College Football 2018: Its Tua's world... we're just living in it

[Ferrum Aeternum]

8 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I guess the reason why Saban didn't end up trashing headsets on the sidelines was that he recognized that most of the bad came from him, and how out-coached he was. 

Yep. Bama has lost games under Saban but they've never been outcoached to that degree. The talent gap (if there is one) isn't wide enough to account for an ass beating like that. 

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Even if it was a route, it sounds like this may be a game worth finding to watch somewhere online. #EuropeanExpat

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I wouldn’t say Saban got terribly outcoached. Alabama just got all the bad bounces while Clemson played a perfect game. Also, it doesn’t hurt that Rivals considered Lawrence to be the best QB prospect they ever seen. They said his ceiling is a more mobile Manning with a much stronger arm.

[Maithanet]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Amazing stat: The last time Nick Saban lost by more than two TDs was in 2006 against star QB J.P. Losman of the Buffalo Bills.

Even better stat:  The last time Alabama football lost a game by 20+ points was a 27-3 loss in 2003 vs LSU.  The coach of that LSU team?  Nick Saban. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

31 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Even better stat:  The last time Alabama football lost a game by 20+ points was a 27-3 loss in 2003 vs LSU.  The coach of that LSU team?  Nick Saban. 

Ha. That’s awesome. Another stat I saw is since we moved to the playoff system, if you remove the times Alabama and Clemson played each other, their combined record is 106-4. Stunning.  

[Bronn Stone]

I totally saw that coming, but was afraid to monetize that knowledge.  I'm never sure whether I see something or am seeing what I REALLY want to see.

[Kalbear]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I wouldn’t say Saban got terribly outcoached. Alabama just got all the bad bounces while Clemson played a perfect game. Also, it doesn’t hurt that Rivals considered Lawrence to be the best QB prospect they ever seen. They said his ceiling is a more mobile Manning with a much stronger arm.

Hah no

https://twitter.com/richardhtx/status/1082481516570202112

[S John]

5 hours ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

Even if it was a route, it sounds like this may be a game worth finding to watch somewhere online. #EuropeanExpat

I think so, if for no other reason than it is a novelty to see Alabama get blown out.  

[HokieStone]

Well, I'm always happy to see Alabama get their ass kicked, and I'm happy that an ACC team did it.  I can't help but marvel - and be a little (ok, a lot) jealous of how Clemson turned their program around.  VT was more or less the king of the ACC from 2003 - 2010.  Then in 2011, we had one regular season loss - to Clemson, and then lost the ACC championship game to Clemson.  Looking back, it was clearly a passing of the torch - well, more like Clemson grabbing the torch.  In 2011, the two schools were roughly operating on the same budget (I think VT actually had a higher budget at the time).  But Clemson's fundraising - and recruiting - took off after that. 

I remember thinking that Dabo Swinney was a lazy hire - they just went down the hall and hired a WR coach no one had ever heard of (and one that came off as kind of goofy).  Well, that worked out for them, I'd say.  Right guy at the right time.  They got a personable, energetic, young coach right when social media and the like was starting to ramp up with respect to recruiting.  Meanwhile Frank Beamer - beloved as he is - was entering the twilight of his career, and didn't really adapt to the changes happening in college football.  I also look back 20 years to 1998...when VT beat Clemson 37-0, and Alabama 38-7 in the same season.  Sigh.

In this day and age, I don't know how anyone that's not in the upper 10 or 15 of college football elite can break in and challenge.  Clemson did it somehow - even though they had one previous NC in the 80s, it was not so long ago that "Clemsoning" was a thing.  VT had their chance in the 2000s and never quite made it over the hump.  Oregon never quite made it (although they may have the budget to challenge again).  But it's hard for me to see someone outside the Texas', USC's, Michigans, etc. be able to get the level that Alabama and Clemson are at now.  Which is a little depressing.  I am certainly not pining for Alabama-Clemson V next year.  Obviously I'd love to see VT be able to challenge at that level, but I'd like to see any school from the "next tier down" challenge.  A Michigan St., or Wisconsin, or Colorado, or Iowa....but that may be wishful thinking.  I love college football much more than the NFL, but the "rich get richer" syndrome is fatiguing.

[Rhom]

On 1/8/2019 at 10:57 PM, HokieStone said:

Well, I'm always happy to see Alabama get their ass kicked, and I'm happy that an ACC team did it.  I can't help but marvel - and be a little (ok, a lot) jealous of how Clemson turned their program around.  VT was more or less the king of the ACC from 2003 - 2010.  Then in 2011, we had one regular season loss - to Clemson, and then lost the ACC championship game to Clemson.  Looking back, it was clearly a passing of the torch - well, more like Clemson grabbing the torch.  In 2011, the two schools were roughly operating on the same budget (I think VT actually had a higher budget at the time).  But Clemson's fundraising - and recruiting - took off after that. 

I remember thinking that Dabo Swinney was a lazy hire - they just went down the hall and hired a WR coach no one had ever heard of (and one that came off as kind of goofy).  Well, that worked out for them, I'd say.  Right guy at the right time.  They got a personable, energetic, young coach right when social media and the like was starting to ramp up with respect to recruiting.  Meanwhile Frank Beamer - beloved as he is - was entering the twilight of his career, and didn't really adapt to the changes happening in college football.  I also look back 20 years to 1998...when VT beat Clemson 37-0, and Alabama 38-7 in the same season.  Sigh.

In this day and age, I don't know how anyone that's not in the upper 10 or 15 of college football elite can break in and challenge.  Clemson did it somehow - even though they had one previous NC in the 80s, it was not so long ago that "Clemsoning" was a thing.  VT had their chance in the 2000s and never quite made it over the hump.  Oregon never quite made it (although they may have the budget to challenge again).  But it's hard for me to see someone outside the Texas', USC's, Michigans, etc. be able to get the level that Alabama and Clemson are at now.  Which is a little depressing.  I am certainly not pining for Alabama-Clemson V next year.  Obviously I'd love to see VT be able to challenge at that level, but I'd like to see any school from the "next tier down" challenge.  A Michigan St., or Wisconsin, or Colorado, or Iowa....but that may be wishful thinking.  I love college football much more than the NFL, but the "rich get richer" syndrome is fatiguing.

I have similar thoughts.  Kentucky beat Clemson in the Music City Bowl in 2007... the two programs went on slightly different trajectories from that point on.  

And yes, it is extremely frustrating to feel that you may never break through.  Kentucky has had their best recruiting classes in school history the last few years.  Even being in the top 25 classes nationwide... which is good enough for 12th in the SEC..  

i think the early signing period does help though.  No longer can Bama and Ohio State use lesser programs as glorified scouting departments.  Letting them find and recruit kids only to swoop in and flip the kid in the spring.

10 hours ago, Triskele said:

Would Lawrence not easily be the #1 player taken in the NFL draft if he could come out?  He looks beyond NFL ready.  Wonder when that rule gets changed.  

Easily.  You might want to ask Maurice Clarett when it will be overturned.

[S John]

I take @Rhom and @HokieStone ‘s teams’ victories over Clemson, and raise both of y’all WVU’s 2012 orange bowl 70-33 victory over Dabo.  I legit think that game is one of the most significant college football games in recent history because that game was the game that taught Dabo that it was time to get serious.   That public de-pantsing was the final, and crown jewel, of the phenomenon known as ‘Clemsoning’.  

Not since has someone so thoroughly embarrassed the Tigers.  I honestly hope we never play Clemson again.  I do not want that complete dismantling being something that they can refer to in order to generate some locker room enthusiasm before the next time they play the Mountaineers.  

Let that victory stand as a monument to the old Clemson Tigers, before the machine of today was born.

If I could switch trajectories after that game with Clemson in 2012, I absolutely would.  WVU has been aggressively mediocre while Clemson has soared to great heights.  But I truly believe that it was that specific ass whipping that created Clemson as we know it.  

[Ramsay B.]

3 hours ago, S John said:

I take @Rhom and @HokieStone ‘s teams’ victories over Clemson, and raise both of y’all WVU’s 2012 orange bowl 70-33 victory over Dabo.  I legit think that game is one of the most significant college football games in recent history because that game was the game that taught Dabo that it was time to get serious.   That public de-pantsing was the final, and crown jewel, of the phenomenon known as ‘Clemsoning’.  

Not since has someone so thoroughly embarrassed the Tigers.  I honestly hope we never play Clemson again.  I do not want that complete dismantling being something that they can refer to in order to generate some locker room enthusiasm before the next time they play the Mountaineers.  

Well in 2013 FSU did come into Death Valley while the Tigers were #3 and blew them out 51-14 on national tv. I can’t believe that was over 5 years ago already.

I still remember when Clemson beat FSU in 2003 and being disgusted to lose to a scrub team. Now look at them. They could’ve dropped 80 on the Noles this year if they wanted to. Sadly for me, they have become the alpha of the ACC and it’s not even close. 

[S John]

5 hours ago, Ramsay B. said:

Well in 2013 FSU did come into Death Valley while the Tigers were #3 and blew them out 51-14 on national tv. I can’t believe that was over 5 years ago already.

I still remember when Clemson beat FSU in 2003 and being disgusted to lose to a scrub team. Now look at them. They could’ve dropped 80 on the Noles this year if they wanted to. Sadly for me, they have become the alpha of the ACC and it’s not even close. 

I like how everyone has a ‘that time my team blew out Clemson’ story.  But 2 national championships later, the joke is on us.  

[Ferrum Aeternum]

I think it's interesting how no one ever questions Clemson's meteoric rise to the top of college football. It's a historically "pretty good" program that previously only won a single national championship (1981), and that one highly questionable under a known Cheaty McCheaterson head coach (Danny Ford). Prior to this recent run, they'd slogged through about 30 years of 5-8 win seasons. Plus, they aren't a big money program. Their own in-state rival generates significantly more revenue in their athletic department. Clemson ranks about 20th overall in that area. 

Not saying they're doing anything wrong (honestly, I don't think they are). I just find it interesting that no one ever casts doubt or asks a single question about how they so quickly ascended to this pinnacle. 

[Rhom]

3 minutes ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

I think it's interesting how no one ever questions Clemson's meteoric rise to the top of college football. It's a historically "pretty good" program that previously only won a single national championship (1981), and that one highly questionable under a known Cheaty McCheaterson head coach (Danny Ford). Prior to this recent run, they'd slogged through about 30 years of 5-8 win seasons. Plus, they aren't a big money program. Their own in-state rival generates significantly more revenue in their athletic department. Clemson ranks about 20th overall in that area. 

Not saying they're doing anything wrong (honestly, I don't think they are). I just find it interesting that no one ever casts doubt or asks a single question about how they so quickly ascended to this pinnacle. 

This is a good point.  I'm sure you remember everyone looking askance at Ole Miss when they signed the number one player in the country. (turns out with good cause, but hey... who's counting???)  But you're right that I don't hear anyone level accusations at Clemson.  Is it just Dabo's "Aww Shucks" Andy Griffith routine?  What's the secret?

[S John]

I think its as straightforward as Dabo is probably really great with recruits while also being a capable program CEO, and that Clemson, SC is located about halfway between Charlotte and Atlanta.  

They are local for recruits in the Carolinas and Georgia, and you could easily field a good team just farming the best of those 3 states, but they are also only one state removed from Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, and Virginia.  With their growing dominance they can probably pull the pick of the litter from those states as well.  

[HokieStone]

On 1/11/2019 at 8:46 AM, Ferrum Aeternum said:

I think it's interesting how no one ever questions Clemson's meteoric rise to the top of college football. It's a historically "pretty good" program that previously only won a single national championship (1981), and that one highly questionable under a known Cheaty McCheaterson head coach (Danny Ford). Prior to this recent run, they'd slogged through about 30 years of 5-8 win seasons. Plus, they aren't a big money program. Their own in-state rival generates significantly more revenue in their athletic department. Clemson ranks about 20th overall in that area. 

Not saying they're doing anything wrong (honestly, I don't think they are). I just find it interesting that no one ever casts doubt or asks a single question about how they so quickly ascended to this pinnacle. 

There are rumors, they're just not significant.  Just last week on a VT board, someone that is acknowledged as an "insider" in the local recruiting arena claimed that there were known instances of recruits finding envelopes with $5k in their dorm rooms.  Now...l say he's acknowledged as an "insider"...but it's still an anonymous message board guy...so who the hell really knows.  Any marginally successful team, much less one that has rocked up like Clemson, will have their share of people who claim they pay players. 

Honestly, the thing that bothers me most about Clemson is the semi-cultish religious aspect that Dabo has in place.  I know religion and football go hand in hand in the South (having to stand for a prayer before our kickoff game against Alabama a few years ago was really...weird) - but it's definitely been ramped up at Clemson.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Jalen Hurts to Oklahoma, which is probably his best possible landing spot. He's not Mayfield or Murray but he should still excel in that offense. 

[Rhom]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:16 AM, S John said:

I like how everyone has a ‘that time my team blew out Clemson’ story.  But 2 national championships later, the joke is on us.  

I was thinking about this some more as I read it again today... its like that great episode of Batman TAS "Almost got him" where the villains are all sitting around telling about the time they almost got Batman.   

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, Rhom said:

I was thinking about this some more as I read it again today... its like that great episode of Batman TAS "Almost got him" where the villains are all sitting around telling about the time they almost got Batman.   

That was always my favorite episode.