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My Cold Hands Theory: Jon Snow


gendrybranaryandjon

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"Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

"A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late."

"I'm here," Bran said, "only I'm broken. Will you … will you fix me … my legs, I mean?"

So, apropos the speculation that Bran is a time travelling greenseer, the above quote stuck out to me, especially the "I saw your birth" -part. 

How could he know where to look? If Brandon/Bran is the one being sacrificed in front of the heart tree by the white haired woman, his blood and his memory of who he will be/was is already in the weirnet, and accessible for the greenseers. 

It really solves an issue with prophecy, since the information of Bran being a stark, going north, meeting BR and a being a greenseer is already in the Weir Wide Web. 

This would explain why Bran is so powerful, and seemingly takes a very short while to exceed BR in power, especially in his ability to affect the past, however subtly, while making Ned notice him by the Winterfell heart tree. As he's been sacrificed to that specific tree already/will be in his own future. He's already in the tree. (He'll also get his legs back, fixed, but not thanks to BR.) 

How would he do it? Like he does with Hodor, of course. Abomination. This means there's no physical time travel, but a spiritual one, which is already well established in the series. 

Bran is our primary window into the old stories of the North, through the tales of Old Nan, and his interest in them would certainly make even more sense in this light. 

Is he Bran the builder? Night's King? Azor Ahai? The last hero? Who's to say, it would need more work, such as figuring out the timing of the founding of Winterfell and how that coincides with the long night. 

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After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.
Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.
 
"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

Likely it coincides with the founding of Winterfell and the sacrifice is the first given to this heart tree, and how it got its face. 

There are many references to how well Bran knows Winterfell in his second chapter, where the language suggests a similarity between his bare feet and the roots of a tree, how he feels the soil, the rocks, how he knows a secret passage etc.

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He liked how it felt too, pulling himself up a wall stone by stone, fingers and toes digging hard into the small crevices between. He always took off his boots and went barefoot when he climbed; it made him feel as if he had four hands instead of two. He liked the deep, sweet ache it left in the muscles afterward. He liked the way the air tasted way up high, sweet and cold as a winter peach. He liked the birds: the crows in the broken tower, the tiny little sparrows that nested in cracks between the stones, the ancient owl that slept in the dusty loft above the old armory. Bran knew them all.
 
Most of all, he liked going places that no one else could go, and seeing the grey sprawl of Winterfell in a way that no one else ever saw it. It made the whole castle Bran's secret place.

Obviously this needs more work, but I feel there are many pieces that fit, probably a lot more than the ones mentioned here. More than I really like, to be honest. 

Edit: Diversion from op, could be a separate thread, but I bet this has been discussed to death previously. Anyone know? 

 

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On 4/5/2019 at 11:52 PM, Yaya said:

i'm not trying to stop the conversation, or trying to be thought of as a thwarter to the flow of intelligent ideas but what about the fact that Coldhands rides a ELK?

an elk is not a beast that people usually ever ride ...  people sled/cart with reindeer/deer/goats & such but elk aren't an animal normally used for that nor ridden. 
why would Coldhands ride an elk?   it's always bugged me.
 

What struck me about the elk was that it was the prehistoric type - megaloceros with gigantic antlers.  Bran refers to it as a great elk.  One of the old races nearly extinct like the mammoths.  This perhaps also places Coldhands within a time long ago when the green men rode elks.

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A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

"Was he green?" Bran wanted to know. "Did he have antlers?"
The fat man was confused. "The elk?"
"Coldhands," said Bran impatiently. "The green men ride on elks, Old Nan used to say. Sometimes they have antlers too."

 

 

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8 hours ago, NonoNono said:

If Coldhands is the Last Hero/Night's King/13 Lord Commander/Azor Ahai/Brandon the Breaker then him being from so long ago makes sense. He would have been born at the end of the age of heroes.

The other curious thing about him is that he is most concerned about the white walkers; those that walk on the snow without leaving a trace.  I also think he is responsible for the cache of dragonglass which are needed to dispatch the WW.  The cotf armed the NW with dragonlass at one time with a hundred pieces of dragonglass every year.   That stopped at some point, but seems to be something that Coldhands knows about, if he's responsible for hiding the cache.

As to his identity; I think it's possible that he is the Horned Lord, the only King Beyond the Wall who isn't given a name.    Perhaps, buried beneath a glacier until the wildlings dug him up and released in back into the world.  Ygraine frets about opening the graves and wonders what they may have released.

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40 minutes ago, LynnS said:

The other curious thing about him is that he is most concerned about the white walkers; those that walk on the snow without leaving a trace.  I also think he is responsible for the cache of dragonglass which are needed to dispatch the WW.  The cotf armed the NW with dragonlass at one time with a hundred pieces of dragonglass every year.   That stopped at some point, but seems to be something that Coldhands knows about, if he's responsible for hiding the cache.

As to his identity; I think it's possible that he is the Horned Lord, the only King Beyond the Wall who isn't given a name.    Perhaps, buried beneath a glacier until the wildlings dug him up and released in back into the world.  Ygraine frets about opening the graves and wonders what they may have released.

That last part, I think it’s that in the books the Others were locked away for real, like some of the old kings of winter in the crypts of Winterfell. At least some of them, and I am guessing that looking for the horn of Joramun they freed them unwillingly. There is some trick to keep them sealed away, like the iron swords or some such.

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16 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

That last part, I think it’s that in the books the Others were locked away for real, like some of the old kings of winter in the crypts of Winterfell. At least some of them, and I am guessing that looking for the horn of Joramun they freed them unwillingly. There is some trick to keep them sealed away, like the iron swords or some such.

I've always wondered about Coldhands just showing up all of a sudden.  He must have been in cold storage for some time and we know the wildlings were digging beneath a glacier.  Aemon tells us that the cold preserves and if Coldhands is old, then a glacier would be a fitting place to find him.  If he is the Horned Lord, King Beyond the Wall; it may be that the wildlings have some lore about where he is buried and what is buried with him (the horn of Joramun).    I think this is the small cracked horn that Jon finds with the dragonglass cache.  It may also be that the great horn was also found in the same grave.  It may be that the Horned Lord wears antlers sometimes, but it also be that he is the keeper of certain legendary horns. 
 

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A Storm of Swords - Jon X

Jon faced him. "If you've had the Horn of Joramun all along, why haven't you used it? Why bother building turtles and sending Thenns to kill us in our beds? If this horn is all the songs say, why not just sound it and be done?"

It was Dalla who answered him, Dalla great with child, lying on her pile of furs beside the brazier. "We free folk know things you kneelers have forgotten. Sometimes the short road is not the safest, Jon Snow. The Horned Lord once said that sorcery is a sword without a hilt. There is no safe way to grasp it."

 

The horn itself is the type that is common to the NW.  What it does if it's winded is up for grabs. The Wall will fall? Or the Lord Commander will fall (and become the king of winter)?  It's not only called the Horn of Joramun but the Horn of Winter.  The horn is something that has perhaps been handed down to successive Kings of Winter and was once in Joramun's possession.

Is it cracked because it is so old or cracked purposely, so it can't be winded?  It contains some runes and inscription, perhaps a warning. So we'll have to wait for Sam to figure that one out. LOL  

 

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22 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I've always wondered about Coldhands just showing up all of a sudden.  He must have been in cold storage for some time and we know the wildlings were digging beneath a glacier.  Aemon tells us that the cold preserves and if Coldhands is old, then a glacier would be a fitting place to find him.  If he is the Horned Lord, King Beyond the Wall; it may be that the wildlings have some lore about where he is buried and what is buried with him (the horn of Joramun).    I think this is the small cracked horn that Jon finds with the dragonglass cache.  It may also be that the great horn was also found in the same grave.  It may be that the Horned Lord wears antlers sometimes, but it also be that he is the keeper of certain legendary horns. 
 

The horn itself is the type that is common to the NW.  What it does if it's winded is up for grabs. The Wall will fall? Or the Lord Commander will fall (and become the king of winter)?  It's not only called the Horn of Joramun but the Horn of Winter.  The horn is something that has perhaps been handed down to successive Kings of Winter and was once in Joramun's possession.

Is it cracked because it is so old or cracked purposely, so it can't be winded?  It contains some runes and inscription, perhaps a warning. So we'll have to wait for Sam to figure that one out. LOL  

 

I think he was called the Horned Lord because he had the Horn of Winter. It says he used magic to pass south of the wall, and I've said before I don't believe using the Horn of Winter breaks the wall, but opens it.

But I don't believe he is Coldhands, because Coldhands was apparently from the Night Watch, and there is no indication the Horned Lord was. 13th lord commander/Night's King was, so was the Last Hero (since he created the NW). And it is extremely likely Coldhands' name is Brandon Stark. Also Coldhands is seemingly from an older era.

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7 hours ago, NonoNono said:

I think he was called the Horned Lord because he had the Horn of Winter. It says he used magic to pass south of the wall, and I've said before I don't believe using the Horn of Winter breaks the wall, but opens it.

But I don't believe he is Coldhands, because Coldhands was apparently from the Night Watch, and there is no indication the Horned Lord was. 13th lord commander/Night's King was, so was the Last Hero (since he created the NW). And it is extremely likely Coldhands' name is Brandon Stark. Also Coldhands is seemingly from an older era.

I'm not sure that he is the Night King either and I also don't know when the Night King existed.   I think it likely he was a Stark.  I find it curious that the Night King's name was wiped from history and cannot be known.  This seems consistent with referring to the Horned Lord by title rather than a name.   There seems to be a pattern here.  We have Bran whose name cannot spoken (at least by Sam) once he passes the Black Gate; Arya who is apprenticed to the FM, who also give up their identity, and Jon Snow who takes a vow essentially giving up his identity.  

Jon seems to be on track to becoming the next Winter King (beyond the Wall) and as reviled as the Night King of old. 

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Tyrion Lannister had claimed that most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it, but Jon was done with denials. He was who he was; Jon Snow, bastard and oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and damned. For the rest of his life—however long that might be—he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not speak his true name. Wherever he might go throughout the Seven Kingdoms, he would need to live a lie, lest every man's hand be raised against him. But it made no matter, so long as he lived long enough to take his place by his brother's side and help avenge his father. GoT Jon IX

We don't have the full story of the Night King.  Who he was as a man but I suspect his story will turn out to be retold in Jon's story. 

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On 4/5/2019 at 11:52 PM, Yaya said:

i'm not trying to stop the conversation, or trying to be thought of as a thwarter to the flow of intelligent ideas but what about the fact that Coldhands rides a ELK?

an elk is not a beast that people usually ever ride ...  people sled/cart with reindeer/deer/goats & such but elk aren't an animal normally used for that nor ridden. 
why would Coldhands ride an elk?   it's always bugged me.
 

He skin changed the elk.  If Coldhands was a Stark during his life.  That's why the elk behaved like a domesticated animal.  

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6 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm not sure that he is the Night King either and I also don't know when the Night King existed.   I think it likely he was a Stark.  I find it curious that the Night King's name was wiped from history and cannot be known.  This seems consistent with referring to the Horned Lord by title rather than a name.   There seems to be a pattern here.  We have Bran whose name cannot spoken (at least by Sam) once he passes the Black Gate; Arya who is apprenticed to the FM, who also give up their identity, and Jon Snow who takes a vow essentially giving up his identity.  

Jon seems to be on track to becoming the next Winter King (beyond the Wall) and as reviled as the Night King of old. 

We don't have the full story of the Night King.  Who he was as a man but I suspect his story will turn out to be retold in Jon's story. 

I 100% agree that Jon will become King Beyond the Wall and remembered poorly, even if likely the hero.

But I think he will be king beyond a new wall further south, so in Winterfell:)

That is a great quote from Jon's chapter. Totally supports where I think Jon's story is going.

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I don't think there will be a surprise reveal that Coldhands is *insert character here* all along.

However, I think his character will be used to give us a POV into what's happening in the far North - similar to Varamyr in DwD. I think it's likely that he has knowledge of where Benjen is/what he's up to and this will be revealed via a Coldhands POV chapter at some point. Or perhaps even using him as a POV to see more of what the White Walkers are up to.

That being said, I like the theories that I'm reading here that Coldhands was the man who had his throat slit in Bran's vision. That would match up nicely. 

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Hello all, it's been awhile since I attempted to go down this rabbit hole of understanding ASOIAF. I certainly feel like Pate in a AFFC with his utter failure before the Archmaesters. I guess in essence this will be my third attempt to understanding the COTF and their mystical language. I think there is some symmetry to viewing it that way, since the dragon does have three heads.

My best guess as to who Coldhands could be is Dolorous Edd.

 

A Dance with Dragons - Jon VIII  

"Good." Val wheeled the garron toward the north. "The first night of the full moon, then." Jon watched her ride away wondering if he would ever see her face again. I am no southron lady, he could hear her say, but a woman of the free folk. 

"I don't care what she says," muttered Dolorous Edd, as Val vanished behind a stand of soldier pines. "The air is so cold it hurts to breathe. I would stop, but that would hurt worse." He rubbed his hands together. "This is going to end badly."  

"You say that of everything." 

 

I would certainly like to ask a thousand questions or discuss certain concepts that percolate within my mind. I am not sure how to approach anyone who could help guide my way. For instance I do have two specific "quotes" regarding R+L=J. I don't how I should present it? Use the ASOIAF search engine and post the two passages? Bold specifically what I am inquiring about? 

Hopefully someone understands and could kindly give me some guidance. I do not wish to spoil anything for anybody, only to understand better, so that I may take part in the wars to come, faithfully serving wherever my post may be...or simply to expand my own personal knowledge of this wonderful world, so that I may enjoy the coming books more faithfully.

Any light as to how I should proceed would be most helpful.

Thanks.

 

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On 4/15/2019 at 1:07 AM, Mat92 said:

I don't think there will be a surprise reveal that Coldhands is *insert character here* all along.

However, I think his character will be used to give us a POV into what's happening in the far North - similar to Varamyr in DwD. I think it's likely that he has knowledge of where Benjen is/what he's up to and this will be revealed via a Coldhands POV chapter at some point. Or perhaps even using him as a POV to see more of what the White Walkers are up to.

That being said, I like the theories that I'm reading here that Coldhands was the man who had his throat slit in Bran's vision. That would match up nicely. 

That's an interesting possibility since Coldhands keeps his throat covered and why would he since he's impervious to the cold.  I'm thinking he makes another appearance, at least coming in contact with Jon at some point.  If Coldhands hid the dragonglass cache and horn; then Ghost was used to lead Jon to the cache.  Mayhaps an Elk isn't the only creature that Coldhands can skinchange especially since Ghost belongs to the old gods.

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Among the "throat-cutting" candidates: what about Gared? He might think of himself as Bran's monster because Bran witnessed his beheading in his first POV. He was also a member of the Night's Watch and a skilled, experienced ranger.

He was beheaded by the sword Ice - maybe those who are beheaded by Ice are somehow caught in a suspended state between life and death. Those beheaded by Ice would include Ned Stark and Sansa's direwolf, Lady, plus three other Night's Watch deserters that we know of - Ned says something about Gared being the fourth deserter he has caught this year.

My other current "Wouldn't that be wild?" candidate for Coldhands would be Craster, who dies shortly before Coldhands appears. Dirk slit Craster's throat in the mutiny at Craster's Keep. Coldhands later kills Dirk, Ollo Lophand and other deserters from the mutiny. Bran witnesses the killing of the mutineers while warging in his direwolf, Summer, who eats flesh of the dead traitors.

Craster's son with Gilly is called "Monster" while Val waits for him to be old enough to have a real name. Saying that he is Bran Stark's monster might make this an appropriate family nickname.

But Craster wouldn't fit with the "They killed him long ago." line about Coldhands.

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On 4/5/2019 at 11:52 PM, Yaya said:

i'm not trying to stop the conversation, or trying to be thought of as a thwarter to the flow of intelligent ideas but what about the fact that Coldhands rides a ELK?

an elk is not a beast that people usually ever ride ...  people sled/cart with reindeer/deer/goats & such but elk aren't an animal normally used for that nor ridden. 
why would Coldhands ride an elk?   it's always bugged me.
 

I am guessing Bran's SoS remark was a tie in to references martin made in the previous two books.

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV  "Was he green?" Bran wanted to know. "Did he have antlers?"   The fat man was confused. "The elk?"    "Coldhands," said Bran impatiently. "The green men ride on elks, Old Nan used to say. Sometimes they have antlers too."/

You know, back in book one when Cat made comments about the heart tree, children of the forest and the crossing of the first men across the narrow sea. Cat also mentioned the Isle of Faces where the green men kept their silent watch.

Bran was under the impression via Old Nan's stories the Green Men rode elks. I dunna know why.

On first read my impression was Coldhand's was Benjen. Only because Benjen has been missing since the first book. But, no, seems Coldhands is not Benjen.

In hindsight I guess Coldhands was merely a tool to get Bran to the cave of the children of the forest and Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven.

I also entertained the idea that Coldhands was one of Rivers Raven Teeth that accompanied him to the Wall. --- that is not in the five books proper --- it is in the Dunk & Egg tales --- which are also incomplete.

The Green Men are spoken about more in World of Ice & Fire and Princess and the Queen --- short story which was later grouped into Fire and Blood volume I.

Volume II of F & B is incomplete, just as Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (Dunk & Egg) and ASOIAF are.

 

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On 4/17/2019 at 5:28 PM, Maester Crypt said:

Hello all, it's been awhile since I attempted to go down this rabbit hole of understanding ASOIAF. I certainly feel like Pate in a AFFC with his utter failure before the Archmaesters. I guess in essence this will be my third attempt to understanding the COTF and their mystical language. I think there is some symmetry to viewing it that way, since the dragon does have three heads.

My best guess as to who Coldhands could be is Dolorous Edd.

 

A Dance with Dragons - Jon VIII  

"Good." Val wheeled the garron toward the north. "The first night of the full moon, then." Jon watched her ride away wondering if he would ever see her face again. I am no southron lady, he could hear her say, but a woman of the free folk. 

"I don't care what she says," muttered Dolorous Edd, as Val vanished behind a stand of soldier pines. "The air is so cold it hurts to breathe. I would stop, but that would hurt worse." He rubbed his hands together. "This is going to end badly."  

"You say that of everything." 

 

I would certainly like to ask a thousand questions or discuss certain concepts that percolate within my mind. I am not sure how to approach anyone who could help guide my way. For instance I do have two specific "quotes" regarding R+L=J. I don't how I should present it? Use the ASOIAF search engine and post the two passages? Bold specifically what I am inquiring about? 

Hopefully someone understands and could kindly give me some guidance. I do not wish to spoil anything for anybody, only to understand better, so that I may take part in the wars to come, faithfully serving wherever my post may be...or simply to expand my own personal knowledge of this wonderful world, so that I may enjoy the coming books more faithfully.

Any light as to how I should proceed would be most helpful.

Thanks.

 

Not sure if I understand your question, but I think this is what you are after:

If you want to quote someone's post, just use the link icon (<)on the top right of the post - next to the post number, copy the embedded link and paste it in your reply box in original formatting, . Here is the result - click on the arrow:

Or maybe you are asking about multiple quotes in the same posts? Then just click on the "+" next to the "quote" box. This works well if the quotes are in the same thread, otherwise just quote from another thread and copy paste the result in your relevant "Reply" space in the thread you want to post in, example from the RLJ thread:

10 hours ago, Maester Crypt said:

Okay thank you, that is good to know. I understand what you are saying...much appreciated. My mind still has to adjust I guess from the way I viewed the story somewhat. I knew something was there but couldn't place it. It'll take a bit to try to comprehend what is being discussed. That's the difficult part when you not quite sure of the structure. But I will plow on, as really there is no turning back now.

You can also mention a specific member with "@" in front of his alias and notify him / her that you are quoting / replying this person. Example @Maester Crypt

Last, If you want to find a specific topic on this forum, I recommend to Google it with your key words followed by " site:asoiaf.westeros.org ": Example:

https://www.google.fr/search?q=coldhands+site:asoiaf.westeros.org&amp;ei=mDa5XOfuEM6maOvpnZAL&amp;start=0&amp;sa=N&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjnmrSKktvhAhVOExoKHet0B7I4HhDy0wMIhgE&amp;biw=1920&amp;bih=969

 

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On 4/13/2019 at 10:41 PM, Bowen 747 said:

He skin changed the elk.  If Coldhands was a Stark during his life.  That's why the elk behaved like a domesticated animal.  

Coldhands controlled the elk but he was not the 13th lord commander.  He would have rotted away long ago.  His was an old death but not that old.  His uniform would never have lasted that long.  

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On 4/17/2019 at 1:11 PM, Seams said:

Among the "throat-cutting" candidates: what about Gared? He might think of himself as Bran's monster because Bran witnessed his beheading in his first POV. He was also a member of the Night's Watch and a skilled, experienced ranger.

He was beheaded by the sword Ice - maybe those who are beheaded by Ice are somehow caught in a suspended state between life and death. Those beheaded by Ice would include Ned Stark and Sansa's direwolf, Lady, plus three other Night's Watch deserters that we know of - Ned says something about Gared being the fourth deserter he has caught this year.

My other current "Wouldn't that be wild?" candidate for Coldhands would be Craster, who dies shortly before Coldhands appears. Dirk slit Craster's throat in the mutiny at Craster's Keep. Coldhands later kills Dirk, Ollo Lophand and other deserters from the mutiny. Bran witnesses the killing of the mutineers while warging in his direwolf, Summer, who eats flesh of the dead traitors.

Craster's son with Gilly is called "Monster" while Val waits for him to be old enough to have a real name. Saying that he is Bran Stark's monster might make this an appropriate family nickname.

But Craster wouldn't fit with the "They killed him long ago." line about Coldhands.

Bran saw someone get their throat cut in a sacrifice to a tree.

But I think the scarf is hiding Coldhand’s face, not his throat.

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As I can never say for sure that I know anything. I am thinking that Coldhands is possibly Brandon the Dreamer or Shipwright, not sure if they are the same or two separate ones. He is likely though the Brandon, Old Nan was a wetnurse to. There is reasoning behind it but wondered if I'm off base and should search elsewhere?

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10 minutes ago, Maester Crypt said:

As I can never say for sure that I know anything. I am thinking that Coldhands is possibly Brandon the Dreamer or Shipwright, not sure if they are the same or two separate ones. He is likely though the Brandon, Old Nan was a wetnurse to. There is reasoning behind it but wondered if I'm off base and should search elsewhere?

Unlikely, as none of the Brandons you mention were in the NW, and Coldhands is probably a former crow. 

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