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Winterfell - the Heart of Summer?


Lady Barbrey

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4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Actually, something occurred to me that I forgot to post about, that the oath of fealty from House Reed may have to do with the magic of the crannogs and elements of their magic as opposed to something that's super complicated.

"Once there was a curious lad who lived in the Neck. He was small like crannogmen, but brave and smart and strong as well. He grew up hunting and fishing and, climbing trees, and learned all the magics of my people."
Bran was almost certain he never heard this story. "Did he have green dreams like Jojen?"
"No," said Meera, "but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear." (Bran II, ASOS 24)

The oath begins with swearing by "earth and water," and Meera alleges that Howland who learned the magics of her people could change earth to water and water to earth and she continues about other things her father is presumably able to do. 

Maybe that's what the children of the forest did with the Arm of Dorne and in the Neck, tried to turn earth to water as opposed to trying to create some cataclysm to break the land apart.

Something struck me wrong with the quote.  It was merely a strange kinda "huh" moment. I thought to myself, no, people do not doctor the quotes they use to support a line of thought they are trying to validate.   So I looked at the textual quote.

A Storm of Swords - Bran II     Just when Bran began to think that she wasn't going to tell the story after all, she began, "Once there was a curious lad who lived in the Neck. He was small like all crannogmen, but brave and smart and strong as well. He grew up hunting and fishing and climbing trees, and learned all the magics of my people."

One word removed from a line of conversation can change the context. Perhaps it was a error. I sometimes leave out a word when I type posts. In this instance when I copy directly from the search site I do not make that mistake.

In context He was small like crannogmen, the omission of the word ALL changes the context --- He was small like all crannogmen is different than --- He was small like crannogmen and learned the magics of my people.

Nit picky I know. It plucked my nerve. :tantrum:

:smoking:

 

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9 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

One word removed from a line of conversation can change the context. Perhaps it was a error. I sometimes leave out a word when I type posts. In this instance when I copy directly from the search site I do not make that mistake.

An honest mistake, I promise. I have the quotes down in a spreadsheet, so I copied it directly from there instead of looking for the quote the book which I did not have access to. I forgot a word when I typed the quote originally. 

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3 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

An honest mistake, I promise. I have the quotes down in a spreadsheet, so I copied it directly from there instead of looking for the quote the book which I did not have access to. I forgot a word when I typed the quote originally. 

:cheers:       Mistakes happen. I have made more than my fair share.    :grouphug:

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On 11/6/2018 at 9:31 PM, Lady Barbrey said:

 Sansa is being indoctrinated - winter child seduced by solar court and the big red rose of romance.  Reverse Persephone.  That rose is her pomegranate seed.

Nice.   And Persephone learned to split her time and live in the other realm effectively.  Because that's what was needed.   The starks need Sansa as their toe in the southron pool, playing that game too, so there's an ice and fire swirl and not more isolation, because...better.  I don't like the notion of entire POVs reversing course at the end.  Bran should make his supernatural project work, Sansa should make her sun court endeavor pay off.     

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Lets get to the nitty gritty.

I call BS.

When I read a a frekking saga I expect it to make sense. I expect the story to make sense in some form or fashion.

If I need extra material to make sense of the story --- :ack:

If when I read a story I need to think of every frekking mythological or ancient historical character then it is hogwash not Hogwarts.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Lets get to the nitty gritty.

I call BS.

When I read a a frekking saga I expect it to make sense. I expect the story to make sense in some form or fashion.

If I need extra material to make sense of the story --- :ack:

If when I read a story I need to think of every frekking mythological or ancient historical character then it is hogwash not Hogwarts.

 

 

I don't think anyone needs to know any of this to understand the story, but understanding the thematic elements at play might provide some insight into GRRM's thinking and possibly even hints about what he is planning.

But mostly it's just fun and frankly some of are just spinning our wheels until we get new material. Even if a particular line of thought turns out to be total BS, or we end up taking the symbolism several steps too far or read too much into certain historical similarities it keeps a little bit of the excitement alive. After all the Night is long... so very very long...

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16 hours ago, hiemal said:

but understanding the thematic elements at play might provide some insight into GRRM's thinking and possibly even hints about what he is planning.

I was a bit rude.

the·mat·ic       having or relating to subjects or a particular subject,  belonging to, relating to, or denoting the theme of a sentence ,  a body of topics for study or discussion.

It can be enjoyable to pull reference from literary material to explain a thought.  As in an analogy, comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

BUT martin has written a story. Five books with supplementary material. There is so much information I do not need to make up stuff. 

Yeah, I now know that I shoulda stayed out  of this thread.

17 hours ago, hiemal said:

Even if a particular line of thought turns out to be total BS, or we end up taking the symbolism several steps too far or read too much into certain historical similarities it keeps a little bit of the excitement alive. After all the Night is long... so very very long...

Yes, I agree the long night is long. Even though I have not experienced it.

A Game of Thrones - Bran I   It made Bran's skin prickle to think of it. He remembered the hearth tales Old Nan told them. The wildlings were cruel men, she said, slavers and slayers and thieves. They consorted with giants and ghouls, stole girl children in the dead of night, and drank blood from polished horns. And their women lay with the Others in the Long Night to sire terrible half-human children.

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I was a bit rude.

the·mat·ic       having or relating to subjects or a particular subject,  belonging to, relating to, or denoting the theme of a sentence ,  a body of topics for study or discussion.

It can be enjoyable to pull reference from literary material to explain a thought.  As in an analogy, comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

BUT martin has written a story. Five books with supplementary material. There is so much information I do not need to make up stuff. 

Yeah, I now know that I shoulda stayed out  of this thread.

You're just saying what everybody thinks sometimes.

30 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Yes, I agree the long night is long. Even though I have not experienced it.

I meant the night that will end when the next novel finally sees the light of day...

 

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