Jump to content

Latest Lightbringer Bullcrap Dumping Ground


Recommended Posts

 

If there was a Dark Prometheus who stole the coldfire of the Others for humanity to use..... and the reason Starks had to be at Winterfell always is because lightbringer brings the light back into the eyes of the dead.  It grants the weilder the Otherish power of resurrection, and it was meant to empower Winterfell's valhalla crypts to rise as humanity's zombie hoard answer to Winter's coming.   The sword would rally them.  Now THAT's an armageddon sword worthy of being mythologized in a world where one super swordsman isn't gonna turn the tide against thousands of the dead, so why bother going on about a "regular" flaming sword unless it's metaphorical for using all of humanity as a weapon.   Can that be the blade Bloodraven is holding onto, then?   He'd be a nice lady of the lake, with his smooth complexion and all.

 

2.  This armageddon sword is a big deal, so we've heard..  Wielding the armageddon sword could mean gaining full control over the weirnet and commanding the trees to war.   Pull a dragon out of stone by pulling Bloodraven out of a stony tree.

2.5.   Trees are the true enemy, so burn them all with your flaming sword, for only magic fire burns down all the way into rhe magic roots of the weir, meaning it won't grow back again.  Hmmmm, apparently the Last Hero stopped before rooting them all out.  What does our Hero need to do differently to stop the 1,000 year regrowth cycle this time?! 

3.  Alternate visions of the sword and its use to impale spouses include the Dong Sword interpretations that argue the best way to end eternal blood fueds is by joining bloodlines.   

Things like that.   Whatever seems trendy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, of course, notice the heavy fire imagery associated with the talking penis:

Quote

With a long hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier.  The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

And we all know swords are phallic objects.  It just stands to reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

 

If there was a Dark Prometheus who stole the coldfire of the Others for humanity to use..... and the reason Starks had to be at Winterfell always is because lightbringer brings the light back into the eyes of the dead.  It grants the weilder the Otherish power of resurrection, and it was meant to empower Winterfell's valhalla crypts to rise as humanity's zombie hoard answer to Winter's coming.   The sword would rally them.  Now THAT's an armageddon sword worthy of being mythologized in a world where one super swordsman isn't gonna turn the tide against thousands of the dead, so why bother going on about a "regular" flaming sword unless it's metaphorical for using all of humanity as a weapon.   Can that be the blade Bloodraven is holding onto, then?   He'd be a nice lady of the lake, with his smooth complexion and all.

I appreciate glibness and brevity is the soul of wit but this might be a bit tinfoil-machine-gun for most folks, but...

I'm guessing you mean Night's King as the Dark Prometheous, and the original Ice as the sword?

6 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

2.  This armageddon sword is a big deal, so we've heard..  Wielding the armageddon sword could mean gaining full control over the weirnet and commanding the trees to war.   Pull a dragon out of stone by pulling Bloodraven out of a stony tree.

Possibly? Or the sword could be a tool in an entirely other belt, a sword from an icier stone?

6 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

2.5.   Trees are the true enemy, so burn them all with your flaming sword, for only magic fire burns down all the way into rhe magic roots of the weir, meaning it won't grow back again.  Hmmmm, apparently the Last Hero stopped before rooting them all out.  What does our Hero need to do differently to stop the 1,000 year regrowth cycle this time?!

I think for this to work, Azor Ahai and the Last Hero would have to be the same person? They could be, but but their roles seem different? LH only gained his objective with the help of CotF. AA over in Essos, however, seems like quite the firebug and there don't seem to be any weirwoods over there any more so...

 

6 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

3.  Alternate visions of the sword and its use to impale spouses include the Dong Sword interpretations that argue the best way to end eternal blood fueds is by joining bloodlines.  

Except between the Brackens and Blackwoods, apparently, but in general that's a good idea.

6 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Things like that.   Whatever seems trendy.

I don't know about trendy, but as for dong swords and grailginas, bloodlines and their deliberate manipulation I think that's definitely the right formula for untangling the Lightbringer Incident.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Also, of course, notice the heavy fire imagery associated with the talking penis:

And we all know swords are phallic objects.  It just stands to reason.

I'm almost positive anything a talking penis said would be a lie. It just stands to reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, hiemal said:

I'm guessing you mean Night's King as the Dark Prometheous, and the original Ice as the sword?

No I associate the night king with bringing us problems that weren't so beneficial.    The last hero is the one who sounds more like they could've gone on a journey to steal coldfire.  And us having it would be why people stopped believing in heroes, but it also worked well enough that no more heroes were needed.  Hence, the Last.

You'd think Ice would be the sword to activate the crypts, but maybe the Children kept us from having both the lock and the key to this armageddon weapon, so it couldn't be used in petty human on human warring.  Also, people yammer about different swords being the big deal swords, so I was feeling peer pressured into going with the one Bloodraven's got, that dark sis or whichever.  The bright azor associations joining in to forge a fire and ice sword that can only be used by someone with both fire And ice blood.   So Others can't grab it back from our champ for an easy win.  They'd be all, "It burns!  What a world!"   

And with the azor Fire magic added to the coldfire core, the North's crypt kings would rise as regal warm zombies who'd remember something of themselves and not just do that hungry- for- brains noise you get from the Walkers' zombies.  So, like, the 2 parts of Ice could be separately enchanted with Ice and Fire magic, and then Jaime could double weild them like a Euro Ninja.

Quote

Or the sword could be a tool in an entirely other belt, a sword from an icier stone?

Now i'm picturing the Others as every hero who ever tried and failed to pull the Icecalibur (TM) out of the glacier and was transformed into a monster by its curse.  [Internet High five!]

 

If the series does conclude with Varys' junk narrating the final voiceover and lying to us outright, a lot of people will be sore about that.  But you know what, a lot of studio execs would immediately begin working on a knockoff movie featuring the loquacious loins of livermore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Version one. Lightbringer was the original enchanted fire sword that the guy remembered as Azor Ahai/ the last hero wielded during the first Long Night. And it was probably Dawn. Apart from the usefulness such an item would have in those conditions, it was not otherwise significant, but it was memorable and became the stuff of legend.

In conjunction or independently from 1, the sword is Dawn and needs to be reignited in the right chests and then stabbed in the Heart of Winter to neutralize it. 

I don't see why the kings of Winter would need to be raised physically. It isn't as if there is a lack of fresh corpses. I do think that their shades and their knowledge and experience will be raised but I don't think there are any props required. Bran and maybe Arya should be able to have a chat with their ancestors with nothing more than an offering of fresh blood. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, we've already got a couple of "Armageddon horns" - why not an "Armageddon sword"? Icecaliber(tm)! I love it!

And no, it's not Dawn. Dawn was forged from the heart of a fallen star. In Westeros, not Asshai. Nothing in the tale about stabbing lions and spouses through their hearts as a quenching bath, either. Frankly, that sounds sick. Also, nothing about Dawn being constantly hot and flaming. What, did Art Dayne have asbestos gauntlets? What did his scabbard look like?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. But a talking cock ... now that's something! Particularly as narrator. Certainly more different and interesting than an elderly Maester Samwell laboriously penning his memoirs in a dusty raven's rookery. Remember, George RR is nothing but different and interesting. If you think this is going to have a happy ending, you've opened the wrong book.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

No I associate the night king with bringing us problems that weren't so beneficial.   

I'm not sure magic is ever ultimately beneficial.

18 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

  The last hero is the one who sounds more like they could've gone on a journey to steal coldfire.  And us having it would be why people stopped believing in heroes, but it also worked well enough that no more heroes were needed.  Hence, the Last.

The two ideas aren't contradictory. NK came around some time after the LH; twelvel Lords Commander had come and gone so I think its probable there was at least a century or so between the Battle for the Dawn and Night's King so I think it is reasonable to hypothesize that if the LH stole something during this event the possible Stark Lord Commander who pursued and stole Night's Queen's heart (if Old Nan is to be believed) also stole back Ice or some other chain of events that puts Ice back wherever it needs to be.

And people haven't stopped believing in heroes- only heroes, villains, and scholars are so afflicted it seems to me. I think in this case "Last" refers to being the last man standing, or breathing anyways, but perhaps Bran will be the ultimate hero?

18 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

You'd think Ice would be the sword to activate the crypts, but maybe the Children kept us from having both the lock and the key to this armageddon weapon, so it couldn't be used in petty human on human warring.  Also, people yammer about different swords being the big deal swords, so I was feeling peer pressured into going with the one Bloodraven's got, that dark sis or whichever.  The bright azor associations joining in to forge a fire and ice sword that can only be used by someone with both fire And ice blood.   So Others can't grab it back from our champ for an easy win.  They'd be all, "It burns!  What a world!"  

Dark Sister is of the flames like her brother, Blackfyre. I think Ice fits this bill nicely, though. We know almost nothing about the original blade or how it was lost. The name "the Battle for the Dawn suggests the either there is a third sword involved or that Ice may have changed natures and names at some point.

18 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

And with the azor Fire magic added to the coldfire core, the North's crypt kings would rise as regal warm zombies who'd remember something of themselves and not just do that hungry- for- brains noise you get from the Walkers' zombies.  So, like, the 2 parts of Ice could be separately enchanted with Ice and Fire magic, and then Jaime could double weild them like a Euro Ninja.

If he grew another hand? It seems to me that bringing back any kind of zombie or revenant is going to be subject to severe limitations. It seems antithetical to the cycle of life and the sort of thing that got this world into this mess in the first place.

18 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Now i'm picturing the Others as every hero who ever tried and failed to pull the Icecalibur (TM) out of the glacier and was transformed into a monster by its curse.  [Internet High five!]

Nice.

Or perhaps the failed questors become aware revenants like Coldhands or constructs like the Black Gate?

18 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

If the series does conclude with Varys' junk narrating the final voiceover and lying to us outright, a lot of people will be sore about that.  But you know what, a lot of studio execs would immediately begin working on a knockoff movie featuring the loquacious loins of livermore.

Never trust anything a penis tells you- I know I've gotten some pretty bad advice on that front. That would certainly take sexposition to a new and disturbing place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5.

Quote

There is also a myth where the thunder god Perkune splits the moon in half with a sword, so Perkune is R'hllor and the red sword of heroes is the weirwood comet.

That'd qualify as a legendary blade equal to legions of undead ,  clearing the way to put them back in their place via the return of Summer.   A terraforming Lightbringer.  Does one get a handheld  remote controller (a sword mayhaps) for signaling this heavenly asteroid to smash into the lion of night to bust up the eclipse?   And please can the term "weirwood comet" be shorthand for an asteroid composed of supernatural metals not indiginous to Planetos, in other words not a huge flying tree but a huge brick of the same strange substance that separately crash landed and was then ingested by weirwoods to make them woke. 

 Because I do recall past discussion on this beloved website that included Weirwood trees rocket launching themselves up into the sky like popcorn kernals popping with explosive force to spread their kind of life to other planets in an act of panspermia,  and of course this was also an act of self defense for Planetos, as the trees comet-slammed home into the eclipse like treesperms impregnating the ovum of abyssal night to give birth to the Dawn. 

 The reason one asks is because it's easier to embrace the first option's more plausible cthulian stone asteroid as part of a serious celestial saga, while the second option is easier to enjoy, certainly, but it kind of busts up the whole brooding mood of the series by injecting such an absurd visual as kamakaze trees using advanced propulsion techniques.

Oh wait.  I get it.  The comet is a second advanced ship set on a collision course with the mothership causing the eclipse.   So, like the end of the movie Prometheus.  So there's a resistance movement in space.  But neither spaceship is really the good guys, judging from how both Ice and Fire like to take things too far when we see them doing their thing planetside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

6.   Jaime is the Promised Prince.  So Cercei can have a purpose after all.  (Empowering Jaime's magic as she flames up).

This concludes the long running mystery of who saves the wirld.   I feel good about the twins being fathered by aerys.   We see Cercei's fire craving and Jaime becoming what the realm needs.  So that's a wrap.   Case closed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

 7.

Trending now:  the Weirs genetically engineered the Children to serve as their ....servitors.   A species of protectors and worshippers and busywork doers to handle the many chores that crop up in the quick-moving surface world.  The children ensured the trees could go on having their deep thoughts for ages largely uninterrupted, in their rooty underworld where not much happens, not that we can comprehend anyway.   

Okay, now let's give this idea over to me and take it for a spin to see where we end up:

To change the morphology of the Children, the trees employed blood magic.   The oldest magic, we hear it said.  Genetic manipulation.  Give Us access to your blood, we blend our paste, feed it back to you, we're bonded in purpose, and as we're timeless your purpose is now decided forever.  Species enslavement, by design, with no end date built in, no escape. 

The First Men saw this arrangement and kind of puzzled it through.  Maybe humanity's comprehension of these things was "aided" when the trees dropped some hints on us: we saw evidence that we were next.  The trees were threatened by the new invasion of mankind and began moving to alter us into something more docile, more under their green thumb.   

And Because we had blood, we were vulnerable to their blood magic.  Tree Sap magic.  The common language between trees and people who both have veins.

You see where this is going?   Humanity, to properly refute this weir attack on the very soul of our species, needed to purge itself of blood.  All blood.  Some of us, anyway, needed to be made bloodless.   They went cold.  They remade themselves into the Others.  They went to a place beyond the trees' control, both geographically and in terms of their bodies' physical makeup. 

They... did whatever needed doing to change the trees minds about us.  The Walkers existed as a grand and troublesome magic loophole.  They were immune to the weirnet predations, and could potentially wipe out the weirnet by brute force.... or freeze it over.  Convert it to their control.  (The Vision of 1000 shivering greenseers).  The weirs paused.  Reconsidered.  What other path to peace was there besides blood-magicking us into a servitor species?   They had the children offer humans the Pact.  Mankind would be allowed to stay free and keep its current species identity.....if it solemnly promised to adopt the old gods' forest religion built around doing no harm to the trees.  We accepted.

The long night?   That was spurred by events that happened overseas in Essos.   But it got dark over here too, and the Others became like crazed Florida Men on bath salts, they went nuts on the human population when the darkness allowed them to expand and stay and dominate.   And they took such full advantage of this opportunity to gangbang humanity because?....they were betrayed, abandoned, obsolete after the Pact.  They'd literally been left out in the Cold.  So they visited their pain on us.   The trees and children offered to help fix our fuckup by loaning giants as laborers on a great Wall to shield the realms of men from the Others, for whom the trees accepted some responsibility, as the Others were the byproduct of the messy magic struggle over Humanity's destiny.

Re: Lightbringer?    Shit.  This one wasn't about Lightbringer at all, huh?   My bad.   Here you go:  the main Lightbringer events would have been Essosi, because that's where the Shadow needed to be fought back against.  Ahai did that, leaving the Shadow cut down to just a nub.  @Asshai.   But if the heart of winter was also one of the axis powers during the long night, I can see there being a need to "root" something out in the North too.  To get the cold eerie blue pilot light of westeros' magic pole burning pure again.  And it looks like someone didn't quite finish the job. Or, like weeds, Malice simply grew back again.   

Maybe the Others require Lightbringer to heal their curse and release them from the grip of Malice, the last vestige of the Shadow purged at last from where it took hold in them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/21/2019 at 2:01 PM, The Mother of The Others said:

Mankind would be allowed to stay free and keep its current species identity.....if it solemnly promised to adopt the old gods' forest religion built around doing no harm to the trees.  We accepted.

 

One of the CotF should totally be named Lorax.

 I think Dawn is Ice (original Ice) and is the sword of the Great Other, taken from him and given to the Daynes for safe-keeping because if the Others ever get as far south as Starfall, humanity is screwed anyway and he may as well have his sword back. 

Never bought that whole bit about House Stark losing the sword. No way do you misplace your ancestral weapon like that. It's not like one of them went to Valyria and dropped it (cough, Lannisters, cough). Otherwise we have to imagine this whole scene where some elderly relative is looking at one of the Stark boys and saying, with escalating decibels, "What do you mean you don't know where the sword is? You LOST it?! The sword that's been in our family for thousands of years? The sword that helped defeat the Others and end the Long Night? That sword? Are you telling me that after generations of Starks protecting and cherishing that sword, you just set it down somewhere and you can't remember where?"

Now about Lightbringer. If it existed, and it was a sword, what if it's broken, or deactivated. Will they have to try killing various people to get it to work again? They're fighting to save all of life on earth and "only death can pay for life." Not sure killing the undead will count for that transaction so it could take them a while to figure this out.

On 11/1/2018 at 5:07 PM, The Mother of The Others said:

   And please can the term "weirwood comet" be shorthand for an asteroid composed of supernatural metals not indiginous to Planetos, in other words not a huge flying tree but a huge brick of the same strange substance that separately crash landed and was then ingested by weirwoods to make them woke. 

 

Oh, kind of like something that might be considered fallen star. And maybe a special sword could be forged from it? I'm still 50/50 on whether that star was actually a dragon named Nissa. I'm not getting into the morality of inter-species relationships in ancient Westerosi history, but it's possible the Asshai'i got a few details wrong about the story. You know, you repeat something to someone, and they tell someone else, and a few thousand years later a blacksmith saved the world by killing a lion and murdering his wife (who apparently enjoyed it) to make a magic sword that apparently single-bladedly won a war against a far more murdery ice horde. 

Also, Icecalibur (TM) is awesome.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...