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Bakker LVI: the Rectum of Creation

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12 hours ago, gigaputty said:

This is what I think as well. WHat TUC quote do you mean by the way?

Quote

“Since Dagliash,” the Anasûrimbor said. “But I have suspected this eventuality all along. I assumed Ishuäl would be found once my existence became known. I knew the Consult would assault it with due fury, and that our Garden would succumb, eventually ...”
[...]
“How long did it take to purge the Thousand Thousand Halls?” the Aspect-Emperor asked.
“One thousand six-hundred and eleven days,” the second figure replied. He alone appeared unscarred and intact, though his attitude was so remote as to be cruel.
“We could not cope with the Erratics,” the third added. This one bore two great scars on his head: the first a vaginal pit in lieu of his right eye; and the second more subtle, a slash the length of a hand-scythe, rimming the perimeter of his head from crown to throat, as if someone had abandoned an attempt to remove his face.
“That is,” the Aspect-Emperor said, “until they took you captive.”
[...]
“I always knew that some of you would be captured,” the Anasûrimbor explained, “that you would begin, as I began, by pandering to the conceits of your decrepit masters ...”
Did that not mean they stood before five powers equal to Anasûrimbor Kellhus?
“I always knew that you would master your captivity, the way Dûnyain master all circumstances ...”
Curse Likaro! Curse him and his conniving deceit!
“And very soon, conquer the Unholy Consult from within.”

I edited out the parts that don't matter.  TUC, chapter 18.

Makes me wonder though, that does "that you would begin, as I began" mean here?  Who were the "decrepit masters" Kellhus pander to?

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Yeah, that's even worse. He doesn't say that he thought it was a good chance - he 'always knew' some would be captured. 

So Dunyain being in charge of the Consult had to be part of his planning, if not his plan. And apparently he thought that that would somehow be a better use of resources than killing them himself. 

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Given all the talk about conditioning in this series, is it possible that Kellhus was conditioned never to return to Ishual?  After all, all the circumstances of Meonghus leaving and then Kellhus being sent after him are super weird.  Might the Dunyain have made some sort of insurance policy to ensure that their corrupted son did not return? 

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I'm not sure why it seems surprising to want to take an army - there are so many untracked variables in Golgoterrath. It's not like he's planning just to sneak in and steal some shit then run away. An army brings it's own series of untracked variables for the enemy to face. And basically a Dunyain plans it that when they screw up someone else suffers for the fault - you have to bring others to suffer in order to be able to plan that way. The great ordeal were Kellhus' hit points.

And that's just at the basics. At higher levels of thought - he was probably just as mad as a hatter. May as well have had the Joker in charge...oh wait they did, really. Sane at the basic levels, then more and more insane at the more complex levels of thought.

 

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You have to have an army, teenage Bakker loved big fantasy armies, can’t have a story without an army. Simplest explanation. :-p

kellhus desiring the consult to be conquered from within is fascinating other than not fitting with anything else. 

The whole Ajokli possession really messes everything up, and effectively zeros out all analysis or interpretation of events. Plot holes are always “because ajokli” motivation is always “because ajokli” mistakes are always “because ajokli” and so on and so forth.

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I did have the same, "Wait, what was the point of the Army moment?" when reading TUC, and before the Bakker AMA I assumed he did it because he wanted to damn his entire Army and make them his eager accomplices in turning the world into even more of a Hell-World after becoming Ajokli. That or they were part of his sacrifice to Ajokli in exchange for power - I'm really curious what Kellhus offered to the God and what he expected to get in return if he didn't plan on turning into Ajokli at the end. 

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14 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Given all the talk about conditioning in this series, is it possible that Kellhus was conditioned never to return to Ishual?  After all, all the circumstances of Meonghus leaving and then Kellhus being sent after him are super weird.  Might the Dunyain have made some sort of insurance policy to ensure that their corrupted son did not return? 

I find that extremely unlikely and there is no textual evidence to support that Dunyain can be programmed in this way. After you complete Dunyain training you're pretty much immune to other dunyain afaik - Korhinghus says he astounded the other dunyain with his gifts and Kellhus was also something of a prodigy. 

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Here's a christmas game - if readers are the gods (so to speak), which of the hundred are you? Are you one of the bellicose gods?

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Posted (edited)

Does anyone have a higher quality map from his website? :https://secondapocalypse.ca/ . Can't open the file and can't see the whole thing...

 

I never seen that version before.

Edited by Lutarez

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Posted (edited)
On 1/3/2019 at 7:55 AM, Lutarez said:

Does anyone have a higher quality map from his website? :https://secondapocalypse.ca/ . Can't open the file and can't see the whole thing...

 

I never seen that version before.

How about this: https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/c172640c-de47-42b3-ad05-2492648bafc9/5ab6e099-270e-483f-8a9e-937b96048532.jpg

That's the original, unresized image from the site, it's 2231x2560.  I have no idea where it came from, I think someone just "colorized" the one from the book (probably Jason).

Edited by .H.

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Sorry to bomb in completely unrelated to discussion but I was trying to look back at the information about the dragon that Akka finds in the 2nd trilogy....I can't seem to find it though. Can anyone give insight/details about the beast and the encounter? Been googling for 45 minutes and nothing....I'm starting to think I dreamt this whole encounter up LOL

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9 hours ago, Wik said:

Sorry to bomb in completely unrelated to discussion but I was trying to look back at the information about the dragon that Akka finds in the 2nd trilogy....I can't seem to find it though. Can anyone give insight/details about the beast and the encounter? Been googling for 45 minutes and nothing....I'm starting to think I dreamt this whole encounter up LOL

I imagine you are talking about Wutteät, when Akka and Cleric encounter him.  It's chapter 15 of White-Luck Warrior.

I'm not sure what information you are looking for though.  Like, who Wutteät is?

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11 hours ago, .H. said:

I imagine you are talking about Wutteät, when Akka and Cleric encounter him.  It's chapter 15 of White-Luck Warrior.

I'm not sure what information you are looking for though.  Like, who Wutteät is?

Thanks!

 

Ya was just trying to recall the history and specifics they revealed and the interactions. I recently moved so my books are in storage and without specific info I wasn't finding much. 

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On 1/15/2019 at 5:24 PM, Wik said:

Thanks!

 

Ya was just trying to recall the history and specifics they revealed and the interactions. I recently moved so my books are in storage and without specific info I wasn't finding much. 

It’s at the end of the second book. Ultimately, based on the fourth book, Wutteat reveals very little, functioning very much as a red herring, but he does force a confrontation between Akka and cleric and wutteat gives cleric battle circumstances he will accept as a proper death. 

It also has perhaps my favorite line of the series “Hell sustains him from within!” When cleric explains that he is a sort of zombie dragon corpse.

 

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On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 9:31 PM, Triskele said:

IT IS NOT PERMISSIBLE TO DISCUSS WUTTEAT WITHOUT DISCUSSING HOW WUTTEAT DISCUSSES

Its been so long since I read it, but I am guessing this is some kind of shot at the chapter/section that featured him lol

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