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What Do You Think Cultural Appropriation Is?

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On 11/9/2018 at 5:18 PM, SweetPea said:

All of the details you mention are irrelevant when it comes to the question: is group A better at said thing than group B? It's a yes or no question, and you can answer it without exploring the reasons why. If you take a healthy man and a man with Alzheimers, the one with the Alzheimers is going to do worse on memory tests. The fact that he does worse because he has Alzheimers, doesn't negate the truth that he does worse. Is it immoral to say that? I don't think so, it's a simple observation. But it seems that some people would disagree with that, the types of people who like to be offended, who might proclaim that I must hate people with Alzheimers for making that observation. The types of people who would be offended that I'm racist against whites if I say Kenyans are better sprinters than whites, or that Asians are better at math than whites and...  oh wait, they wouldn't. They're hypocrites, they don't have standards, they're only offended when you make statements about certain groups of people.

First of all, you picked the wrong example. Kenyans are actually not that good sprinters. I can't say for sure but I think that more white sprinters have taken part in major competition finals than Kenyan sprinters. Kenyans (and Ethiopians) do dominate long distance running though, due to a combination of genetics and their culture.

Let's not forget that there's no such thing as "whites" in the first place since Europe is a melting pot of cultures and people with different heritage so there's no "one size fits all" label to properly describe them all. Add Caucasian people from the rest of the world and the variety increases significantly. All that goes even more for "Asians" since they inhabit the biggest continent and make the majority of the world's population. Differences between North and South Koreans are huge, let alone differences between Arabs and Japanese, Afghan and Thai etc.

Healthy man vs man with Alzheimer's comparison is so silly I'm not even going to get into that discussion.

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7 hours ago, baxus said:

Differences between North and South Koreans are huge

Um. I really hope you only mean culturally, given that Sweet Pea was implying a genetic argument. There are literally still living siblings on both sides of that border.

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On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:44 PM, Darth Richard II said:

It’s a tough thing to define.

And that's a "fact," Jack.

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 9:55 PM, The Anti-Targ said:

The thing that strikes me, when travelling through the USA, is that the only time I've seen First Nations representation out in public is a statue of an "Indian chief" outside the entrance to tobacconist shops. I wonder how First Nations people feel about the main public imagery in mainstream USA being associated with the sale of cancer sticks?

I think the link between the "Indian Chief" carvings which stood outside tobacco shops originally referenced back to tobacco's original usage by the native people of North and South America.  (More North than South.)

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 5:49 PM, DMC said:

Is there a retreat emoji?

Yes.  And a good one.

:leaving: 

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On 11/9/2018 at 10:11 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Hey now, don’t forget us Jews. We always rank at the top with you guys too. I mean, how else did we get to the point where we run the world? Being the chosen people wasn’t going to do it by itself!   

I had this conversation in Asia three times-

“why your hair so curly?”

”I have Jewish family”

”wow, you must be so clever!”

 

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On 11/10/2018 at 3:41 AM, Darth Richard II said:

This is where I put on my “um actually hat” and point out the term gyp doesn’t actually come from gypsies, it’s actually the other way around, they got the nick name gypsies cause of racist misconceptions about them. Abd don’t get me wrong it’s awful and internalizrd racism is awful, but that’s one of those things where my OCD kicks in and I have to correct people.

Interesting, thanks.  The first time I heard the term gyp was a few months ago when I was listening to a podcast by Brandon Sanderson. He accidentally used that term and later apologized, saying it was a commonly used word where he grew up, and he only recently realized it could be offensive to some people.

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On 11/9/2018 at 9:13 PM, Gertrude said:

I had always thought the word Gypsy came from the (false) belief that the Roma originated in Egypt. I think the French called them Bohemien for the same reason (thought they came from Bohemia).

You are correct.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/Gypsy#etymonline_v_14411

And the idea that "Gypsy" was derived from "gyp" rather than vice versa is also incorrect, as the earliest example of "gyp" as a verb is from 1794 while the earliest examples of the noun "Gypsy" are from around 1600.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/gyp#etymonline_v_14409

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On 11/11/2018 at 6:49 AM, AverageGuy said:

Um. I really hope you only mean culturally, given that Sweet Pea was implying a genetic argument. There are literally still living siblings on both sides of that border.

Of course I meant culturally. I mean, it's certain that an ethnic group will share genetics with their neighbours even when they're not basically the same people divided by imaginary line on a map and a lot of machine guns "guarding" that line.

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25 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I would never want to give anything the Daily Beast says any validation, and that article I'd say was bordering on a bit racist? 

Can't we all just get along and if you want to have an 'urban aesthetic' it doesn't mean that you are pretending you are from another race. Surely dividing everyone and everything along racial lines is exactly the sort of thing we want to be getting away from?

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

I would never want to give anything the Daily Beast says any validation, and that article I'd say was bordering on a bit racist? 

Can't we all just get along and if you want to have an 'urban aesthetic' it doesn't mean that you are pretending you are from another race. Surely dividing everyone and everything along racial lines is exactly the sort of thing we want to be getting away from?

It's not about dividing things along racial lines - it's about recognizing the history and context.  In the US some people of black or mixed heritage would pass as white, not because they liked the aesthetic, but because it afforded them basic human rights.  

So when a white person does this today, it's at best ignorantly tone deaf, and at worst super fucked up.  

And yeah it would be great if we 'could all just get along' but it's kind of difficult when white people have pillaged the cool shit from black culture while at the same time treating them as second class citizens and dehumanizing them and murdering them.  And this shit is still going on today, see the election nonsense in Georgia and how brazen the white power douchebags have become in the last 18 months.  See the treatment of black people by the police.

Edited by larrytheimp
Clarity

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4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I would never want to give anything the Daily Beast says any validation, and that article I'd say was bordering on a bit racist? 

Can't we all just get along and if you want to have an 'urban aesthetic' it doesn't mean that you are pretending you are from another race. Surely dividing everyone and everything along racial lines is exactly the sort of thing we want to be getting away from?

Well, in my case, not knowing what to think about this -- one thing I do know I don't think is what you said.

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9 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

It's not about dividing things along racial lines - it's about recognizing the history and context.  In the US some people of black or mixed heritage would pass as white, not because they liked the aesthetic, but because it afforded them basic human rights.  

So when a white person does this today, it's at best ignorantly tone deaf, and at worst super fucked up.  

And yeah it would be great if we 'could all just get along' but it's kind of difficult when white people have pillaged the cool shit from black culture while at the same time treating them as second class citizens and dehumanizing them and murdering them.  And this shit is still going on today, see the election nonsense in Georgia and how brazen the white power douchebags have become in the last 18 months.  See the treatment of black people by the police.

Ok I take what you are saying. But at the same time I cannot imagine any scenario where racial harmony will improve over the next few years whilst people are making land grabs on cultural elements along arbitrarily defined racial lines.

I would suggest that it would only make things worse and is far from helpful when it comes to creating a world where we aren’t firstly defined by our race.

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Hi,

I consider that we are all equals. For example, every country I go I try at least to know how to say 'hi, good buy, thank you.' I appreciate people that do count of other traditions and try at least to please other people's nations with at least 5 words in their language. 

 

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42 minutes ago, Musidn said:

Hi,

I consider that we are all equals. For example, every country I go I try at least to know how to say 'hi, good buy, thank you.' I appreciate people that do count of other traditions and try at least to please other people's nations with at least 5 words in their language. 

 

Hopefully that is the point we can all get to. Rather than bringing up historic grievances in a tit for tat manner, we can look at how a potential future would be. 

Coming from the UK I find talk of cultural appropriation pretty odd. I grew up around London, every single person I knew was from a different background. We all shared similar values and liked similar cultural elements. For instance, lots of my friends were into US hip hop and R&B. Some were black, some were indian, some asian, some arabic, some white but they all dressed the same and acted the same. Which one of those had the most right to that culture? Was it the black guys? They had never even been to America, and had grown up in a distinctly middle class background. Was it the white guys, the asian guys? 

See its very complex, and on the other hand slightly ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Hopefully that is the point we can all get to. Rather than bringing up historic grievances in a tit for tat manner, we can look at how a potential future would be. 

Coming from the UK I find talk of cultural appropriation pretty odd. I grew up around London, every single person I knew was from a different background. We all shared similar values and liked similar cultural elements. For instance, lots of my friends were into US hip hop and R&B. Some were black, some were indian, some asian, some arabic, some white but they all dressed the same and acted the same. Which one of those had the most right to that culture? Was it the black guys? They had never even been to America, and had grown up in a distinctly middle class background. Was it the white guys, the asian guys? 

See its very complex, and on the other hand slightly ridiculous. 

You dont understand what you are talking about, and it seems you dont want to learn. 

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2 minutes ago, Week said:

It's your responsibility to educate yourself if you want to avoid sounding ignorant on a topic.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073P53DVL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_Uqx9BbEQHBRGE

I'd appreciate if you would simply answer why you think what I am saying is wrong rather than assuming I don't know what I am talking about.. It might be that I simply disagree with what you are saying.

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3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I'd appreciate if you would simply answer why you think what I am saying is wrong rather than assuming I don't know what I am talking about.. It might be that I simply disagree with what you are saying.

If you read the thread and still think that your post is an contribution to the discussion -- then I don't know what to tell you. Read the thread and maybe read a book or some other background on the topic.

You didn't say anything of any substance to agree or disagree with.

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