DaveSumm Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, sifth said: Wait, so this is a third timeline we have here? I'm so confused with Trek these days. As far as my conversation with Wert went a few pages back, the Prime Universe, the JJ verse and the Mirror Universe are all coexisting parallel universes. Then there’s time splits within a universe, such as Yesterday’s Enterprise and (conjecture at this point) possibly the Red Angel’s interactions with this (prime) universe. But we don’t know if all the events of the prime universe are a result of her interactions, or whether this is a tangent from the prime that will get undone (or not). So if it’s a tangent, then we have possible reason Spock never mentioned Michael (she died when he was young). But I’m willing to bet it’s not considering all the efforts they’ve gone to to crowbar this stuff into the Prime, seems silly to then cop-out like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: As far as my conversation with Wert went a few pages back, the Prime Universe, the JJ verse and the Mirror Universe are all coexisting parallel universes. Then there’s time splits within a universe, such as Yesterday’s Enterprise and (conjecture at this point) possibly the Red Angel’s interactions with this (prime) universe. But we don’t know if all the events of the prime universe are a result of her interactions, or whether this is a tangent from the prime that will get undone (or not). So if it’s a tangent, then we have possible reason Spock never mentioned Michael (she died when he was young). But I’m willing to bet it’s not considering all the efforts they’ve gone to to crowbar this stuff into the Prime, seems silly to then cop-out like that. Dam it, why is Trek so convoluted these days? I mean I know legally why it is, but dam even story wise it's starting to feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, sifth said: Wait, so this is a third timeline we have here? I'm so confused with Trek these days. Well the spore drive is still in play, and that's something that never gets mentioned "in universe". At this point, the whole thing is open enough that the writers can, at anytime, declare that this is a new timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I wasn't looking to open a can of worms on the continuity, just acknowledge a particular interaction between two characters that I find very entertaining and real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, karaddin said: I wasn't looking to open a can of worms on the continuity, just acknowledge a particular interaction between two characters that I find very entertaining and real I know, I was just trying to see if the elephant in the room was ever addressed. It's sort of been my biggest issue since this series started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Well, Section 31 being widely known about and basically operating in the open hasn't been addressed yet either, but I assume it will be. I mean we can see the outllines of why, but currently it's still a contradiction to existing canon. As to Micheal / Spock - if it's possible she's never mentioned because she died as a child, it's also possible that her parents survive the Klingon attack and they continue to live as a family. I prefer that wrinkle IF they do a soft-reset via time. Either way I'm not sure it would work without doing some serious damage to the structure of the show. It could work for a series finale, but they have been renewed for a third season. The hand-waving will have to be really, really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 58 minutes ago, Gertrude said: Well, Section 31 being widely known about and basically operating in the open hasn't been addressed yet either, but I assume it will be. I mean we can see the outllines of why, but currently it's still a contradiction to existing canon. As to Micheal / Spock - if it's possible she's never mentioned because she died as a child, it's also possible that her parents survive the Klingon attack and they continue to live as a family. I prefer that wrinkle IF they do a soft-reset via time. Either way I'm not sure it would work without doing some serious damage to the structure of the show. It could work for a series finale, but they have been renewed for a third season. The hand-waving will have to be really, really good. Section 31 back in the DS9 days were so cool. You'd go to bed, wake up and suddenly one of their operatives would be in front of you. Then he'd walk out the door, you'd follow him and suddenly he'd be gone. Why can't we get awesome writing like that anymore, ha ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 So I've seen the theory a couple of times that Control winds up being the Borg origin and I don't think that's off the wall. What I haven't seen any connection to is the human settlement in the Delta quadrant - the plot thread seemed resolved at the time, but from what we know of the Red Angel now we have no clue why they would have been saved in that matter and the Delta quadrant is where the Borg wind up emerging so I wouldn't be surprised if it loops back around and the settlement comes up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 10 hours ago, karaddin said: So I've seen the theory a couple of times that Control winds up being the Borg origin and I don't think that's off the wall. What I haven't seen any connection to is the human settlement in the Delta quadrant - the plot thread seemed resolved at the time, but from what we know of the Red Angel now we have no clue why they would have been saved in that matter and the Delta quadrant is where the Borg wind up emerging so I wouldn't be surprised if it loops back around and the settlement comes up again. Before I continue how far are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said: Before I continue how far are you? Current - Michael's mother did not send the signals and unless I missed it there is no indication for why she would have saved those people and put a settlement out in the middle of the Delta quadrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, karaddin said: Current - Michael's mother did not send the signals and unless I missed it there is no indication for why she would have saved those people and put a settlement out in the middle of the Delta quadrant. Terralysium is in the Beta Quadrant about 51,000 light years from the Federation, in "New Eden" Pike says at maximum warp it would take 150 years to make it home. And I think she took them to preserve humanity. It is in act one of the most recent episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Ah I misremembered where it was, probably thrown off by how far it was but forgetting maximum warp now is a lot slower than Voyager. And I'm not sure why I missed it at the start of this episode, maybe just if it was mentioned by name and I didn't remember it by name. Any reason for why she saved Saru's people? That's another one with the signal she didn't send but she did show there. It was obvious when I thought it was Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 It was easy to miss, I just happened to catch it. I don't know where they're going with this. I just hope it isn't a Borg origin story. They didn't answer that one, I hope they answer that when they wrap things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Yeah I was less on board with it being a Borg origin and much more just wanting all the pieces to fit together by the end. A general preservation of species thing is an explanation, but not a particularly satisfying one. That means it's just *a* group of humans that were going to die but not that specific group of humans or that particular destination. The morality of that seems quite similar to the traveler program in travelers lol, pick a group that has no future in the time line. And I really want the kelpians or the predator species to have more connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, karaddin said: Yeah I was less on board with it being a Borg origin and much more just wanting all the pieces to fit together by the end. A general preservation of species thing is an explanation, but not a particularly satisfying one. That means it's just *a* group of humans that were going to die but not that specific group of humans or that particular destination. The morality of that seems quite similar to the traveler program in travelers lol, pick a group that has no future in the time line. And I really want the kelpians or the predator species to have more connection. The way she explained it was that them thriving on Terralysium was proof to her that the past could be changed. Anthony Rapp's words give me hope that the ending is going to be satisfactory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 If Control was proto-Borg the later Borg would recognize humanity, unless you're proposing they deliberately erases their own memory? That would be bad retconning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 And we don't know yet what Control's motivations are. Oh, look, another evil AI who 'arrives at the conclusion' that humanity (or all living sentient organisms) need to be destroyed. I hope there's more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Do you think there’s going to be more explanation for the suit? Or ... is it capable of both instantaneous time and space travel, despite apparently being built 20 odd years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: Do you think there’s going to be more explanation for the suit? Or ... is it capable of both instantaneous time and space travel, despite apparently being built 20 odd years ago? My bet is it ties in with pre-control Leland said about technological leaps coming from the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Really annoying that Sec 31 basically has a whole secret fleet of advanced ships. At least they're forcing a battle next episode, so that will probably result in the destruction of that fleet and a return to "normalcy". I really like Pike's part in the episode. Him seeing his fate and how horrible was that image, and still deciding to act was great. Hopefully, if the show decides to have a timeline where Spock has an adopted sister who occasionally spends time with him, then maybe Pike doesn't have to suffer that fate. He's been one of the best characters on this show. On the other hand, the part with the Control nanobots going after Michael. Luckily, we don't have anything on us that's also ferrous, otherwise we would be stupidly stuck on the floor, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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