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Star Trek Discovery #3 [Spoilers] - It's A Wonderful Spock!

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Oh shit, I forgot about the death penalty thingie.

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On 2/25/2019 at 5:40 PM, Heartofice said:

I don’t think we should diminish people’s feelings about a show that means something to them, tell them life is too short or whatever. If something you love gets spoiled and trampled on by a new movie or tv show, then it’s kind of normal to get upset.

Star Trek means a lot to some people, it has inspired a lot of joy and obsession. Personally I’ve only ever had a passing interest in it, but watching Discovery makes me feel a bit angry at some of the decisions they have made, because they just seem so thoughtless and unnecessary. I would like a Star Trek show that either completely does it’s own thing or shows some level of respect and care for what has already been established. Discovery doesn’t really seem to be doing either , especially if it is meant to be a direct prequel.

 

I mean we are on a board for people who liked a certain book series ( maybe tv series), you are going to see levels of interest and obsession here about that. Go on the tv boards and tell people life is too short to be upset worrying about a tv show. Your cries will fall flat.

Oh I'm a fan.  I've enjoyed every version of it since the sixties.  If that doesn't make me a fan, I don't know what does.  I don't go into it with preconceived notions of what it should be and then I don't feel disappointed because they are not met.  What I enjoy are the talents of the people contributing to the show.  I think it looks and  sounds fantastic.  I like the characters and the story.   What good is your anger.  It must be exhausting.

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On 2/28/2019 at 11:31 PM, SpaceChampion said:

The Red Angel is just Commander Sinclair from Bablyon 5, right?  Oh wait, I mean Babylon 4.

More likely a mycelium vorlon but there's no reason why they couldn't borrow two ideas and merge together.

 

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A very cheeky "previously on", but I liked it. I never watched TOS, so I had no idea what this mystery Talos IV connection was.

I liked the episode overall, not so much because of the Spock/Michael relationship, (that revelation went about how I expected) but because of the Red Angel revelation that has implications on this timeline.

Spoiler

So the Red Angel saved Michael's life, thus one can argue the Red Angel created this timeline. If the RA hadn't done it, then Spock would not have had a sister for most of his life, thus he would have really been TOS Spock. Therefore, the RA is CBS, trying to create and maintain a new timeline, with a new look. :P Ok, no, it's Kirk, after he remained in the time rift in Generations, and maybe got thrown out again. ;)

I don't about the Culber arc. It's good in terms of how it's handled, but how much do we need to see of it? Is it going anywhere meaningful?

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3 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I don't about the Culber arc. It's good in terms of how it's handled, but how much do we need to see of it? Is it going anywhere meaningful?

Him and Tyler bumping uglies?

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Don't trust The Witness, her Army of the 12 Monkeys are obviously behind those probes.

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I really actually like the Culber arc and honestly, was one of my favorite things about this episode. I'm glad they aren't taking the easy road with him and Stamets. It was a good episode because there was payoff instead of building up to something. Not a lot, but enough to satisfy me. And the stories were pretty tight with little filler.Still not liking Ash on the whole, and his hair has GOT to go.

I think Peck is doing a really good Spock - he doesn't look as good as Quinto looks (Quinto has the angular thing happening), but the voice is pretty god-damned good. I'll take that over looks because I'm feeling more of a connection between Peck and Nimoy. Quinto was good too, but I prefer baby-face Peck.

And one question - didn't they decide not to use the Spore Drive because it was harming the network? I'm assuming that the harm was only from spore-Culber and they think they have that resolved, but is it that easy, really? How do they know they won't accidentally fuck things up again? Stamets was awfully quick to strap in and ask where to.

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I think its what you suspect - they think its not a problem now, but they're wrong. I thought it was already pretty clear Tilly's spore friend would be coming back so that could be the impetus for it.

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1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

I think Peck is doing a really good Spock - he doesn't look as good as Quinto looks (Quinto has the angular thing happening), but the voice is pretty god-damned good. I'll take that over looks because I'm feeling more of a connection between Peck and Nimoy. Quinto was good too, but I prefer baby-face Peck.

I like that his voice sounds a lot like the actor who plays Sarek. Makes it more believable they are related.

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

And one question - didn't they decide not to use the Spore Drive because it was harming the network? I'm assuming that the harm was only from spore-Culber and they think they have that resolved, but is it that easy, really? How do they know they won't accidentally fuck things up again? Stamets was awfully quick to strap in and ask where to.

I had the same thought. I don't recall what the final decision was on using the drive, but I guess Pike thought the matter urgent enough to use it.

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Yeah, I know there's an unresolved Mae plot-hook out there, but I was expecting it to be something along the lines of 

 

Pike: This mission is urgent, Like really really urgent. Stamets, strap in.

Stamets: But sir ...

Pike: I know, but I'm super serious.

Stamets: The danger ...

Pike: I'm giving you a direct order

Stamets: ok

(bad things happen in the spore network, Mae gets pissed and bitches to her bestie)

..................................................

Stamets had zero hesitation and it wasn't like they had a major emergency - just a run of the mill emergency. It bothered me a lot.

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1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

Stamets had zero hesitation and it wasn't like they had a major emergency - just a run of the mill emergency. It bothered me a lot.

Yeah, as an ardent defender of the show I think this one was just a miss on their part. It needed at least a couple of lines like you said

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1 hour ago, karaddin said:

Yeah, as an ardent defender of the show I think this one was just a miss on their part. It needed at least a couple of lines like you said

I thought it turned out to be Culber? Mae shouted at everyone cos she thought it was Discovery but then Culber was ‘following’ them in the network or something. Although either way, if a bunch of mycelial life forms were killed, somebody should be feeling bad. And that doesn’t seem to be why Culber’s mad (maybe it should be).

If the Red Angel turns out to have put this all in a new timeline, I’d really rather they just came out and say it. This was the whole principle of the JJverse: “Things don’t look the same but don’t worry, it’s a new timeline” ... as opposed to what Discovery would be doing, pissing fans off for two seasons before pulling the same trick.

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Yeah, it was Culber, but we're thinking it's irresponsible of them to think they won't accidentally fuck it up again seeing as how they didn't realize it the first time.

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On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 3:48 AM, DaveSumm said:

I thought it turned out to be Culber? Mae shouted at everyone cos she thought it was Discovery but then Culber was ‘following’ them in the network or something. Although either way, if a bunch of mycelial life forms were killed, somebody should be feeling bad. And that doesn’t seem to be why Culber’s mad (maybe it should be).

If the Red Angel turns out to have put this all in a new timeline, I’d really rather they just came out and say it. This was the whole principle of the JJverse: “Things don’t look the same but don’t worry, it’s a new timeline” ... as opposed to what Discovery would be doing, pissing fans off for two seasons before pulling the same trick.

I'm going to be upset if this turns out to be a third timeline and if I'm going to have to wonder what timeline it is in when I the Picard show.

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4 hours ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

I'm going to be upset if this turns out to be a third timeline and if I'm going to have to wonder what timeline it is in when I the Picard show.

Urgh, if they tie it in to Discovery regardless of which timeline it’s in ... then, is TNG in the same one? Which means, DS9 and Trials and Tribbleations is too ... and that breaks my brain. :(

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Star Trek is confusing because it has both parallel universes/alternate timelines, but it also has the ability to change the timeline you are currently in, so the timeline itself can shift in one universe (Yesterday's Enterprise).

The presumption now I think is that the Red Angel has changed the Prime Timeline, if only slightly, so that Burnham survived instead of being killed by the Vulcan forest monster. If Burnham had died in such a way in the original timeline, it explains why Spock never mentioned her (something obscure that happened 20+ years earlier simply wouldn't come up). I'd have to double-check, but I believe that without Burnham's interference the war with the Klingons may not have happened and Discovery may have been destroyed several times over, explaining why the spore drive is not a thing in later shows either.

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Star Trek is confusing because it has both parallel universes/alternate timelines, but it also has the ability to change the timeline you are currently in, so the timeline itself can shift in one universe (Yesterday's Enterprise).

Interestingly in the case of Yesterday’s Enterprise, the current universe we know and love collapsed and was replaced by the new one, up until they fixed it and it reappeared. By those rules, that means the JJverse collapsed the Prime universe. I’m not exactly sure which one came first, JJ split (Kirk’s birth) or proposed DIS split (Burnham saved). Is Spock a similar age in both? Be pretty bizarre if the JJ verse existed for a few months and then the Red Angel dislodged it again to this Discovery timeline. 

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

The presumption now I think is that the Red Angel has changed the Prime Timeline, if only slightly, so that Burnham survived instead of being killed by the Vulcan forest monster. If Burnham had died in such a way in the original timeline, it explains why Spock never mentioned her (something obscure that happened 20+ years earlier simply wouldn't come up). I'd have to double-check, but I believe that without Burnham's interference the war with the Klingons may not have happened and Discovery may have been destroyed several times over, explaining why the spore drive is not a thing in later shows either.

Yea the pilot drove home this idea that Burnham was responsible. Although I recall talk at the time that the Klingon War was alluded to previously in Star Trek, I think Picard mentioned it once? Or he said first contact ‘went very badly’ or something.

Anyway ... I’m personally hoping the Picard series is just a straight up TNG sequel, no awkward tie in attempts.

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46 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Interestingly in the case of Yesterday’s Enterprise, the current universe we know and love collapsed and was replaced by the new one, up until they fixed it and it reappeared. By those rules, that means the JJverse collapsed the Prime universe. I’m not exactly sure which one came first, JJ split (Kirk’s birth) or proposed DIS split (Burnham saved). Is Spock a similar age in both? Be pretty bizarre if the JJ verse existed for a few months and then the Red Angel dislodged it again to this Discovery timeline. 

It's been confirmed that the JJverse is a separate timeline/universe (like the Mirror Universe) altogether. The Prime Universe still exists (and ostensibly is the universe that all the TV shows take place in).

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Okay, this episode just annoyed me.

Spoiler

They did too little with Airiam in the prior two seasons for this to really leave a mark, and then... why didn't they just get a lock on her once she was ejected and transport her onto the ship with a security team ready to lock her down until they could figure out how to break Control's grasp on her?

Also, having a Control overseeing the operations of a nefarious black-ops organization ... sound familiar!

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1 minute ago, Ran said:

Okay, this episode just annoyed me.

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They did too little with Airiam in the prior two seasons for this to really leave a mark, and then... why didn't they just get a lock on her once she was ejected and transport her onto the ship with a security team ready to lock her down until they could figure out how to break Control's grasp on her?

Also, having a Control overseeing the operations of a nefarious black-ops organization ... sound familiar!

I agree. There was a lot of beauty in this episode, but also dumb stuff.

Spoiler

I fear the show may have created a precedent here. Put a secondary character up front, give them a background, and then kill them off. I hope this doesn't happen. Airiam deserved more than just this one episode. We only just find out that she's basically a cyborg.

Also, I couldn't quite remember how Airiam got infected. I thought the probe that attacked Pike and Tyler did it, but if that's the case, how is a probe modified in the future connected to the AI running things in Section 31?

I wonder if Section 31 will be forced into obscurity due to the monumental mess they're responsible for, thus more aligning it to how it's perceived in the other Trek series.

And they should have beamed them back right away, not just after she was ejected. There was no talk of the station putting shields up to prevent it. I hated how the security chief got ignored while she was dying, appeared to be dying, and then there she is, to save the day. Cliche writing.

On the positive side, I now like Spock. We don't need another iteration of Spock who serves the same role as we've seen in other Treks (JJ verse included). I like seeing him in a different element, and the actor is doing a good job.

 

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