Bakker LVI: the Rectum of Creation

[sologdin]

that colloquy is annoying--the website's design is not useful and the interlocutor is needlessly confrontational--standard reddit. probably an uncharitable review, similar to capsules on goodreads that some jerks thereon may from time to time write.

[Darth Richard II]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Delving into that cesspit again, I found this hilarious quote from Seth Dickinson (author of the Traitor Baru Cormorant):

 

*grabs popcorn*

[Darth Richard II]

That's extra funny cause Dickinson's writing as about as subtle as a tactical nuclear strike.

[kuenjato]

On 6/14/2019 at 12:59 PM, Kalbear said:

Delving into that cesspit again, I found this hilarious quote from Seth Dickinson (author of the Traitor Baru Cormorant):

 

I don't entirely disagree with him on that point, but Seth comes off a bit churlish and jealous in that post. Darth, what was your issue with Traitor, again? I actually liked it -- I felt it implemented basic economics in drama far more effectively than, say, Coin and Dagger, which came across somewhat slapdash in the last volume. Can't say the same for Dickinson's second Cormorant novel, though, which basically killed my interest in continuing within the first 100 pages.

[Darth Richard II]

The whole evil empire that has to eliminate the homos thing was so heavy handed and poorly executed it made me cringe, plus I actually though the economics were crap, the twist was predictable and trite, and the main character so unlikable I wanted her to fail. So, well, everything about it.

Anyway, do we know Lordofswans? I feel like that's someone who posted here at one point.

[Darth Richard II]

The best way I think I can put it is the first Cormorant novel felt like some on on the extreme right, like John Ringo, trying to write what they think someone on the far left would write.

[kuenjato]

50 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

The best way I think I can put it is the first Cormorant novel felt like some on on the extreme right, like John Ringo, trying to write what they think someone on the far left would write.

Dickinson, from what I've gathered, was a Something Awful alumni, and his perspective might have been charted as that site's forums shifted from the early days free-for-all shitposting to a more streamlined, mostly-far-left emphasis. I got more the feeling that the project was an attempt at far-left epic fantasy, through the lens of an internet-educated white guy (tho I guess he attempted a PhD in neuroscience?). I think the attempt was genuine, the execution, on the other hand, is in the eye of the beholder. The second novel, as far as I got into it, introduced a ton of new POVs with seemingly only tangental relation to what occurred in the first novel--and weren't introduced effectively, IMO--and regressed the main character in a strange, awkward way. I lost interest after that.

I wonder if anyone has a line on Bakker? The Second Apocalypse forums seem mostly moribund.

[Darth Richard II]

Hmmm not sure how much I can say without getting into trouble but lets say the people who did have a line on Bakker are..no longer welcome here.

16 minutes ago, kuenjato said:

Dickinson, from what I've gathered, was a Something Awful alumni, and his perspective might have been charted as that site's forums shifted from the early days free-for-all shitposting to a more streamlined, mostly-far-left emphasis. I got more the feeling that the project was an attempt at far-left epic fantasy, through the lens of an internet-educated white guy (tho I guess he attempted a PhD in neuroscience?). I think the attempt was genuine, the execution, on the other hand, is in the eye of the beholder. The second novel, as far as I got into it, introduced a ton of new POVs with seemingly only tangental relation to what occurred in the first novel--and weren't introduced effectively, IMO--and regressed the main character in a strange, awkward way. I lost interest after that.

I wonder if anyone has a line on Bakker? The Second Apocalypse forums seem mostly moribund.

Ha, that explains a lot. And yeah I don't think it wasn't a genuine attempt, just that as you said, the internet-educated white guy shone through a LOT, and was as about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face.

[sologdin]

dunno.  nuance and subtlety and nonobviousness are also eye of the beholder. i thought for instance that the foucauldian components of the judging eye were obvious as fuck to the point of tendentiousness, but it is not normally what is noted in discussions of that novel. 

[.H.]

35 minutes ago, sologdin said:

dunno.  nuance and subtlety and nonobviousness are also eye of the beholder. i thought for instance that the foucauldian components of the judging eye were obvious as fuck to the point of tendentiousness, but it is not normally what is noted in discussions of that novel. 

Well, now you have my interest, even if I barely know much on Foucault.  In the sense of Discipline and Punish I am guessing?  I can certainly follow an allusion to the "Panopticon" and both the "soul" as a ledger (that I've definitely thought of before) and certainly the very structure of Cil-Aujas' basement.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Huh, and here I am thinking the entire series was mostly a not-so-subtle treatise on the dangers of poor engineering and construction, a meditation on structure as weaponry, and an argument for more stringent building codes: we have the collapsed halls in Cil-Aujus trapping the fellowship for the sranc and then the earthquake taking out the WLW.  

See also: Cnauir's demo project in Joktha to improve house to house fighting, Akka bringing down the Sareotic Library, Fanayal collapsing the section of wall at Shimeh.

[Happy Ent]

Moreover, the WLW was born as the result of lax enforcement of building codes.

Quote

Two hundred and fifty-seven years before, a Shigeki builder had saved twenty-eight silver talents by purchasing burnt brick from farther up the River Sempis, where the clay was riddled with sand. Aside from the tan hue, the tenement he raised was indistinguishable from the others. Over the course of the following centuries, the flood-waters had twice risen high enough to lave the southernmost pylons. Though the damage appeared minimal, sheets of material had fallen from the base of the outermost support, lending it a gnawed look, which for some reason, seemed to attract urinating dogs.

It toppled exactly when it should, drawing with it an entire quadrant, collapsing four floors of apartments and crushing all the unfortunates within.

Bakker, R. Scott. The Judging Eye: Book 1 of the Aspect-Emperor (pp. 211-212). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

A hasty reading may misunderstand this as a presentist critique of pre-modern societies, and their insufficient organisation, bureaucracy, and command of materials science. It is not. For  verily – Bakker knows his sources, he is nothing if not intertextual – we have in Deuteronomy 22:8 New King James Version (NKJV):

Quote

When you build a new house, then you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring guilt of bloodshed on your household if anyone falls from it.

Building codes ever have fallen within the compass of what is holy, what is exalted. Building codes are not merely read and followed. They are Witnessed.

Thematically, the birth-and-death of the White-Luck Warrior by neglicence ties in with Ouroboros, the snake devouring itself. There is also a postmodernist reading in the tradition of Lacan, where the collapse of a building must be understood as an anti-erection. Then, the relationship between the WLW (the result of an anti-erection) to Psatma Nannaferi is anti-Oedipal; their eventual copulation an inversion of the complex.

These books reward a close reading.

[sologdin]

an allusion to the "Panopticon" and both the "soul" as a ledger

right.  the text is all over discipline & punish, from the title on down. there's probably more that can be done with them, such as how the inchoroi approach to sex is quite literally an ars erotica, whereas the dunyain approach is equally literally a scientia sexualis.

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 hours ago, Happy Ent said:

Moreover, the WLW was born as the result of lax enforcement of building codes.

A hasty reading may misunderstand this as a presentist critique of pre-modern societies, and their insufficient organisation, bureaucracy, and command of materials science. It is not. For  verily – Bakker knows his sources, he is nothing if not intertextual – we have in Deuteronomy 22:8 New King James Version (NKJV):

Building codes ever have fallen within the compass of what is holy, what is exalted. Building codes are not merely read and followed. They are Witnessed.

Thematically, the birth-and-death of the White-Luck Warrior by neglicence ties in with Ouroboros, the snake devouring itself. There is also a postmodernist reading in the tradition of Lacan, where the collapse of a building must be understood as an anti-erection. Then, the relationship between the WLW (the result of an anti-erection) to Psatma Nannaferi is anti-Oedipal; their eventual copulation an inversion of the complex.

These books reward a close reading.

10/10