.H. Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said: This was my reaction too. The classic liberal movement brought the Enlightenment to impose objective reality in place of the longstanding spiritual reality, while Descartes and others introduced subjectivism. As classic liberalism becomes increasingly ingrained in our thought patterns and culture, we start to see a push for subjective truth to receive greater respect and accommodation. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I am most certainly both an intellectual light-weight, along with being an academic light-weight and a philosophical one as well, so it is often hard for me to tell when my "initial takes" on something could be decidedly off. I am trying to read more philosophical stuff lately, but since I am mostly stupid, I can't exactly read the "greats" directly without being hopelessly lost. 12 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said: It becomes interesting to decide to what extent should subjective truths accommodate each other provided they don’t conflict directly with objective truth (commanding the tide to stop, or stepping off a high building to fly). No laws of physics are broken if everyone agrees to a fiction that he was born 20 years later. No time travel occurred, he was still in existence for those 20 years, his future senescence and eventual death are unaffected. So it is purely a social construct to call him one age or another, as are most of the subjective truths that people attempt to externalize. Right, that is an interesting question, which I think then runs head long into the problem of defining exactly what qualifies something as "objective truth." Certain things seem self-evidently to qualify, like your examples, because we, in our modern world-views often default to a keen understanding the objective nature of objects, yet that isn't really helpful in this case. 19 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said: So how far do we wish to indulge the potentially infinite subjective truths of all individuals in the entire world? Now that is a really interesting question. Once upon a time, I'd have very thoughtlessly advocated for a very Post-Modern take that all subjective truths must be equally valid, or at least, certainly treated as such. Now, having read more, I'm really not too keen on Post-Modernism at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 hours ago, .H. said: Demonstrably false: you are sure you don't know. Yes. That's the irony of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tears of Lys said: Yes. That's the irony of it. It's likely more than just irony, it speaks to the deeper foundation of what we can construe as "reality" a la Descartes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik of Hazelfield Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Ok I just now read the article. I guess the part that actually makes sense is that he wants to postpone his retirement benefits in exchange for a fair chance at getting a job. At that point I could sympathise with the public stunt that I thought it was - to highlight age discrimination. Then he said the part about not wanting to lie in dating apps and compared it to transgender rights and immediately he showed what an idiot and asshole he really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, Erik of Hazelfield said: Ok I just now read the article. I guess the part that actually makes sense is that he wants to postpone his retirement benefits in exchange for a fair chance at getting a job. At that point I could sympathise with the public stunt that I thought it was - to highlight age discrimination. Then he said the part about not wanting to lie in dating apps and compared it to transgender rights and immediately he showed what an idiot and asshole he really is. It’s still just a stunt, it’s only that that age discrimination in employment (which is already illegal) is the only part of his “cause” that seems reasonable or sympathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 [mod] Guys: most of you have been around long enough not to need a periodic reminder. But here's one anyway. Discussion of moderator actions, actual or potential, is always going to be off-topic. Don't speculate about whether or when a thread is going to be locked. Don't discuss whether or why a post was deleted. If you really have a question that just has to be answered, ask a moderator privately. Don't clutter up a thread with it. [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said: It’s still just a stunt, it’s only that that age discrimination in employment (which is already illegal) is the only part of his “cause” that seems reasonable or sympathetic. That may be, but postponing the retirement benefits is also the thing that makes this a non-starter. I don't know the exact answer to your question about how far we're willing to go to indulge subjective truths, but I do know that the latter get quashed quickly when they're not revenue neutral. For example, childless individuals may not claim to have 5 children on their tax forms regardless of the strength of their belief and healthy people may not claim disability insurance solely because they believe themselves to be disabled (some people do such things of course and may even get away with it, but it is considered fraud). If an older person may postpone retirement benefits by claiming to be younger, why is a younger person not allowed to collect retirement benefits sooner by claiming to be older? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 13 hours ago, Tears of Lys said: The one thing I'm sure of is that I don't know anything. Hello, Socrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Winter Rose Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Was that guy a homophobe transphobe before in his speeches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said: Was that guy a homophobe transphobe before in his speeches? No clue actually, so I did some searching. He was in the news in 2009 with homophobic remarks, calling gay people abnormal and unnatural. My search didn't get any results for any transphobia. He has been convicted for assaulting his (ex-)wife, only got 25 hours of community service. And that was after taking it up to the highest courts here. He seems to have published a book claiming that people's looks tell a lot about how they are, basically rehashing racism as well as Lombroso's anthropological criminology. Piece of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Stuff like this is why im glad I don't follow my country's news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Red Tiger said: Stuff like this is why im glad I don't follow my country's news. As far as I can tell it didn't make a blip in local news until it was picked up internationally somehow. To great bemusement of local news sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Seli said: As far as I can tell it didn't make a blip in local news until it was picked up internationally somehow. To great bemusement of local news sources. In other words he is trolling and I bought it hook, line, and sinker. The Dutch press knew better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/10/2018 at 2:09 AM, The Marquis de Leech said: Hello, Socrates. I knew I heard it somewhere. (But it was really through Plato. I'm much too young to have heard it directly from Socrates.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 9gag's take on it:https://9gag.com/gag/amB8RQy?ref=fsidebar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 9:58 PM, Seli said: As far as I can tell it didn't make a blip in local news until it was picked up internationally somehow. To great bemusement of local news sources. Eh, im not THAT surprised to be honest. Sensationalizing stuff is not a Dutch thing anyway. Same way we deal with Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Denied! https://nypost.com/2018/12/03/man-loses-bid-to-lower-age-on-birth-certificate-by-20-years/ Quote “But amending his date of birth would cause 20 years of records to vanish from the register of births, deaths, marriages and registered partnerships. This would have a variety of undesirable legal and societal implications,” the court said. ... The Arnhem court rejected Ratelband’s argument, saying that Dutch law assigns rights and duties based on age “such as the right to vote and the duty to attend school.” “If Mr. Ratelband’s request was allowed, those age requirements would become meaningless,” it said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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