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Ser Scot A Ellison

Dutch man sues to change his legal age

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I can’t tell if he’s trolling or if he is serious:

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/08/665592537/69-year-old-dutch-man-seeks-to-change-his-legal-age-to-49

From the article:

Emile Ratelband, a 69-year-old motivational speaker from the Netherlands, has petitioned a court for permission to change his legal age — by altering his birth certificate to show he was born 20 years later than he really was.

Ratelband argues that he feels two decades younger than he actually is — doctors told him he has the body of a younger man, he says. While in most cases that compliment is rhetorical, Ratelband is taking a more literal approach. He also says having a younger age on paper would give him a boost in life and on dating apps.

He presented his argument before a judge on Monday

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1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

I'm not on dating websites, but couldn't he just lie? 

At the end of the article he says he doesn’t want to “lie”.  As though legally changing his date of birth will change the date he was born.

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3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

At the end of the article he says he doesn’t want to “lie”.  As though legally changing his date of birth will change the date he was born.

Correction. He does not want to be caught out in a bald faced, easily provable lie. I have to admit he is smarter than Trump in this.

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I didn't realize your age was something you could legally change, it seems like one of those things, like place of birth, that are just set in stone.

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26 minutes ago, Fez said:

I didn't realize your age was something you could legally change, it seems like one of those things, like place of birth, that are just set in stone.

The Dutch Judge who reviewed his petition was “Skeptical” that this could be done but went on to say “maybe”.

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42 minutes ago, maarsen said:

Correction. He does not want to be caught out in a bald faced, easily provable lie. I have to admit he is smarter than Trump in this.

He has been a public figure for decades, the lie will still be provable.

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58 minutes ago, Fez said:

I didn't realize your age was something you could legally change, it seems like one of those things, like place of birth, that are just set in stone.

People can change the gender of their kids nowadays, it was only a matter of time before they went further.

Edited by SweetPea

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6 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

People can change the gender of their kids nowadays, it was only a matter of time before they go further.

It was, indeed, 'only a matter of time' before someone made this spurious comparison.

Age isn't gender, any more than it is height, or weight, or hair colour, or, well, anything except age. Age is its own thing. It changes all the time, but it isn't otherwise mutable or variable in any sense. There are people of different ages, but aging is a universal characteristic.

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17 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

People can change the gender of their kids nowadays, it was only a matter of time before they went further.

Ugh. I knew someone was going to go right ahead and make an asinine comment like this sooner or later. 

The body ages, and that age is calculated by the calendar year which is not going anywhere soon so as long as we count time in years, we are going to be a certain age. I thought this was simple stuff. 

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6 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

Ugh. I knew someone was going to go right ahead and make an asinine comment like this sooner or later. 

The body ages, and that age is calculated by the calendar year which is not going anywhere soon so as long as we count time in years, we are going to be a certain age. I thought this was simple stuff. 

Yup,  when i read about this guy i thought that he  "wanted" to change he's age to "prove" a point about gender or some such nonsense. 

And i guess the troll above confirms my suspicions. 

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Just now, Conflicting Thought said:

Yup,  when i read about this guy i thought that he  "wanted" to change he's age to "prove" a point about gender or some such nonsense. 

And i guess the troll above confirms my suspicions. 

Yes; as SOON as I saw this article I knew what everyone would be saying about gender and the first comment on the twitter thread I saw for it was just that. *eyeroll* 

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27 minutes ago, mormont said:

It was, indeed, 'only a matter of time' before someone made this spurious comparison.

Age isn't gender, any more than it is height, or weight, or hair colour, or, well, anything except age. Age is its own thing. It changes all the time, but it isn't otherwise mutable or variable in any sense. There are people of different ages, but aging is a universal characteristic.

The gender you were born with isn't variable either (unless you have a rare genetic defect), it's pretty much set in stone, or in your chromosomes to be more precise.  Sure you can undergo hormone therapies and various surgeries to mask it or to feel different, but it won't change the underlying reality. Same with age.

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The sex/gender distinction might be helpful here. Biological sex is not supposed to equal socially constructed gender identity. It could work the same for age. There will be certain biological facts about the body that are not amenable to social interpretation but there will be a whole host of other characteristics that we associate with age that will be.

For instance certain roles are expected of people at certain ages, they might be supposed to have achieved certain things in their lives or to have acquired a certain level of maturity. We get pigeonholed in categories like millennial or generation x. At certain ages people will face different sorts of discrimination, such as +50s returning to the job market.  A way of describing age that coheres not with biology but social conventions would play the same role as the gender category does to the notion of biological sex. For some the social recognition that their social age differs from their biological age could be of vast importance to their self esteem.

Give it 15 years, all those laughing at how ridiculous this is could be on the naughty step, just like Germaine Greer.

 

Edited by Chaircat Meow

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26 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

The gender you were born with isn't variable either (unless you have a rare genetic defect), it's pretty much set in stone, or in your chromosomes to be more precise.  Sure you can undergo hormone therapies and various surgeries to mask it or to feel different, but it won't change the underlying reality. Same with age.

Gender and chromosomes are entirely different things.

I'd hope that abject ignorance of the subject at hand should perhaps stop people from commenting.

ETA - just to make this clear: the subject of this thread is not, and never will be, the existence of trans persons or the validity of their existence. If you want to express your opinions about the subject at hand, feel free. But we're drawing a line under this comparison here. Further posts about that will be deleted as off-topic. 

Edited by mormont

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Just now, mormont said:

I'd hope that abject ignorance of the subject at hand should perhaps stop people from commenting.

A lack of knowledge, context, and insight is often the greatest spur to opening one’s cesspool of a mouth and if one shouts their ignorance loud enough, they may even become leader of the free world.  

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Well, this really is an epistemological question as to what exactly is a fact?  And so, what then is knowledge?

While there are definitely knee-jerk reactions and appeals to "common sense" answers, the fact that the likes of Kant, Locke, and many many really smart people throughout history could even plausibly debate this for hundred of years and not have a definitive answer makes me very skeptical of any definitive one posited by anyone really.

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10 minutes ago, Tears of Lys said:

The one thing I'm sure of is that I don't know anything.

Demonstrably false: you are sure you don't know.

Edited by .H.

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