Will Jon be Dany's heir

[Lady Winter Rose]

I'm in team Jon's a Targaryen and his parents are not wed or their marriage isn't recognized. do you think Jon be Dany's heir when she founds about Lyanna & Rhaegar

[Mon ami]

28 minutes ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I'm in team Jon's a Targaryen and his parents are not wed or their marriage isn't recognized. do you think Jon be Dany's heir when she founds about Lyanna & Rhaegar

No.  Daenerys will outlive Jon.  Jon will die from the stab wounds.  

[Megorova]

Jon is slightly older than Dany, and he is a man, so he will be fighting in battles, constantly endangering his life, and thus he is a bad choice to be a heir. Because the purpose of having an heir, is for him/her to outlive his/her predecessor, and it's questionable, whether Jon will outlive Dany. He's on a battlefield, she's in a castle, which one of them has higher chances to outlive the other one, is obvious.

[Euron III Greyjoy]

Its difficult to say what Daenerys' opinion on Jon will be, that is if she ever even finds out. 

• On one hand, as far as Daenerys is concerned she is barren. If she plans on having the Targaryen legacy carry on after her, then she would need Jon to marry and have a child. 
• On the other hand, if Jon's parentage got made public then the Lords of the Realm would probably much prefer Jon as ruler then her. He was born in Westeros, grew up with a Lords education, is a competent fighter, is Rhaegar's child where Daenerys is the Mad King's child, and most importantly he's a man. 

Oh and lets be real here, will she even believe Jon is a Targaryen? I'm presuming she's going to run into Aegon first, and if she doesn't believe him to be Rhaegar's son, then what chance does Jon have. 

[Darth Sidious]

Dany can have a child with whomever she chooses and that precious baby will be known as a Targaryen.  The physical appearance of the child will be crucial though.  She will be sure to pick someone who will sire a silver-blonde baby because that is the Targaryen heritage.  A dark-haired baby simply will not do.  That is not what people expect.  So pretty much Aegon will be the best candidate.  In truth, Aegon and Jon will more than likely die before she even sets foot on Westeros.  I don't think we will know how a new dynasty will be built.  The story will simply not cover that far ahead in time.  Nor is it necessary.  George Martin will end the story with a lot of ambiguity and mystery.  The story may end with Dany wondering if she's pregnant.  Furthermore, the question of who the baby's daddy is will be left hanging.  

[Jaak]

Dany thinks she cannot bear a live child. If she does, though... Hizdahr´s child would have dragon blood from her anyway.

 

Jon has the advantage of being a bastard. If Aegon is legitimate then he should sit the Iron Throne, not his aunt. Daenerys´ best chance to claim Iron Throne is deny Aegon is her nephew at all, but then he is not her heir either.

[Sydney Mae]

6 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I'm in team Jon's a Targaryen and his parents are not wed or their marriage isn't recognized. do you think Jon be Dany's heir when she founds about Lyanna & Rhaegar

There are a lot of problems with this.  First, the elephant in the room.  Jon is dead.  Then there is the question of proof.  Dragon riding is not proof.  Ben Plumm is not in the line of succession even though he has a drop of dragon blood.  The best Jon can say is he has a drop of dragon blood.  The chance of Jon being legitimate is very low.  Rhaegar was thinking passion not succession when he slept with Lyanna.  Jon is also not a good choice for the job.  He can't manage the wall.  The last thing you want is to give him the kingdom.  

51 minutes ago, Jaak said:

Dany thinks she cannot bear a live child. If she does, though... Hizdahr´s child would have dragon blood from her anyway.

 

Jon has the advantage of being a bastard. If Aegon is legitimate then he should sit the Iron Throne, not his aunt. Daenerys´ best chance to claim Iron Throne is deny Aegon is her nephew at all, but then he is not her heir either.

Daenerys is not going to claim the throne through some legal technicality.  This is not going to be decided in a modern court of law.  It will be decided on the battlefield.  Why should she step aside for her nephew just because he has a cock?  Aerys cast aside Rhaegar's line and gave the throne to Viserys.  She is the heir and it will be Aegon who will have to prove his identity.  

[Starkz]

4 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

There are a lot of problems with this.  First, the elephant in the room.  Jon is dead.  Then there is the question of proof.  Dragon riding is not proof.  Ben Plumm is not in the line of succession even though he has a drop of dragon blood.  The best Jon can say is he has a drop of dragon blood.  The chance of Jon being legitimate is very low.  Rhaegar was thinking passion not succession when he slept with Lyanna.  Jon is also not a good choice for the job.  He can't manage the wall.  The last thing you want is to give him the kingdom.  

Daenerys is not going to claim the throne through some legal technicality.  This is not going to be decided in a modern court of law.  It will be decided on the battlefield.  Why should she step aside for her nephew just because he has a cock?  Aerys cast aside Rhaegar's line and gave the throne to Viserys.  She is the heir and it will be Aegon who will have to prove his identity.  

I never understand the “Jon can’t manage the Wall” is Dany managing Meereen any better? Are people not trying to assassinate  her? Do the majority of the Mereeense people like her? Are they not at war? In comparison Jon is running the Wall flawlessly to what’s going on in Dany’s ruled Meereen.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

12 hours ago, Silver Bullet 1985 said:

  A dark-haired baby simply will not do.  That is not what people expect. 

I doubt very much Dany cares about what "people" would expect or want of her. Had Rhaego lived he'd be her heir even if he looked exactly like Drogo. If she births Daario's child and the babe has dark hair she'd name that child her heir as well. If she decides to marry for politics in Westeros as she did in Meereen I doubt hair color will come into the equation as much as other things, such as food and and how strong and noble her husband and consort's family name is. Meaning she'd marry a dark haired Willas Tyrell over a silver haired Aurane Waters. If all she wants in a husband is purple eyes and silver hair she'd have her pick of men living within the Black Walls of Volantis, but most of those men are likely slavers, so I doubt she'd want to marry one of them.

[Jaak]

9 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

Daenerys is not going to claim the throne through some legal technicality.  This is not going to be decided in a modern court of law.  It will be decided on the battlefield. 

No, it´s decided by negotiations with potential supporters of both sides.

9 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

Why should she step aside for her nephew just because he has a cock? 

No, because Rhaegaer was the elder brother. Rhaenys, had it been her who survived, would also have been ahead of Daenerys.

9 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

Aerys cast aside Rhaegar's line and gave the throne to Viserys.  She is the heir and it will be Aegon who will have to prove his identity.  

Mad King disinheriting Rhaegaer´s line in his final days? But few Targaryen loyalists will take that particularly seriously.

The better claim of Daenerys would be to deny Aegon´s identity altogether. But then the Pisswater Prince is not heir either.

Quote

I doubt very much Dany cares about what "people" would expect or want of her. Had Rhaego lived he'd be her heir even if he looked exactly like Drogo. If she births Daario's child and the babe has dark hair she'd name that child her heir as well.

True.

We hear what ser Criston said, though.

At the same breath he said that Rhaenyra´s sons were bastards and could not be allowed to inherit, and that boys would not be safe under them because of what their "father" was.

If Daenerys bears a healthy baby who bonds with a dragon at a young age and starts to ride soon... would people still pick on her heir/ess as a "Naharis bastard", like they did with "Strongs"? Which people would be the ones doing so?

If Westerosi have a pick between Daenerys´ bastard, raised as heir and dragonrider from birth, and Rhaegaer´s bastard, not so raised, who´d they prefer?

[The Sleeper]

Assuming he is legitimate, he would be ahead of Daenerys in the Targaryen line of succession. Being a bastard he is nobody's heir, not by birth anyway. 

I don't think Dany was called the last dragon without a reason. My bet is she will be the last Targaryen. 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

18 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I'm in team Jon's a Targaryen and his parents are not wed or their marriage isn't recognized. do you think Jon be Dany's heir when she founds about Lyanna & Rhaegar

Daenerys can name anybody as her heir , but will the people of Westeros and those of Meereen accept it . But Jon is going to die.

[Jaak]

20 minutes ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

Daenerys can name anybody as her heir , but will the people of Westeros and those of Meereen accept it .

The question is what their alternatives are.

Is her heir a dragonrider?

[SirArthur]

50 minutes ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

Daenerys can name anybody as her heir 

That is the big price question of the entire series. Can a ruler do it or not ? 

Viserys certainly got named over Aegon, so it would make sense from her "claim" perspective. But with the council of 101 her claim is also very dodgy, although Robert I thought she had a claim. 

So in the end Daenerys entire existence requires her to follow an absolutistique approach to uphold her claim.  So yes, it would make sense for her to do it. In a more law oriented world, she certainly would have more problems to even become Queen. 

 

[Jaak]

2 hours ago, SirArthur said:

So in the end Daenerys entire existence requires her to follow an absolutistique approach to uphold her claim.  So yes, it would make sense for her to do it. In a more law oriented world, she certainly would have more problems to even become Queen.

She has the same claim to rule Westeros as Aegon I did. Dragons.

Which also is the same claim that Hugh had.

Is anyone in position to contest her claim, or her heir, with another dragon?

[Only 89 selfies today]

22 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I'm in team Jon's a Targaryen and his parents are not wed or their marriage isn't recognized. do you think Jon be Dany's heir when she founds about Lyanna & Rhaegar

That dingdong is dead from Bowen's knife.  He is not going to be the heir to anything.  And your question is based on a very wild assumption that Snowflake is the son of Rhaegar when there is very little to support that theory.  So if we agree to put that major technicality aside, and also the technicality that Jon is dead, there is still very little reason to believe that Daenerys will die before he does. 

For the sake of wildass hypothetics and pure entertainment, let's assume Daenerys is about to proclaim her heir and dingdong is still alive.  Jon is not the person she would put on the list.  He's a troublesome guy.  Jon made a big mess at the wall.  So bad is his mess that even honorable men like Bowen Marsh had to step in and end his leadership.  Jon's rule was so bad that even his sworn brothers wanted him out.  Never in its ten thousand year history has an army at the wall ever attacked the people of the south.  That's the worst than anything the NK ever did.  Jon was just about to do that when he was stopped by his own men.  Jon is not the guy you want to inherit.

[SirArthur]

52 minutes ago, Jaak said:

She has the same claim to rule Westeros as Aegon I did. Dragons.

Which also is the same claim that Hugh had.

Is anyone in position to contest her claim, or her heir, with another dragon?

The details are completely lost on you. Her claims to the Iron throne (which I am talking about, your are talking about "the power of dragons, REEEEEEEEEEEE" )was never about dragons. You can see that in the first book when Robert I wanted to kill her, even without dragons. 

So can she inherit whatever she wants to whomever she wants ? Sure, as long as there are no other rules. And the Iron Throne has rules. That is the general problem in these discussions. Are we talking about a legal claim to the Iron Throne or the power of bashing in the heads of her enemies ? 

And she certainly can use "the power of dragons, REEEEEEEEE", but that would most likely end her dynasty, as Aegon has a far superior claim.

[Jaak]

5 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

The details are completely lost on you. Her claims to the Iron throne (which I am talking about, your are talking about "the power of dragons, REEEEEEEEEEEE" )was never about dragons. You can see that in the first book when Robert I wanted to kill her, even without dragons. 

So can she inherit whatever she wants to whomever she wants ? Sure, as long as there are no other rules. Ans the Iron Throne has rules. That is the general problem in these discussions. Are we talking about a legal claim to the Iron Throne or the power of bashing in the heads of her enemies ? 

And she certainly can use "the power of dragons, REEEEEEEEE", but that would most likely end her dynasty, as Aegon has a far superior claim.

Dragon does not give Daenerys the power to appoint heir in the sense that the moment her heir is to inherit, she is by definition dead and her dragon riderless. What "appointing" an heir does is help coordinate her supporters and rally them behind one claim.

Daenerys does not have a close natural heir for now. Who are likely candidates?

Aegon - she can recognize him, or dismiss because 1) not real or, 2) disinherited by Aerys

Jon - can be ignored as unknown, or if heard of, dismissed as a bastard

House Baratheon as descendants of Rhaelle - Daenerys can dismiss these as disinherited for Robert´s treason, and not even Robert´s offspring, or choose to pardon them and refuse to credit the incest accusations

then we are at Rhae and Daella. What became of their children?

[norwaywolf123]

There are probably many highborn in Westeros with a drop of Targaryen blood that could be Daenerys heir. Depending on Daenerys relationship to them and their families may decide who she will support as her heir. Daenerys is not dependent on Jon to have an heir.

 

If Daenerys ever gets a child i think she would prefer to let this child inherit.

[Darth Sidious]

37 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

There are probably many highborn in Westeros with a drop of Targaryen blood that could be Daenerys heir. Depending on Daenerys relationship to them and their families may decide who she will support as her heir. Daenerys is not dependent on Jon to have an heir.

 

If Daenerys ever gets a child i think she would prefer to let this child inherit.

With her power of necromancy, the child may not be born the traditional way.  She could resurrect Rhaego, for instance.  Burn Jon as the sacrificial offering to bring back Prince Rhaego.