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Jaime L

NBA 2018: Fear the Deer

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17 minutes ago, DMC said:

Glad to see Davis got fined for his agent trying to manipulate leverage in such a way.  I have no idea what specific rule (if any) that violates, but it should be illegal in some way.  Otherwise the credible commitment of contracts is inherently weakened.

The fine was a joke, though.  $50,000 is .002% of his yearly income.  That's a $100 dollar fine for someone making fifty grand a year.  A slap on the fucking wrist at best, not an actual deterrent.  

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5 minutes ago, briantw said:

The fine was a joke, though.

Sure.  Frankly surprised there was anything though.  It's the small victories!

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

Sure.  Frankly surprised there was anything though.  It's the small victories!

Personally, I think fines for tampering should be 10% of your salary.  I bet we'd see a lot less of it if guys had to fork over millions if they got caught.  Teams should lose draft picks and get a massive fine as well, not the joke 500K fine the Lakers got.

Edited by briantw

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If it's 10% of the player's salary then that should be a commiserate with 10% of the offending teams' owner's annual revenue.  Which of course will never happen.

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3 minutes ago, DMC said:

If it's 10% of the player's salary then that should be a commiserate with 10% of the offending teams' owner's annual revenue.  Which of course will never happen.

No doubt.  It's a nice thought, though.

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6 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Not related to the current discussion, but I remember years ago on this thread that when discussing Jordan vs anyone else, inevitably Scottie Pippen comes up, who was possibly the best possible running mate for someone like Jordan.  He was versatile - an excellent defender, a willing passer, capable of scoring off the dribble, but not reliant on it.

Now, the game has changed, and Pippin's limited range (he's a career 32% 3 point shooter) would be a problem in today's NBA.  But I was thinking about who would be the ideal Robin in the current game.  And to me the obvious choice is Klay Thompson.  Strong defender, excellent range, better without the ball than off the dribble.  And it works out great, because he has two #1 players on his team:rolleyes:

Ugh, I loathe the Warriors superteam.

I think he is the ideal third option and just a very good second option. You probably need another player good with the ball as your second option, otherwise you would also need a team comprised of very well rounded players. Which is to say the Warriors before Durant. 

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

You have to assume that yesteryear’s players would be much better three point shooters if they came up in today’s league. It’s what makes it so hard to compare teams from different eras (same goes for health, training, recovery etc.).

I mean, one year Magic won the title, he made as many threes as I have for my entire NBA career.

I'd change hard to futile and vain.

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Heard a crazy stat on the radio. In 2012, the Pelicans and Hornets (then Bobcats) had the top two picks in the draft. The Pelicans obviously drafted AD while the Hornets took Michael Kidd-Gilchrist second. Since then, the Hornets have a better overall record than the Pelicans. 

I mentioned it before, but it seems that every year the Pelicans are heavily injured. That surely has to be a contributing factor.

It's not like the Hornets are that bad a team either, they usually more or less do well enough to be in position for the 8th seed. I guess they were as bad as the Bulls and Suns are now, but they have been pretty decent for awhile.

 

I don't get the outrage over Davis. Isn't it basically the same thing that Kawhi and Butler pulled? The only difference is that he has a safety net of a team wanting him, but really, at their levels, don't they all have that same safety net regardless? 

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40 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

I don't get the outrage over Davis. Isn't it basically the same thing that Kawhi and Butler pulled? The only difference is that he has a safety net of a team wanting him, but really, at their levels, don't they all have that same safety net regardless? 

The outrage is because Anthony Davis shares an agent with LeBron, and LeBron basically owns the agency.  It's pretty obvious they are trying to steer Davis to LA to bail out LeBron, because that team sucks.

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4 minutes ago, briantw said:

The outrage is because Anthony Davis shares an agent with LeBron, and LeBron basically owns the agency.  It's pretty obvious they are trying to steer Davis to LA to bail out LeBron, because that team sucks.

I get that, but star players basically have all the leverage anyway. Would it really make that much difference if we cut out the agent and LeBron gave Davis a phone call? 

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17 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

Would it really make that much difference if we cut out the agent and LeBron gave Davis a phone call? 

Well, that would be very clear tampering, and subject to penalty.  So, not sure how to answer that question.

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7 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, that would be very clear tampering, and subject to penalty.  So, not sure how to answer that question.

Shrug, rules should still be applied regardless, but I don't really feel that there is an outrage factor. Davis knows he is wanted practically everywhere and teams trading for him just have to make themselves attractive and signal their intentions.

I mean, the Clippers are nudging and winking so hard at Kawhi this year that there is an ESPN article about it. There is no substantial difference. The Lakers have the clearest channel, but everyone is broadcasting the same message.

I would be a lot more offended if it was a mid tier star with more limited destinations, but Davis is a top tier star and telling him you want him doesn't affect anyone's bargaining power, and everyone else is trying to attract him anyway.

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19 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

I mean, the Clippers are nudging and winking so hard at Kawhi this year that there is an ESPN article about it. There is no substantial difference.

Yes there is.

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16 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yes there is.

To me, its just a matter of form. Its substantially the same thing. Its like saying "I don't want to get fined" when teams are griping about the officiating. The message is clear.

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It's not like griping about officiating, at all.  And it is substantially different than what any other player in a similar situation has done. 

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I really don't get why some of you are so upset. Player agency in a GOOD thing, imho. Sure we probably don't want all the stars clumping together, but the reality is they will regardless, so allowing the guys that want to play together to maneuver into positions which allow them to do so is just fine with me, when it comes to parity on top of the NBA team power rankings. It's certainly better than having ONE super team. 

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6 hours ago, briantw said:

 It's pretty obvious they are trying to steer Davis to LA to bail out LeBron, Jeanie Buss because that team sucks.

fixed this for you

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10 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

I think he is the ideal third option and just a very good second option. You probably need another player good with the ball as your second option, otherwise you would also need a team comprised of very well rounded players. Which is to say the Warriors before Durant.

Yes, the pre-Durant Warriors were a very deep team with a lot of talented role players to round out the stars of Curry, Green and Thompson.  But remember that the 90s Bulls had a lot of talent beyond just Jordan and Pippin as well.  Maybe not as good as Green/Iguodala/Livingston/Bogut/Barnes, but still a very talented bunch. 

But what makes Thompson noteworthy is that very very few NBA stars are actually at their best as complementary players.  Lebron is awesome, and he'll make his teammates better, but he needs the ball to do it.  Likewise Durant, Curry, Davis, etc.  But Thompson is at his most lethal running without the ball, and that is a rare skill indeed.  Combine that with a well rounded skillset of passing, rebounding and defense, and you have an ideal player for forming a superteam.  Just like Pippin. 

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3 hours ago, Relic said:

fixed this for you

Why would Rich Paul care about bailing out Jeanie Buss?  LeBron has been sabotaging her since last year when he tried to get Like Walton fired while still playing for the Cavs.

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10 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Yes, the pre-Durant Warriors were a very deep team with a lot of talented role players to round out the stars of Curry, Green and Thompson.  But remember that the 90s Bulls had a lot of talent beyond just Jordan and Pippin as well.  Maybe not as good as Green/Iguodala/Livingston/Bogut/Barnes, but still a very talented bunch. 

But what makes Thompson noteworthy is that very very few NBA stars are actually at their best as complementary players.  Lebron is awesome, and he'll make his teammates better, but he needs the ball to do it.  Likewise Durant, Curry, Davis, etc.  But Thompson is at his most lethal running without the ball, and that is a rare skill indeed.  Combine that with a well rounded skillset of passing, rebounding and defense, and you have an ideal player for forming a superteam.  Just like Pippin. 

I don't disagree with you, but I think that that skill set is not suited to be the second best player. I think that you need a second ball handler.

For example, assuming Wall is healthy, I think that if you were to trade Thompson for Beal or Wall, the team would be worse. He's basically a better Ariza. Just my two cents anyway, I would defer to your expertise.

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20 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

I don't disagree with you, but I think that that skill set is not suited to be the second best player. I think that you need a second ball handler.

For example, assuming Wall is healthy, I think that if you were to trade Thompson for Beal or Wall, the team would be worse. He's basically a better Ariza. Just my two cents anyway, I would defer to your expertise.

Any team is going to be better with Thompson as the third banana rather than the #2 (or ridiculously, the #4 player like he is on GSW).  But Thompson is as good or better than the second best player on some teams that won a championship, like the 2011 Mavs, the 2013 Heat or the 2016 Cavs. 

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1 hour ago, briantw said:

Why would Rich Paul care about bailing out Jeanie Buss?  LeBron has been sabotaging her since last year when he tried to get Like Walton fired while still playing for the Cavs.

LeBron didn't put this team together. Steering Davis to LA, as you put it, would be to "bail out" management who made some really shitty decisions in the past....8 years, really. 

Why would LeBron need to be "bailed out"? You're such a hater, lol

Edited by Relic

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