most tragic character

[TheThreeEyedCow]

On 11/2/2018 at 3:25 PM, zandru said:

If Bran can pop out of weirwood trees all over the 7 Kingdoms and operate birds, Arya is probably capable of guiding Nymeria's actions from Essos.

 

Oooh, I've never considered her just remotely operating Nymeria whilst she herself remained out of the way in Braavos. During her wolf-dreams, I always saw Arya as a backseat driver, so-to-speak. 

...............

Maybe it's not the most tragic. But I remember feeling quite sad for Aerys Oakheart. He was an ok guy who made some shitty choices. But tried to die with honour all the same. But it wasn't the sort of honour that the realm or maybe even Arianne would recognise. It was a personal honour that he rationalised to himself just before he died. 

[Darth Sidious]

19 hours ago, Victor Newman said:

I agree with everything said here.  But Theon has the edge in this contest.  Theon is more tragic than Jon.  It's close though.   

They are both morons but Theon is the more tragic character.  Jon died quickly and only suffered a few moments.  Theon lived a life of hell under Ramsay.

[Sigella]

On 11/23/2018 at 5:55 AM, Victor Newman said:

Not really.  He would prefer that kind of life to the responsibilities of ruling.  He's a bookish guy who needed to stay away from politics.  

The only thing sad about his death is that he never got a chance to meet Daenerys Targaryen.  He died peacefully and non-violently.  That's good in this story.  He died of natural causes.  Old age.

Yeah no, not horrible like that. There are way gorier deaths.

But Aemon has such an emptiness and futility to him that those others lack. His fate, growing so old no one knows who he is, spending decade after decade in the cold bleakness whilst going blind, then dying from a cold he got because he liked sitting out in the rain so much... It has a special soul crushing existential aspect that sits well with me personally :) 

[Big P]

Sigella.  You know where his pickled body is headed to?  To the one person who might be able to bring him back to life.  If she could bring back an extinct species an old man who died will be possible.  He's still flesh and that is an easy miracle compared to giving life back to stone eggs.

[rustythesmith]

On 11/7/2018 at 4:26 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

It's no contest.  Jon Snow is the most tragic character and it is very much self-inflicted.  Here he is a bastard given the chance to rise up in the Night's Watch.  His Night's Watch brothers gave him an opportunity to rise that the Starks never would have.  They treated him like an equal.  He was given the chance to defend the realm.  But he blew it when he could not maintain objectivity.  He was so prejudiced against the enemies of the Starks that his decisions became so compromised.  He killed a popular member of the watch for a minor offense.  Then he lets the biggest criminal in the history of the order to go unpunished because he needed that person to commit an act of treason.  It was treason alright, because Mance Rayder is still a member of the Night's Watch.  It was treason committed by Jon to get his sister away from Ramsay Bolton.  Even more tragic because the girl wasn't his sister.  His actions threw the Night's Watch into chaos and left a good man like Bowen Marsh no choice but to kill him to avoid further damage to the order and the realm.  Jon even lied to himself, saying he would not order any of his brothers to commit treason.  He most surely did.  He ordered Mance Rayder to bring his sister to him.  As I said, Mance is a brother of the Night's Watch.  Mance committed the violation of guest rights and probably on orders from Jon.  The mess it will cause at the wall is something the watch doesn't need at this time.  

You're using vague terms and I'm not sure what each line is referring to so please correct me if I guess wrong.

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Here he is a bastard given the chance to rise up in the Night's Watch.  His Night's Watch brothers gave him an opportunity to rise that the Starks never would have.

Jon volunteered for the Watch, so it seems mildly inaccurate to call it a chance or an opportunity. This opportunity requires that you swear off women, family, land, titles and allegiances for the rest of your life. For that, you have the privilege to labor in the freezing north beside an ungodly large chuck of ice while eating crappy food and traveling nowhere until you die of injury or old age. Alternatively Jon could have done just about anything else with his life, with all his freedoms intact. The Night's Watch is certainly a noble sacrifice but it seems like Jon bought into the lie that the Night's Watch is a fulfilling calling.

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He killed a popular member of the watch for a minor offense.

It seems like you are referring to Janos Slynt who received a lot of votes in the election. How is what Janos did a minor offense? Jon gave Janos 30 men and ordered him to repair castle Greyguard, and Janos refused a direct order and threw a tantrum. Jon was pretty calm and he let Janos sleep on it, hoping that Janos would change his mind. The next day Janos was still disobedient and antagonistic, which forced Jon to enact some kind of punishment. Jon considered locking Janos in an ice cell but he knew that Janos would return to his old ways as soon as he lets him free. So the only reasonable choice is to execute him. Janos's death is completely Janos's fault. He had every opportunity to shape up, and the law needs to apply equally to everyone regardless of their popularity. What course of action would you take to deal with a completely disobedient and antagonistic member of the Night's Watch who is constantly working to undermine your authority to your face as well as behind your back?

[Sigella]

31 minutes ago, The Pink Letter said:

Sigella.  You know where his pickled body is headed to?  To the one person who might be able to bring him back to life.  If she could bring back an extinct species an old man who died will be possible.  He's still flesh and that is an easy miracle compared to giving life back to stone eggs.

Ressurections are prevalent, but I dont think (hope) that it will happen to Aemon because it would likely unmake all that I listed above.

[Wolf's Bane]

Lady Stoneheart needs to be the last person to come back from death.  Beric and Stonheart.  Any more will create an unconcerned attitude towards death among the readers.

2 hours ago, The Pink Letter said:

Sigella.  You know where his pickled body is headed to?  To the one person who might be able to bring him back to life.  If she could bring back an extinct species an old man who died will be possible.  He's still flesh and that is an easy miracle compared to giving life back to stone eggs.

 

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Ressurections are prevalent, but I dont think (hope) that it will happen to Aemon because it would likely unmake all that I listed above.

 

[Sigella]

14 hours ago, Wolf's Bane said:

Lady Stoneheart needs to be the last person to come back from death.  Beric and Stonheart.  Any more will create an unconcerned attitude towards death among the readers.

 

 

I agree, only with exception for Jon.

[zandru]

14 hours ago, Wolf's Bane said:

Lady Stoneheart needs to be the last person to come back from death.  Beric and Stonheart.  Any more will create an unconcerned attitude towards death among the readers.

I don't know about that. Who would like to have an un-life like Catelyn Tully? Who would want to meet a creature like her? So far, Beric has been the exception in terms of horridness, yet he knows how he's becoming less himself, even less human. And what about Gregor? He's little more than a meatbot at this point. All those plain, unexceptional dead men and women who've become wights? If I thought that would be in my future, I'd be really concerned.

My read of the story is that those who have been restored to life are no one to envy.

[Starkz]

4 hours ago, Sigella said:

I agree, only with exception for Jon.

Jon isn’t dead though. A man then a wolf then a man again.

[Sigella]

11 hours ago, Starkz said:

Jon isn’t dead though. A man then a wolf then a man again.

We dont really know actually.

[Iris Purpurea]

I'm thinking of Weasel (the first Weasel, not Arya). 

''Run, Weasel, run as fast as you can, run and never come back.''

Sniff... :-(

 

 

[Redhands]

Wow this is a hard question. George writes his characters so well that you can argue almost any of them is the most tragic.

I think in the long run, by the end of the series, it will be Jon Snow. He will always sacrifice his physical self and his general well being to do what is best for everyone else, and I think he will end up paying an even bigger price than Ygritte and even his life before the books are done.

As of where the series is right now, it’s hard to decide between Theon and Tyrion. Tyrion wears a mask of wit and sarcasm but he seems to be a good person underneath, and no matter what he does people think he’s a monster for his deformity, so he plays the part. Theon is a bit of an idiot and makes truly dumb mistakes, but he pays for those mistakes most grievously, and I think he has finally learned to become a better person throughout his trials. 

Jaime is hrm.. I don’t think he’s tragic but that he is on a journey of self discovery and will end up doing the right thing in a critical situation when he is called upon. Catelyn is seriously hard to like. She thinks she’s lost all of her children, she has lost her husband and her eldest son, and she’s really on a journey going the opposite way from Jaime. She’s turning from a somewhat good person into a villain. Cersei is tragic in that she thinks she’s doing things to protect her children even though what she is doing actually destroys them. Dany has a seriously shitty life and a terrible brother but she ends up with dragons.

I almost forgot about Rhaegar! He thinks his life is meant for a greater purpose but he dies in the process. Along with his wife and two young children. His father is nuts and he is forced to fight for the survival of his whole family and is blamed for his father’s crimes. I think of him like a failed Jon Snow. 

[Black Dragons]

I would said Robb Stark, Jeyne Poole, Rhaenys Targaryen, Elia Martell, Viserys Targaryen, Aerys's Wife (The Queen), Cathy Stark (Not Ned Stark because cut head of Night's Watcher)

[S. D]

Agreed with Theon. 

Theon never had a chance. Even if the war never happened he would have a sword hanging over his head as long as Balon was alive. If he had return to Iron Islands, Euron would have killed him. If he had stayed with Robb, he would probably have been killed when Balon rebelled or at the Red Wedding. If he had sent a letter warning Robb, he would have been imprisoned by the Ironmen. If he just did whatever was expected of him and didn't try to capture Winterfell.... Well he would never win the Kingsmoot anyway. 

[Morte]

On 11/25/2018 at 1:28 AM, Sigella said:

Ressurections are prevalent, but I dont think (hope) that it will happen to Aemon because it would likely unmake all that I listed above.

Don't worry. She will not bring him back, but he will get a proper Targaryen funeral, the first in a long time: his pyre will be lit by dragons. I think he would have liked that.

As for the most tragic: Well, if we take the original meaning it is Theon, the others are not even close. Why? Because he is fully responsible for what has happened to him. He fights to make have a place in the world, and he chooses poorly, and he has to bear the consequences. He would make a fine character in a play by Sophocles or Euripides.

[Three-Fingered Pete]

I have to go with the direwolves. They got totally shafted and have no stake in anything. Their mother is killed just as they are being born, then they get adopted by a moron surrogate family that manages to either get them killed, abandoned or exiled to a frozen Hell of some sort and are used as playthings anytime certain people's dreams get too vivid and they feel like going for a four legged walkabout.

[Tijgy]

Aeron The Damphair (together with Jeyne Poole)

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He had run before the Crow's Eye as if he were still the weak thing he had been, but when the waves broke over his head they reminded once more that that man was dead. I was reborn from the sea, a harder man and stronger. No mortal man could frighten him, no more than the darkness could, nor the bones of his soul, the grey and grisly bones of his soul. The sound of a door opening, the scream of a rusted iron hinge.

A man turned into a fundamentalist to escape the pains of abuse he suffered by his brother. 

[Sigella]

3 hours ago, Morte said:

Don't worry. She will not bring him back, but he will get a proper Targaryen funeral, the first in a long time: his pyre will be lit by dragons. I think he would have liked that.

As for the most tragic: Well, if we take the original meaning it is Theon, the others are not even close. Why? Because he is fully responsible for what has happened to him. He fights to make have a place in the world, and he chooses poorly, and he has to bear the consequences. He would make a fine character in a play by Sophocles or Euripides.

Idk... The greek tragedies offered catharsis through renewal and restoration of the character and Theon has been taken too far down. I think we will get something other than catharsis for him. He will never grow his teeth or fingers back, nor will he ever have children. Even if he'd die in valour serving the Nights Watch, the character Theon will still be a totally broken man who think his name is Reek.

[Black Dragons]

Jeyne Poole, Aera Targaryen, Theon Greyjoy, Robb Stark, All tragic death