Bloodraven- mystery?

[lavthelonewolf]

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Well, because the weirwoods are demonic and they feed on human blood, and I don't want Bran to spend the rest of his life in that cave, and neither does he.

 

 

he doesn't like it now but i do think bran's destiny lies there. 90% of his arc till now has revolved around him being a greenseer and i don't see him neglecting that.

[AlaskanSandman]

On 11/2/2018 at 9:38 PM, lavthelonewolf said:

 

Something established early on that i've always found interesting

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Jon VIII

Jon's fingers were in the bucket, blood up to the wrist. "Dywen says the wildlings call us crows," he said uncertainly.

"The crow is the raven's poor cousin. They are both beggars in black, hated and misunderstood."

 

What Crow and Raven do we know in the Books?

Bloodraven with his Raven's Teeth who becomes a crow. These are not the crow's im thinking about though. Or Crow.

Crow's Eye Euron GreyJoy, who i wonder about sending out visions (Or the Great Other, Night King). As Bloodraven comes possibly as a tree according to Bran who has Tree dreams, wolf dreams, and crow dreams about flying. Flying dreams and crows shared by Robert Arryn and Euron Greyjoy. 

 

[Son of Man]

23 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

I think I can say for certain that he isn't a selfless hero, but he also didn't seem all that bad from reading 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.' People hated him because he was a bastard, a "sorcerer", and just looked different in general. 

As to what his plan is for Bran, I think my favourite theory is that he wants to skinchange into Bran's body, because his body is so old that its shutting down. 

A crippled body is a poor choice but I suppose the greenseer ability is tied to the physical body itself.  That is why a person who wargs into an animal and then dies is permanently stuck in that animal.  

[Son of Man]

On 11/3/2018 at 12:38 AM, lavthelonewolf said:

Okay iv been reading A world of ice and fire for the 3rd or 4th time now. And apart from the targ kings, there are multiple other characters that intrigue me,Bloodraven being one of them. 

But im still am not able to fully understand what sort of character he is. 

Is he really the misunderstood guy he would make us believe,was he really the selfless loving brother who did what he did for the stability of the realm, or did he have a much more sinister motive? 

And what is his motive really? Why is he seeking out bran? What does he wish to achieve? What is his role in the future of the series?

Is he seeking out bran so that he can train him for the war against the others OR is he waging a war against mankind itself? 

I read a blog post long back on how ASOIF is inspired from Ragnarok-the norse mythology.. the author likens bloodraven to loki who is a notorious character credited to starting the events that lead to battle between gods and the man and leading to ragnarok itself. Can that be true? 

I would love to hear your thoughts on him. He is really an interesting character for me. 

Bloodraven dedicated his life to serving the realm.  He did the things that he needed to do in order to preserve the Targaryen Dynasty for as long as he could.  The Blackfyres were the bad guys in that war.  Bloodraven did what Aegon V was too weak to do.  

[Euron III Greyjoy]

1 hour ago, Son of Man said:

A crippled body is a poor choice but I suppose the greenseer ability is tied to the physical body itself.  That is why a person who wargs into an animal and then dies is permanently stuck in that animal.  

As you said, the greenseer ability is tied to a physical body. Plus if all he plans to do is sit on his weirwood throne it doesn't really matter if his host's body is crippled. 

[Megorova]

20 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Hasn't George smoothed out the icky vibe in that Merlin / Morgana relationship, though?  In Westeros, he's added a wonderful reason why Bloodraven would want to be tree bound.   It's an extension of his vows to protect the realm, and there's upside to joining with the weir.   If Quaithe is Sheira (Morgana), don't we see more teamwork than opposition coming from her?   Bloodraven is a Targ loyalist, and Sheira is doing her best to usher a Targ across the sea for him.  In what way do you see them being darkly at odds with each other?

(Unless you think her goal is to "help" with too much shadowy half truth, to where Danny sees betrayal everywhere and strikes her own chances down via paranoia?   Eh.  That's not proof of Quaithe's false friendship to Danny as much as proof that everyone reacts to prophecy in their own way.  Plus, Danny seems to be handling it okay.  So I don' t see that as even something Quaithe and Bloodraven would argue about.  He'd tell her, "Thanks for taking care of the Essos side of things, like we agreed.")

I think, that Shiera, same as Rhaegar, has made many mistakes in relation to the prophecy. Both of them thought, that the Prince that was promised will be conceived, when there will be a comet passing in the sky. That's all what Rhaegar knew, but Shiera knew more. Probably, she had dragondreams, or is able to know the future from fire visions. So she knew, when the comet will come, and where it will happen - near King's Landing in 281. So she needed a child with dragonblood, to be conceived at that time and that place. But because she has left Westeros many years ago, probably after burning of Summerhall, or even prior that, she couldn't interfere with Targaryens. Probably, she was the source of information, that Aegon V has received from Asshai, about how to hatch dragon eggs. But when the ritual failed, she was either exiled from Westeros, or remained in Asshai (if she was there during Summerhall Tragedy).

She didn't cared whose blood to use. Whether it will be blood of Targaryens, or blood of Blackfyres. Red or Black, a dragon is still a dragon. She couldn't get her hands on Aerys or Rhaegar, but she could get Barristan. I think, that Barristan Selmy is a grandson of Aenys Blackfyre, and thus he is a dragonseed. She hired Kingswood Brotherhood, and with their help prepared a trap for Barristan. She disguised herself as septa, and was escorting Lady Jeyne Swann, when they were attacked by KB, and Barristan saved them. Shiera has prepared a love potion for Jeyne, to give it to Barristan. Then Jeyne seduced him, and later gave birth to their child - fAegon. Septa Lemore is Lady Jeyne Swann. Swanns are Blackfyre loyalists, furthermore, they are bloodrelated. I think, that Johanna Swann, the Black Swann of Lys, was mother of Larra Rogare, and thus great grandmother of Shiera Seastar, Bloodraven, Bittersteel, Daemon I Blackfyre, Daeron II Targaryen, and even Rohanne of Tyrosh (wife of Daemon Blackfyre).

This theory is posted here

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150460-ideas-or-theories-your-personal-good-bad-and-ugly/&do=findComment&comment=8259662

and next two posts after it.

So fAegon, and the upcoming confrontation between him and Dany, is Shiera's fault. And she also kidnapped Dany's son, Rhaego. And, possibly, that Euron Greyjoy is also her "creation". She's the Three-eyed Crown, and he is Euron Crow's Eye. Who do you think was his teaher in Asshai? My guess it was Shiera. And Euron is one of her many mistakes. She tried to use her knowledge to orchestrate natural course of events, and made them benefitial to her. The Tragedy at Summerhall happened because of her. Varys is also her creation.

Shiera was using very foul methods, to achieve what she wanted, thus, she's not exactly a good person. And she's similar to Morgana le Fay. For example, how Morgana orchestrated events in the story Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Gawain_and_the_Green_Knight#Synopsis

[Dorian Martell's son]

16 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Why do people think it is any different for Bran and Bloodraven's cave? 

The ctof are not the undying. Bloodraven is not a warlock. Unlike dany's dragons, Bran does not have anything the ctof does not already have. That is why the two are fundamentally different

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

11 hours ago, lavthelonewolf said:

he doesn't like it now but i do think bran's destiny lies there. 90% of his arc till now has revolved around him being a greenseer and i don't see him neglecting that.

 

Bran doesn't want to be a greenseer, he wants to be a knight and he wants to have a normal life with Meera, they are trying to force him into being a greenseer and steal his future from him.

"Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain when we are gone."

"So will you," said Meera. That made Bran sad. What if I don't want to remain when you are gone?"

 

" You have to wake, he would tell himself, you have to wake right now, or you'll go dreaming into death."

And they gave him the weirwood seeds that would wed him to the tree, so while he is dreaming he would sprout roots and never be able to leave.

 

The 3 eyed crow tried to get Bran to go to the Heart of Winter.  Neither Jojen, Bran, or Howland mentioned Bloodraven's cave as Bran's destination, simply "Somewhere to the north, the three-eyed crow awaits us."

But neither Coldhands, Leaf, or Bloodraven are familiar with the "3 eyed crow." 

I think Coldhands intercepted Bran and company and took them to Bloodraven's cave but it was not their intended destination.  Coldhands is Bran's monster, indicating that Bran was the one who reanimated him "long ago," and the Bran that reanimated him is out there in the North somewhere, probably in the Heart of Winter.  But the CoTF de-wighted Coldhands and he serves Bloodraven now.  The White Walkers almost prevent Bran from going into the cave, and they are probably still hanging around outside waiting.

"She remembered a story Old Nan had told once, about a man imprisoned in a dark castle by evil giants. He was very brave and smart and he tricked the giants and escaped . . . but no sooner was he outside the castle than the Others took him, and drank his hot red blood."

 

Theon says "The gods could not kill Bran, no more than I could. It was a strange thought"

This suggests that the old gods tried to kill Bran by getting him pushed out of the window, but he is unkillable.  The 3 eyed crow brought him back to life.  So the old gods went to plan B, try to get him on our side by tricking him into joining the weirwood network.

 

"I dreamed of a winged wolf bound to earth with grey stone chains," he said. "It was a green dream, so I knew it was true. A crow was trying to peck through the chains, but the stone was too hard and his beak could only chip at them."

The stone chains are the weirwood roots that are going to bind Bran, the 3 eyed crow is trying to break the chains.

If Bran is the wolf Fenrir from Norse mythology, he is bound in a cave, but breaks those chains at Ragnarok and kills Odin (Bloodraven, who is the avatar of the weirwood), he also swallows the sun and eats a whole bunch of people. 

 

Bran's time in the cave is loaded with bad foreshadowing

"When singers die they become part of that godhood."

Bran's eyes widened. "They're going to kill me?"

"No," Meera said. "Jojen, you're scaring him." 

"He is not the one who needs to be afraid."

 

"It is time," Lord Brynden said.

Something in his voice sent icy fingers running up Bran's back. "Time for what?"

 

 

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

34 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Bran does not have anything the ctof does not already have.

Bran can warg living humans, I don't think the CoTF can do that.  It is yet to be confirmed but he may be able to communicate with others in the past, and raise the dead, and I don't think the CoTF can do either of those things.

[White Ravens]

On 11/2/2018 at 9:38 PM, lavthelonewolf said:

Okay iv been reading A world of ice and fire for the 3rd or 4th time now. And apart from the targ kings, there are multiple other characters that intrigue me,Bloodraven being one of them. 

But im still am not able to fully understand what sort of character he is. 

Is he really the misunderstood guy he would make us believe,was he really the selfless loving brother who did what he did for the stability of the realm, or did he have a much more sinister motive? 

And what is his motive really? Why is he seeking out bran? What does he wish to achieve? What is his role in the future of the series?

Is he seeking out bran so that he can train him for the war against the others OR is he waging a war against mankind itself? 

I read a blog post long back on how ASOIF is inspired from Ragnarok-the norse mythology.. the author likens bloodraven to loki who is a notorious character credited to starting the events that lead to battle between gods and the man and leading to ragnarok itself. Can that be true? 

I would love to hear your thoughts on him. He is really an interesting character for me. 

I believe that Brynden Rivers was genuinely concerned with Defending the Realm and protecting Targaryen rule while still in King's Landing.  He was a key player in suppressing the first Blackyfyre rebellion while serving King Daeron and commanded an elite group of archers to deadly effect on the Redgrass Field.  When Aerys I was elevated to the Throne in 209 he named Brynden Hand of the King as well as Master of Whisperers.  He kept both of those jobs when Aerys was succeeded by king Maekar and stayed on until the Great Council of 233.  Aerys was mostly concerned with reading books and left much of the responsibilities of rule to Brynden.  Acting as Hand and Master of Whisperers for a quarter of a century gave Bloodraven a great deal of knowledge and power and it would appear that he always acted in the interest of Realm and King.  He was able to suppress two more Blackfyre rebellions during this time.  I get the sense that he was willing to act to protect the realm dispassionately and didn't have an outwardly noticeable compassionate side.  When Maekar died in 233 a Great Council was called and Brynden promised safe passage to Aenys Blackfyre to come and present his case to ascend the throne but Bloodraven betrayed him and had him put to death when he arrived in King's Landing.  So ended his involvement in the politics and rule of King's Landing because that betrayal caused the new King, Aegon V, to imprison him and ultimately banish him to the Wall.  Many of the archers in his elite Raven's Teeth joined him when he traveled north with Maester Aemon's honour guard to join the Night's Watch.  He served at the Wall for six years before being elected Lord Commander and kept that position until he disappeared while ranging beyond the Wall in 252 when he was 77 years old.  So ended his involvement with the affairs of the Seven Kingdom.  But we all know that he didn't die while ranging and somehow ended up in a cave north of the Wall where he bonded with the roots of a weirwood tree and now continues to live even though he is 125 years old. 

Since merging with the tree roots he has gained the ability to look back through time at the events of the past that played out in Westeros.  This will have given him insights and observations that are outside of the narrative of the story.  He is obviously now caught up in the concerns and motives of the  Children of the Forest but at this point we don't know what their motives and plans are either, so it's a wait and see thing.  The Children may end up being a sinister force in the world but that is not my sense of them.  I think that they are more likely to be champions of the natural order of the world but I'm just guessing.  Like Brynden, the children have shown that they can perform extreme acts if it serves their goals and provides them protection, as illustrated by the destruction of the land bridge that once connected Westeros with Essos when they summoned the Hammer of Waters.  Bloodraven has now summoned Bran to the same cave where he is training him to be the Last Greenseer.  Bran has been fed a paste made by the children from the seeds of weirwood trees that allows him to connect more effectively with the trees and his visions have become more intense and have allowed him to see quite far back in time.  Bloodraven has advised Bran that there are limitations to his new-found abilities and that he cannot influence the things he witnesses in the past but I'm not entirely sure if those limitations apply to Bran in the same ways that they did Brynden.  Bran may be a far more powerful greenseer than Bloodraven is and thus he may gain abilities that Bloodraven didn't know about. 

Brynden Rivers was man capable of acting dispassionately to achieve his goals when he was Hand to the King and Master of Whisperers.  Now that he is a weirwood root he may still have opportunities to use the knowledge he has gained while watching the past and the present but we really don't know what he has learned and what he can do with that knowledge.  Defeat the Others?  Restore the seasons to a natural order?  Kill men for violating the weirwood groves?  Ally with the Others because their goal is to restore the seasons to a natural order?  Who can guess? 

Once he bonded with the tree roots it became important to summon Bran to the caves to succeed him as the last and most important greenseer, so he may be just about finished with his goals since becoming a tree but something tells me that there will be a twist or two before he is gone from this story. 

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

40 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Bran can warg living humans, I don't think the CoTF can do that.  It is yet to be confirmed but he may be able to communicate with others in the past, and raise the dead, and I don't think the CoTF can do either of those things.

Anyone can try to skinchange a living human. Bran can do it because Bodor is a simpleton. And no, it has been stated unequivocally with no room for exception that a greenseer can see the past but not change it. The CTOF are the originators of everything bran does. The reason why they are not at the tip of the spear vs the others is that they are few and their time is passing.  
Where did you get the idea that Bran can raise the dead? He is not a fire priest.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

47 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Where did you get the idea that Bran can raise the dead?

Coldhands is Bran's monster, as in a monster Bran made.

"A monster," Bran said.

The ranger looked at Bran as if the rest of them did not exist. "Your monster, Brandon Stark."

"Yours," the raven echoed, from his shoulder. Outside the door, the ravens in the trees took up the cry, until the night wood echoed to the murderer's song of "Yours, yours, yours."

 

 

"Winterfell. I was back in Winterfell. I saw my father. He's not dead, he's not, I saw him, he's back at Winterfell, he's still alive."

"No," said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death."

She is asking him to please not raise the dead, which presupposes that it is an option.

 

Also, for Bran to have raised Coldhands, he must have done it in the past.

 

47 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Anyone can try to skinchange a living human

"Try" is the operative word there.  Bran is the only one we have seen be successful.  Varamyr only did it for an instant and was driven out, and Varamyr was the most skilled skinchanger who was a old grizzled man with a lifetime of skinchanging practice and he failed, Bran is 10 years old and did it by instinct successfully on his first try--Bran is clearly the most powerful skinchanger by a long shot. 

 

47 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

And no, it has been stated unequivocally with no room for exception that a greenseer can see the past but not change it. The CTOF are the originators of everything bran does.

I think you are overstating the case.  Any greenseer can try to change the past, but none have been successful so far, but again, Bran is special.  Ned heard him and Theon heard him, and he communicated with Jon through the weirwood in book 2 and touched him in that weirwood dream even though Bran did not enter the network until book 5.

"A leaf drifted down from above, brushed his brow, and landed in the pool. It floated on the water, red, five-fingered, like a bloody hand. "… Bran," the tree murmured.

They know. The gods know. They saw what I did. And for one strange moment it seemed as if it were Bran's face carved into the pale trunk of the weirwood, staring down at him with eyes red and wise and sad. Bran's ghost, he thought, but that was madness. Why should Bran want to haunt him? He had been fond of the boy, had never done him any harm. It was not Bran we killed. It was not Rickon. They were only miller's sons, from the mill by the Acorn Water."

 

 

"Winterfell," Bran whispered.

His father looked up. "Who's there?" he asked, turning …

"Father." Bran's voice was a whisper in the wind, a rustle in the leaves. "Father, it's me. It's Bran. Brandon."

Eddard Stark lifted his head and looked long at the weirwood, frowning, but he did not speak.

"A weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?"  " And what about the weirwood with his brother's face, that smelled of death and darkness?

 

At that point in book 2 Bran was not connected to the weirwood, and did not know they were a source of magic.  Why would he appear to Jon as a weirwood, and what is the meaning of the accelerated growth, if not to show a time distortion?  And why was Bran associated with death?

 

The CoTF are servitors and food for the weirwood, any and all powers they have are granted to them by the weirwood.  The trees are their gods, not the other way around.

[White Ravens]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Anyone can try to skinchange a living human. Bran can do it because Bodor is a simpleton. And no, it has been stated unequivocally with no room for exception that a greenseer can see the past but not change it. The CTOF are the originators of everything bran does. The reason why they are not at the tip of the spear vs the others is that they are few and their time is passing.  
Where did you get the idea that Bran can raise the dead? He is not a fire priest.

I agree with the bolded above but I want to add a bit of wiggle room and introduce the words "so far".

 

[chrisdaw]

Bloodraven is a bad guy. He is for Bran to reject.

Bloodraven is an absolutist whereas ASOIAF is about meeting in the middle. The easiest way to show this is to give the direct comparison between him and Tywin Lannister.

Tywin.

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"Be quiet, Cersei. Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.

Bloodraven.

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Sometimes at court I would serve the king's small council. They used to fight about it. Uncle Baelor said that clemency was best when dealing with an honorable foe. If a defeated man believes he will be pardoned, he may lay down his sword and bend the knee. Elsewise he will fight on to the death, and slay more loyal men and innocents. But Lord Bloodraven said that when you pardon rebels, you only plant the seeds of the next rebellion.

Stannis is not without mercy, he tears himself up inside over the hard decisions he believes is his duty to make. Tywin is pure efficiency, however violent. Bloodraven it is all personal, he is petty, bitter, never forgets and never forgives. In his mind now and forever he is fighting the Blackfyre Rebellion. He is a Targaryen loyalist to the bitter icy end. Like Aerys, he would rather Westeros be destroyed than it be ruled by anyone other than a Targaryen. He has one eye on the future of Westeros, of ensuring some kind of human survival, and his 1000 other eyes on settling a Targaryen back on the Iron Throne.

He sees the future and is attempting to divert it, particularly he sees the problems bastard Tyrion is going to cause the Targ claimants and so is trying to kill him. By fucking around with things trying to restore Targ rule he is going to cause the greyscale outbreak and the deaths of thousands or millions of Westerosi.

He probably skinchanged the boar that killed Robert. He skinchanged Mandon Moore to try and kill Tyrion. He was responsible for the Bridge of Dreams, where he attempted to kill Faegon. He skinchanged grayscaled rats to kill Serra, probably attempting to kill Faegon then too, an attempt that killed two-thousand others.

He is going to find a way for humanity to survive the Others but it will come at the cost of having to sacrifice their children. This plan will horrify Bran, he will reject it, Summer will maul Bloodraven to death and Bran will go it alone.

Bloodraven is a lesson to Bran, don't use your powers to indulge in the petty scuffles of man, he must learn to forgive and forget and act in the interest of all man kind, not just house Stark. He must put aside the WoT5Ks, as the future depends upon it.

[Curled Finger]

9 hours ago, Son of Man said:

A crippled body is a poor choice but I suppose the greenseer ability is tied to the physical body itself.  That is why a person who wargs into an animal and then dies is permanently stuck in that animal.  

It has been said many times that the loss of a sense or ability increases those remaining.   It's entirely possible the last greenseer, possibly the end of all those magical beings, had to be instilled in a talented child who was required to focus on 1 particular talent, the seeing of past, present and future.   Bran wanted to be a knight, not this.  That's probably key in all this. 

I read the dying in an animal as a sort of prize for being a superior skin changer.    They are sort of immortal in their 2nd lives.  Bran senses the essence of a COTF long dead in the 1st bird he skin changes.    Now if I could just figure out how this serves the overall story...

[White Ravens]

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Coldhands is Bran's monster, as in a monster Bran made.

"A monster," Bran said.

The ranger looked at Bran as if the rest of them did not exist. "Your monster, Brandon Stark."

"Yours," the raven echoed, from his shoulder. Outside the door, the ravens in the trees took up the cry, until the night wood echoed to the murderer's song of "Yours, yours, yours."

 

 

"Winterfell. I was back in Winterfell. I saw my father. He's not dead, he's not, I saw him, he's back at Winterfell, he's still alive."

"No," said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death."

She is asking him to please not raise the dead, which presupposes that it is an option.

 

Also, for Bran to have raised Coldhands, he must have done it in the past.

Coldhands stated that he is Bran's monster.  That does not mean that Bran created him.  It means that he is a monster from Bran's perspective or that someone sent him to Bran;

Leaf was not asking Bran to please not raise Ned from the dead, she was telling him that it would be a waste of time. 

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

 

"Try" is the operative word there.  Bran is the only one we have seen be successful.  Varamyr only did it for an instant and was driven out, and Varamyr was the most skilled skinchanger who was a old grizzled man with a lifetime of skinchanging practice and he failed, Bran is 10 years old and did it by instinct successfully on his first try--Bran is clearly the most powerful skinchanger by a long shot. 

 

Varamyr appeared in a prologue chapter that revealed far more about wargs and skinchangers than we had ever seen before.  Based on that information it becomes quite difficult to compare Bran skinchanging Hodor and Varamyr skinchanging Thistle.  Bran and Hodor had years of together in a trusting and comfortable relationship and Hodor is mentally handicapped.  The first time Bran entered Hodor's mind was during a stressfull and fearfull event and it happened almost by accident, born out of self-preservation.  Bran deperately wanted to silence screaming Hodor and the skinchanging seemed to happen on it's own.  By contrast, Varamyr (who was also acting out of a desire for self-preservation) tried to actively and violently enter the mind of an cognizant living adult to subdue them against their will which caused his victim to resist him with every fiber of her being. 

[The Mother of The Others]

4 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

they gave him the weirwood seeds that would wed him to the tree, so while he is dreaming he would sprout roots and never be able to leave.

They'd want a nice long coma sleep for that so the patient wouldn't roll around and break the early root shoots off before they cinched him in place.   I bet that coma was supposed to happen during the 5 year fast forward Georgie originally planned. 

 With all of that long quotestorm, what you failed to take into account is I've also read the same books!    Just because the trees digest blood doesn't make them evil, it makes them hungry.   They just happen to exist above us on the food chain, which is an uncomfortable mental adjustment for us humans, but we're not angelic/good, so the creatures that prey on us are therefore not evil.  It's tempting to see it that way, but they're just hungry.  Neutral.  Like nature overall.  The "blood on top of their leaves, rot beneath" is a description of the mulching that drives the life cycle of any healthy forest or jungle.  We imagine we're apart from nature, above it.  The weir feedings remind us otherwise.  Maybe the weir set themselves above the forest in some ways, putting their tree egos in competition with ours, the way U.S.A. and France see each other as jerkish when really they're just bumping into a mirror image ego culture.  The blood sacrifice stuff makes the forest awesome is all.  Those are deaths with purpose at least,  whereas we have totally senseless Chicago street deaths.  Which is more heinous an environment , really? 

Bran is being offered a quality wheelchair job where he can make a real difference, and the visions he sees will convince him of that and he'll opt in.   Manderly's ancestors seem to have done well for themselves by earning the blessings of the blood trees.   It's not a wholly antihuman scene to be involved in.

Now what I haven't read  is all the obscure short stories like the Worm one.   Thanks for bringing those in.   I can't say for sure whether you're making up some of these references, but either way it's awesome stuff so keep it up!   What I'd submit for your consideration though is that this is a new story of George's and don't you think he'd want to approach it from a fresh angle?   Maybe even do something new with some of these symbols whose meaning you see as being so set in stone.

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Shiera hired Kingswood Brotherhood, and with their help prepared a trap for Barristan. She disguised herself as septa, and was escorting Lady Jeyne Swann, when they were attacked by KB, and Barristan saved them. Shiera has prepared a love potion for Jeyne, to give it to Barristan. Then Jeyne seduced him, and later gave birth to their child - fAegon. Septa Lemore is Lady Jeyne Swann. 

Thanks also to Megorova (Meg?) for taking the confusion out of the early Barristan incident in the kingswood!   I'd be happy with that as Aegon's origin story and the rationale for the Brotherhood's oddness.  Selmy and Swann could then be the living bridge between the armies of Daenerys and Aegon, and whether or not  he became one of Danny's 3 betrayals it'd be interesting at least.  There'd be chances for Targ reconciliation.    I see what you're saying about how Shiera has set up a potential field of fire between the Targs.   But back when she set fAegon up, lots of people were doing that; Targ Farming was incredibly popular as a hobby among the well- to- do back then.  And I can't fault any of the Targ farmers individually because you don't know which Targ babies will survive to adulthood, if any, so you best plant a field full of them and worry about potential overgrowth later on.   So  I could still spin all that as Team BloodStar (Bloodraven and Seastar, sitting in a tree...) working in tandem on opposite sides of the Narrow Sea and building toward the prophesied 3 heads of the dragon. 

Now if she did train up Euron later on in the game, specifically on how to steal a dragon from Raven's targ, that'd be more problematic.   It's Asshai, though.   I have to believe there's other options for who mentored Euron in the dark arts, because honestly he does reek of a darker shade of mentoring than Operation Aegon, which I'd feel good about characterizing as Soulful Invisibility.

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

1 hour ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Just because the trees digest blood doesn't make them evil, it makes them hungry.   They just happen to exist above us on the food chain, which is an uncomfortable mental adjustment for us humans, but we're not angelic/good, so the creatures that prey on us are therefore not evil.  It's tempting to see it that way, but they're just hungry.  Neutral. 

Lions are above us on the food chain and they are not evil if they eat a human, they are revered as powerful and dangerous animals.  They are carnivores and we just happen to be made of meat. 

However, if a lion exclusively ate humans because they are sentient and it enjoyed the suffering of sentient creatures, and rewarded humans for supplying human blood to it with magical favors, and particularly liked the blood of babies, and could psychically manipulate humans to serve it, and could see the future, that it is not a level playing field, and humans would have no way of fighting back and would become enslaved by the lion--then the lion is evil and it is demonic. 

 

1 hour ago, The Mother of The Others said:

 I can't say for sure whether you're making up some of these references

Weak bait.  Here is another made up reference, in George's And Seven Times Never Kill Man, the Steel Angels are followers of the pale child Bakkalon*, and they kill the peaceful Jaenshi, destroy their pyramids, and steal their land.  The pyramids are weirwood-like, and have psionic powers.  The pyramid tricks the Steel Angels into bringing it into their compound and then gets them to kill their children and destroy their winter stores of food because it has made them think there will be a summer that never ends.

In ASOIAF, the First Men hated the weirwood when they first came to Westeros, and tried to destroy it and to kill the CoTF and caused widespread bloodshed.  This blood fed the trees.  The weirwood got into their heads and manipulated them, and now they worship it.

The Andals supposedly got dream visions that sent them to Westeros, they hated the weirwood when they first came to Westeros, and tried to destroy it.  The First Men/CoTF alliance fought the Andals, and this blood fed the trees.  The weirwood got into their heads and now they ignore it, though some still have them in their godswood.

The weirwoods have an incentive to cause war, because it feeds them.

 

The fungus from A Song for Lya psychically manipulates people into feeding themselves to the fungus.  Lya was a very strong telepath, and the fungus seemed to be particularly interested in absorbing her telepathy talent.  This is what I think the weirwood wants with Bran.

There is a theme in George's work of psychic hive minded gods feeding on humans.

 

*bonus trivia in Greek baklon means "stick" or "cudgel" and bakula means "fasces" which is the symbol of fascism.  The baculum is also what the penis bone is called.

 

[lavthelonewolf]

3 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

 

In ASOIAF, the First Men hated the weirwood when they first came to Westeros, and tried to destroy it and to kill the CoTF and caused widespread bloodshed.  This blood fed the trees.  The weirwood got into their heads and manipulated them, and now they worship it.

The Andals supposedly got dream visions that sent them to Westeros, they hated the weirwood when they first came to Westeros, and tried to destroy it.  The First Men/CoTF alliance fought the Andals, and this blood fed the trees.  The weirwood got into their heads and now they ignore it, though some still have them in their godswood.

The weirwoods have an incentive to cause war, because it feeds them.

 

Why does this make soooo much sense to me? Its a simple reasoning but im finding myself drawn to it! 

Also the seasons of westeros is a bit off. I also think that will be resolved by the end of this book. 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

He was responsible for the Bridge of Dreams, where he attempted to kill Faegon.

The Bridge of Dreams really does seem like the "gods" did not like the outcome of the first run through, so they just rolled back time and tried again and the second time got the outcome they wanted.  For the people who think there is a single timeline that cannot be altered, with no time travel allowed, how can you explain this event?  Unless the fog has the ability to cause hallucinations or mass delusion.

The time loop takes place on a river, and Bloodraven says "For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction."  Bloodraven is wrong, the flow is not always in the same direction, Tyrion went in a loop.