Princess Daenerys. King Aerys II Prince Viserys Princess Daenerys Prince Rhaego That's it. Rhaegar's family and his children got disinherited. Rhaegar never had the legal authority to marry Lyanna. And R + L is such a weak theory to begin with. Even if true, Jon is still a bastard. Rhaegar never had the authority to divorce Elia. A "marriage" to Lyanna can be easily challenged on legal grounds. Oh and Breakspear? There was no doubt as to his identity. There will be plenty with Jon. Besides, Jon is a traitor to the NW and everybody will know that. Viserys died without issue, and so tradition and precedent would have the crown pass to eldest male heir in the royal succession: Jon. Otherwise, such a decree by Aerys could be set aside by a Great Council. I sincerely doubt R+L's marriage could be easily challenged on legal grounds. Rhaegar had the precedent set by his grandparents, Jaehaerys II and Shaera, of eloping without royal consent, and Rhaenyra and Daemon before them. He also had the precedent set by Aegon the Conqueror (and Maegor) to practice polygamy. Also, you're wrong, the king doesn't set aside marriages, the Faith does, since in this society marriage is always regarded as a sacred, religious union conducted by the septons south of the Neck. If Lyanna and Rhaegar married before a heart tree, that makes setting aside their marriage by the Faith impossible since a marriage by the Old Gods is outside the Faith's jurisdiction. R+L has actually been confirmed in the show, and actually has plenty of evidence behind it. Anyone who opposes it now are the creationists of the fandom. Jon isn't a bastard or the KG wouldn't have been at the ToJ after the fall of KL. LC Hightower's response to why he wasn't on Dragonstone was "We swore a vow." Jaime mentions that same man told him "You swore a vow to guard the king not to judge him." Their vows are first and foremost to guard the king, and that response as to why they weren't on Dragonstone wouldn't have made sense if Jon was a bastard: we're not on Dragonstone to guard the king because we swore a vow to guard the king. Their vows would have had them go to Dragonstone. They didn't need to be at the ToJ, Dayne could simply have had his family send people to look after Lyanna while the KG took a ship to Dragonstone. The only way that response would make sense if is Jon is legitimate, and the royal heir by tradition and succession, especially since in their isolation they didn't hear about Aerys's decree naming Viserys his successor. Jon isn't a traitor to the NW. Bolton was threatening the LC, and if he came to the Wall he would pose a threat to everyone at Castle Black. Yes, it was a mess he got himself into, but he had little other options. He couldn't hand over Val and Stannis's people since it would be a violation of guest right. Jon's identity will be accepted if not in the scenario I provided in the OP, the some other way, or what point is there to giving him a secret royal identity if it isn't going to play a role in the story? If the identity of Cersei's children could be revealed, then so could Jon's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 43 minutes ago, Fire Eater said: R+L has actually been confirmed in the show, and actually has plenty of evidence behind it. Anyone who opposes it now are the creationists of the fandom I guess I need to go ahead and start thumping my bible then. The sword from the stone imagery is definitely in the series. As stated above, Dany drew the dragons forth from their stone eggs, while Brienne is helping draw Jaime from Casterly Rock, as he starts to regain his honor. It hasn't really applied to Jon, yet. I would agree that there is sword imagery with Jon, however. I'm fairly certain that Jon's story arc parallels the arc of the Norse sword Gram, the sword that many agree is the inspiration behind the Sword in the Stone myth. An Odin type character, Mormont, inserts Jon into the Wall (a parallel to Odin trapping Gram inside a tree, Barnstokkr), by making Jon swear an oath to him and the NIght's Watch not to take part in the affairs of the Lords and Kings of Westeros. King Stannis attempts to draw Jon from the Wall, by offering him Winterfell. While the parallel, are the men in the Lord's hall who try without success to draw Gramm from Barnstokkr. Then the author of the Pink Letter (my guess is King Mance) succeeds in freeing Jon from his Oath to the Wall. Our parallel to Sigmund finally drawing Gramm from it's prison. Jon is then stabbed by black clad soldiers, analogous to the sword Gram being broken on the spear of a black clad soldier. I think we'll find that Jon's psyche has probably been split in two. His better half went into Ghost, while his shadow self will be resurrected with his body. In the Volsung saga, the broken sword, Gram, is given to Sigmund's wife for safekeeping, until it can be reforged. When it's reforged it's used by Sigmund's son, Sigurd, to slay the dwarf turned dragon (heh) Fafnir. The sword Gram is finally placed on the funeral pyre between Sigurd and Brynhild. My guess is after Dark Jon's resurrection he takes Winterfell, before at some point finally being reunited with the better half of his soul found within Ghost. It wouldn't surprise me if Jon finds himself in a confrontation with another dwarf turned dragon, Tyrion. But getting back to my original point, the best evidence to try and guess Jon's parentage lies in the story arc that George has crafted for Jon. His primary arc is his conflict between his oath to the Wall and his lust for Winterfell. It's a conflict that continues through ADWD. There is only one possible parentage that really advances this story arc, and it's not being the son of Rhaegar. It's apparent that Jon is of the North. And I think that the myths that George has used to craft the north are Slavic, Celtic, and mostly Norse. The myths I would turn to in regard's to Jon's story arc are the Volsung saga, and specifically the tale of Sigmund and his sister, Siggeir. We have Sigumd's sister trapped in an arranged marriage against her will. We have a slain she-wolf, which follows with Signumd and Siggeir having an incestuous relationship giving birth to Sinflijoti, a mighty hero due to the fact that he has pure, undiluted bloodline of the Volsungs. Later Sinfljoti takes the cursed skin of a wolf, becoming a werewolf. Sigmund takes a new wife, who becomes Sinfifjoti's step mother, who hates her stepson, finally resulting in her poisoning him. The other inspiration is probably Wagner's opera, Ring Cycle. Another incestuous relationship between Siegmund and his sister Sieglinde (also trapped in an unhappy marriage). Another sword trapped in a tree. When the sword is drawn Siegmund and Sieglinde consummate. Siegmund is killed and the sword is broken. A Valkyrie Brunnhilde gathers up both Siegmund's body and the broken sword. The sword is reforged and given to Siegmund and Sieglinde's child, Siegfried. Siegrfired goes on to kill the dwarf turned dragon, Fafnir. And interestingly enough the sword in the Ring Cycle is not named Gram, it's named Nothung. As in Jon knows Nothung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Marsh Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 10 hours ago, Megorova said: Aerys didn't disinherited Rhaegar. Rhaegar died. And just because Aerys has named Viserys as his heir, doesn't mean, that he disinherited Rhaegar's children. Amongst other reasons, he has chosen Viserys, because Aegon and Rhaenys were too little. For the same reason was overstepped Aerion's Maegor, because he was an infant, at the time of the Great Council in 233. So what? Crown prince Baelor Breakspear also was never crowned. Nevertheless after his death, next in line for Targaryen crown were his son Valarr, then Valarr's two sons, and then Baelor's younger son - Matarys. Only after those four died, next in line, Aerys I, became King. Dany is Viserys' heir, but it's not the same as being next in line for Targaryen crown, if there are other Targaryens there, before Dany. And Rhaegar's children are in inheritance line of Targaryens before Dany. Viserys didn't left a male heir, thus in this case, if there are Targaryen males left from previous heirs, then Dany could be moved further in line, and those males will be before her in line of inheritance. For example, if Aegon V would have died without leaving any sons, then the crown would have passed to Maegor. Same thing with Viserys - he had no male heir, thus the inheritance moves back to Rhaegar's male children - fAegon (if he is really Elia's Aegon), and Jon Snow. And bastards could be crowned Kings. Aerys disinherited Rhaegar in favor of Viserys. Viserys was crowned on Dragonstone by Queen Rhaella. That made him King Viserys III and his heir is his little sister, Princess Daenerys. Aerys chose Viserys because he is of pure Targaryen royal blood. Aegon and Rhaenys are half Dornish. Rhaegar, his current children, and his future children got passed over. The new line of succession became Viserys and then Daenerys. Gender is not going to matter in this case. Daenerys is already a queen and a khaleesi. The gender barrier has been broken. She is not going to step aside for some long-faced oathbreaker. I would not want her to. You and the other Jon supporters are putting the cart before the horse. RLJ is a rather weak theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 11 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said: RLJ is a rather weak theory. 11 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said: Gender is not going to matter in this case. Daenerys is already a queen and a khaleesi. Dany, becoming Queen in Slavers Bay, and Khaleesi in Dothraki Sea, won't make her to be automatically accepted by people of Westeros as Queen of 7K. 11 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said: Aerys disinherited Rhaegar in favor of Viserys. Viserys was crowned on Dragonstone by Queen Rhaella. That made him King Viserys III and his heir is his little sister, Princess Daenerys. Aerys chose Viserys because he is of pure Targaryen royal blood. Aegon and Rhaenys are half Dornish. Rhaegar, his current children, and his future children got passed over. The new line of succession became Viserys and then Daenerys. Aerys didn't disinherited Rhaegar, him naming Viserys as his heir is NOT THE SAME THING AS DISINHERITING RHAEGAR. The Great Council of 233 didn't disinherited Maegor, they passed over him, because he was just a baby, and thus couldn't be King. But if Aegon V would have died without male heirs, then the crown would have passed back to Maegor. Same thing with Viserys - if he has no male heirs, then the crown passes back to Rhaegar's male children. In case with Viserys, Aerys was deciding on his own, who's going to be next King of 7K. But that was just because he had no active Small Council at that time, and there was no one, who could have summoned a Great Council, to decide those things. But in current circumstances, when there is an acting government in 7K, when Dany or fAegon will arrive to Westeros, and when it will be revealed, that Jon is Rhaegar's son, then there will be gathered a Great Council, and all lords of 7K will be deciding, which one out of those three, should be crowned as next ruler of 7K. "Aerys chose Viserys because he is of pure Targaryen royal blood. Aegon and Rhaenys are half Dornish." - And pure blood or not, that sort of things wouldn't be a decisive factor for naming a King (or a Queen). Robert Baratheon was only 1/8 Targaryen. Baelor Breakspear was half-Targaryen half-Dornish. His own children, Valarr and Matarys, were 1/4 Targaryens, and Valarr's children were only 1/8 Targaryens, though it was them, who was next in line to be Kings, not their more pureblooded relatives, until they died, and the crown has passed to those relatives (but not because of their purer blood, but because they were next in line). Great Council will be deciding, who's going to be next King/Queen of 7K. Or maybe it will be decided by Small Council. Because, even when Robert has taken Targaryen throne by force, by right of conquest, even he still needed agreement of government, and justification of him getting Targaryen crown. Main argument in his favour was, that he was partially Targaryen, thru his paternal grandmother, Rhaelle Targaryen. To become King, isn't enough just to defeat the previous King. People just won't accept laws and governing of this new King, unless he will be legalized in some official manner. Otherwise they will just rise against this conqueror and overthrow him, and name their own King. How it happened in Yuunkai or Astapor, after Dany's departure to Meereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 On 11/9/2018 at 7:00 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said: I think this interpretation may be wrong. Quaithe is giving Dany the identities of people that are traveling together and the are pairs. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Victarion and Moqorro become traveling companions after Moqorro is fished out from the sea. Tyrion and Connington, traveling together until they were separated. If the mummer's dragon was traveling with Tyrion and Jon Connington, then that's where he would have been mentioned. Instead, he is mentioned in relation with Quentyn when Quaithe is warning Dany against him. Maybe Quaithe has placed them in pairs, not based on with whom are they traveling, but what they want from Dany. Victarion and Moqorro want to get Dany's dragons. Tyrion and JonCon want to get from Dany her political support and her armies. fAegon and Quentyn wanted to marry with Dany. Kraken and dark flame - magic; lion and griffin - power (political and military); the sun's son and the mummer's dragon - marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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