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gendrybranaryandjon

My Cold Hands Theory: Jon Snow

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This is just a theory that I have personally sold myself on for no reason. I tweeted it, here is the sequence:

Jon is Cold Hands and I'm sticking to this theory forever I'm sorry get out of here goodbye. When a Dream of Spring comes out in 2039 I'll be yelling at everyone "i told you so"

The only other important character it could be is Benjen Stark and it was confirmed not to be Benjen Stark

What we know about him:
Coldhands was a Black Brother
CH has the pale skin of the Others (wights) but not the blue eyes
CH is dead
A Child of the Forest told Bran that CH "died long ago"

And ik what ur thinking, jon is alive when CH is introduced but if at the end of aDoS when Jon dies and becomes an Other (w/o the blue eyes) like CH and leads the army away I'll know

Maybe just maybe when ur dead time and space work differently and you can go through moments in time in a magical forest at the behest of an old man who controls the world from a tree ?!??!

And it would make sense that he has his face covered the entire time he interacts with both Sam and Bran because Jon really is the only person both boys would recognize and why would a dead man in the woods need to keep his face hidden unless he didnt want to be recognized?

Im not saying *timetravel* im saying *magic* and we already know magic prevents coldhands from traveling past the wall so im just gonna say i feel confident about this and be done now

 

Disclaimer: i know i sound pretty set on this theory but im mostly just being dramatic and its just something i think could be interesting so like dont be rude

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No worries, I won't be rude.  I actually think that could be dramatic and tragic at the end, Jon lonely on his elk,  the world destroyed, he's the only one left except the Children and Others and everywhere snow, snow and nothing else, making attempts to change the ending by going back in time. Is that why you think he's time travelling, by the way, to change the outcome?

I also think there is something happening with the time-space fabric in places where great magics have been done, such as the Bridge of Dreams, but for now that's the only clue we have in the books to any kind of time magic.

So I can see it, but I don't believe time travel will play too large a factor in the book.  It will be something very difficult to do, if it can be done at all, and it definitely won't allow for a "reset" of some kind, although I have played with idea that all these POVs are in the weir network and Bran has to isolate one event, just one, that could mean a better outcome, and interfere with that person's past to do it.  The world's survival rests on a 10 year old to make a choice kind of thing.  Still, I don't think it will come down to this either, it's just a bit too simplistic.

I think Coldhand's throat has been cut, that's why the voice, and his face is likely decomposed.  That's why he hides it so as not to scare the children, not because they might recognize him.  But hey, who knows?

 

 

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I like this theory honestly not THAT crazy....... 

I believe it is someone important to the story line perhaps the original nights king who was betrayed by the others and now wants to help the watch and redeem some honour. 

The Stark LC from long ago? Oslin Stark was it? I cant remember and be bothered to check. 

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9 hours ago, gendrybranaryandjon said:

The only other important character it could be is Benjen Stark and it was confirmed not to be Benjen Stark

Cold Hands doesn't need to be a POV or main character. And we also don't know all of the major and maybe POV characters in the series. At one point, quite a number of the major characters in the books weren't even on the radar. I'm sure more will pop up. And there are lesser characters which are important, too, possibly in ways we don't know yet.

I'm also not convinced about the role of time travel. It's confusing in a series which is already a lot to handle. Any possibility of changing the past also lessens the choices the characters make and the significance of those choices if they can be wiped clean. There's also the theme of playing the Game of Thrones vs seeing the big picture important threats which gets lessened if the possibility of an easy go back in time fix is suggested. Magic does exist in this world, but the characters deal with very real and very unforgiving consequences for their choices.

That said, I'm hoping for character endings akin to what you propose over the rather unimaginative common suggestions of king/queen/lord/lady or dead. I think these feel more organic to the series we have thus far.

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I think Coldhands is no one of any real consequence (other than for the current help he is providing).  We might find out his true identity, who he was before he died, but he will turn out to be a long lost Brother of the NW who may or may not have been a Stark.

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I've always seen Coldhands as a warged corpse. And I agree with Lady Barbree; his face is probably a terrible sight. And not the sort of fellow Sam, Gilly or Bran would trust and/or follow into the white mists. 

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Its an interesting theory, buy why does Coldhands need to be a somebody? He could just be some random member of the Night's Watch. Having everything connected makes the world feel small. 

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You're right, of course.  Coldhands doesn't have to be "somebody" and I'd be fine with that if it turns out to be the case.  But...Benjen Stark is very, very conspicuous in his absence.  Also, remember, a great many things changed between Martin's original outline to the actual books written long after so I'm not so sure that little margin note to his editor is the absolute slam-dunk proof everyone seems to make it out to be;)

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Nothing to contribute, really, which is always true of my posts here if you really wanna get technical.  But let's procede nonetheless, as this should at least prove interesting- - 

  Why not go for broke with this hidden face business and say it's Bran behind there!   The fate of a time traveling Bran the Builder , after he's done going back in time to build the past, is that he has lots of spare time to wander the earth as an immortal thing, and then he realizes the most important roles he has left to play involve moments like this where he must not change things but rather Fulfill History. 

He must identify moments that stand out in his mind, like, "Hey that sure was a lucky break when Coldhands found us and got us through that rough patch. We wouldn't have survived without his very Timely help.  Say, I should peek into the timestream and figure out a way to thank that old dead guy who went out of his way to....  Oh.  There is no such being recorded in history.  Coldhands doesn't exist.  That means.... it was me.  I have to do it now, become 'Coldhands' so as to add Coldhands to the timeline myself, or else it will never have happened. 

The trickiest bit for time travelers is recognizing when they need to stop their usual policy of, 'avoid changing anything' and realize, 'Oh, this is something I would have changed, which means I... did, which means it's "always" been part of the history I remember, which means I Reeeeely need to step out of the shadows right now and act to fulfil that bit of history which, it turns out, I've always been directly involved in, unbeknownst to me.'

Sexy, right!

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8 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

I like this theory honestly not THAT crazy.......

Hard to judge the level of crazy at this point, but it most definitely is totally unsupported by the text. 

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2 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

You're right, of course.  Coldhands doesn't have to be "somebody" and I'd be fine with that if it turns out to be the case.  But...Benjen Stark is very, very conspicuous in his absence.  Also, remember, a great many things changed between Martin's original outline to the actual books written long after so I'm not so sure that little margin note to his editor is the absolute slam-dunk proof everyone seems to make it out to be

Sorry, deleted the wink accidentally. :dunce:

That "no" that Martin wrote when his editor asked whether CH was Benjen happened many yrs after the infamous outline. As a matter of fact, iirc, Martin writing "no" happened relatively recently? Lemme check...

ETA: @Prince of the North, yup, the whole thing where Martin wrote "no" in reply to his editor was when said editor was reading the manuacript for Dance, so a long time after the early 90's outline. 

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30 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Sorry, deleted the wink accidentally. :dunce:

That "no" that Martin wrote when his editor asked whether CH was Benjen happened many yrs after the infamous outline. As a matter of fact, iirc, Martin writing "no" happened relatively recently? Lemme check...

ETA: @Prince of the North, yup, the whole thing where Martin wrote "no" in reply to his editor was when said editor was reading the manuacript for Dance, so a long time after the early 90's outline. 

Well, then I stand corrected.  Thanks!  I thought it was on the outline for some reason.  Getting old, I guess:P 

As I said, I don't really have strong feelings either way.  But I still think Benjen is quite conspicuous in his absence and it still wouldn't surprise me if Martin changed his mind and made Coldhands a resurrected Benjen Stark.  And it wouldn't surprise me if Coldhands did indeed turn out to be a relative nobody.  But one thing I certainly hope doesn't happen is that Coldhands turns out to be someone from long ago.  The reason for this is I think that would stretch credulity to my breaking point, at least, because then we'd need a plausible explanation for what Coldhands was doing for so long, etc.:dunno: 

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1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

Well, then I stand corrected.  Thanks!  I thought it was on the outline for some reason.  Getting old, I guess:P 

Aren't we all? :lol:

1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

As I said, I don't really have strong feelings either way.  But I still think Benjen is quite conspicuous in his absence

... and it still wouldn't surprise me if Martin changed his mind and made Coldhands a resurrected Benjen Stark.

 

(Ooops, broke down your post too early!) agree he is conspicuous in his absence, and agree that Martin may have changed his mind about the whole thing. 

1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

  And it wouldn't surprise me if Coldhands did indeed turn out to be a relative nobody.

Definitely.

1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

  But one thing I certainly hope doesn't happen is that Coldhands turns out to be someone from long ago.  The reason for this is I think that would stretch credulity to my breaking point, at least, because then we'd need a plausible explanation for what Coldhands was doing for so long, etc.:dunno: 

I know what you mean... and I agree to a point. For instance, CH being someone from the original LN would be quite a stretch, and would take some elaborate explaining for the reasons you mentioned.  But I feel he is not a contemporary character... Leaf says he died "long ago", and given the CotF's lifespan, long ago can't be a couple of years imo. But a former RT fits kinda well... not too long ago in the distant past, but not contemporary either. :dunno:

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5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Aren't we all? :lol:

(Ooops, broke down your post too early!) agree he is conspicuous in his absence, and agree that Martin may have changed his mind about the whole thing. 

Definitely.

I know what you mean... and I agree to a point. For instance, CH being someone from the original LN would be quite a stretch, and would take some elaborate explaining for the reasons you mentioned.  But I feel he is not a contemporary character... Leaf says he died "long ago", and given the CotF's lifespan, long ago can't be a couple of years imo. But a former RT fits kinda well... not too long ago in the distant past, but not contemporary either. :dunno:

Largely agreed!  What does "former RT" stand for?  And apologies if it's completely obvious...:uhoh:

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1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

Largely agreed!  What does "former RT" stand for?  And apologies if it's completely obvious...:uhoh:

It's not. OTOH, I am completely lazy! RT - Raven's Teeth. 

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It's not. OTOH, I am completely lazy! RT - Raven's Teeth. 

Ah, got it.  That's a possibility I hadn't really thought of.  If that is the case then I suppose his relatively fresh garb could easily be explained by just getting some newer clothes somewhere, etc.  But I'd still like to know what he's been doing for the last...oh, 70 years or so, right?  Or are you thinking more along the lines that, while Coldhands is a former Raven's Tooth, he wasn't resurrected or whatever until much more recently?

Because, whatever turns out to be the case, I firmly believe Coldhands' purpose was to be sent by Bloodraven to bring Bran to him at all costs.  As such, I would have some difficulty with the idea that Coldhands has just been boppin' around north o' the Wall for several decades, etc.:dunno:

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18 hours ago, gendrybranaryandjon said:

This is just a theory that I have personally sold myself on for no reason. I tweeted it, here is the sequence:

Jon is Cold Hands and I'm sticking to this theory forever I'm sorry get out of here goodbye. When a Dream of Spring comes out in 2039 I'll be yelling at everyone "i told you so"

The only other important character it could be is Benjen Stark and it was confirmed not to be Benjen Stark

What we know about him:
Coldhands was a Black Brother
CH has the pale skin of the Others (wights) but not the blue eyes
CH is dead
A Child of the Forest told Bran that CH "died long ago"

And ik what ur thinking, jon is alive when CH is introduced but if at the end of aDoS when Jon dies and becomes an Other (w/o the blue eyes) like CH and leads the army away I'll know

Maybe just maybe when ur dead time and space work differently and you can go through moments in time in a magical forest at the behest of an old man who controls the world from a tree ?!??!

And it would make sense that he has his face covered the entire time he interacts with both Sam and Bran because Jon really is the only person both boys would recognize and why would a dead man in the woods need to keep his face hidden unless he didnt want to be recognized?

Im not saying *timetravel* im saying *magic* and we already know magic prevents coldhands from traveling past the wall so im just gonna say i feel confident about this and be done now

 

Disclaimer: i know i sound pretty set on this theory but im mostly just being dramatic and its just something i think could be interesting so like dont be rude

I have a lot of dislike for Jon and wish nothing more than to never get another pov chapter from him.  Which might happen if he comes back as a wight.  And I believe that is how he will come back.  George Martin will violate his own philosophy of keeping a dead character dead.  However, I do not think the time frame allows for him to be Coldhands number 1.  He will become the Night's King.  The lord commander who was responsible for causing trouble at the watch.

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1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

Ah, got it.  That's a possibility I hadn't really thought of.  If that is the case then I suppose his relatively fresh garb could easily be explained by just getting some newer clothes somewhere, etc.  But I'd still like to know what he's been doing for the last...oh, 70 years or so, right?  Or are you thinking more along the lines that, while Coldhands is a former Raven's Tooth, he wasn't resurrected or whatever until much more recently?

Because, whatever turns out to be the case, I firmly believe Coldhands' purpose was to be sent by Bloodraven to bring Bran to him at all costs.  As such, I would have some difficulty with the idea that Coldhands has just been boppin' around north o' the Wall for several decades, etc.:dunno:

Oh I don't know... It's really just one possibility among several. To me it has the bonus of fitting nicely w/ Leaf's "long ago" w/o it meaning thousands of yrs ago. I suppose he could be a RT that was much younger than BR, and went on the ranging when BR "vanished". He could have died yrs after that, and only brought back more recenrly. Or he was wightified when he died, and was brought back somewhat, hence the brown eyes instead of wight-blue. Hands still black coz he's still dead. 

Or he could very well be a random crow that died sometime, and we will never learn anything more about him. 

Or something else entirely! Except any of the time-travelling whatevers we see so often bowadays. :P

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18 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

I also think there is something happening with the time-space fabric in places where great magics have been done, such as the Bridge of Dreams, but for now that's the only clue we have in the books to any kind of time magic.

That part leaves it open imo and im entertained by this theory haha :)

 

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Cold Hands in the Books version is/was the 13 Commander of Night Watch he made a bargain with the Others to become a King of Night Watch.  I don't think he is a Stark.

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