Jump to content

Will Jon be Dany's heir


Lady Winter Rose

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

I get it people saying Jon is ahead of her in the line of succession if R+L is confirmed but surely Daenerys would potentially sit the throne because of right of conquest. 

Nobody cares about the line of succession or any of that crap - or rather: they only would if Jon Snow was acknowledged and confirmed and accepted as Prince X Targaryen long before Daenerys even came to Westeros. Then he could have a sufficiently strong power base to try to challenge her. Like Aegon might be doing considering he arrived first and might be able to rally most/all Targaryen loyalists in Westeros to his banner rather than Dany's.

But considering that his origin story would be pretty much unbelievable and that he has pretty much no chance to rally Targaryen loyalists to his side - the very way he looks would make that pretty impossible - chances are about zero that he can put forth a rival claim against Daenerys. And she will either already sit the Iron Throne when they first meet, or she will already have decided that she wanted the throne. And if she opposes Aegon in the matter then she can just as well oppose Jon Snow, never mind who they are or claim to be.

Not to mention that she is the Mother of Dragons. Even if Aegon or Jon were to claim a dragon of their own - she is the one who brought the dragons back. She is a completely different league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Nobody cares about the line of succession or any of that crap - or rather: they only would if Jon Snow was acknowledged and confirmed and accepted as Prince X Targaryen long before Daenerys even came to Westeros. Then he could have a sufficiently strong power base to try to challenge her. Like Aegon might be doing considering he arrived first and might be able to rally most/all Targaryen loyalists in Westeros to his banner rather than Dany's.

But considering that his origin story would be pretty much unbelievable and that he has pretty much no chance to rally Targaryen loyalists to his side - the very way he looks would make that pretty impossible - chances are about zero that he can put forth a rival claim against Daenerys. And she will either already sit the Iron Throne when they first meet, or she will already have decided that she wanted the throne. And if she opposes Aegon in the matter then she can just as well oppose Jon Snow, never mind who they are or claim to be.

Not to mention that she is the Mother of Dragons. Even if Aegon or Jon were to claim a dragon of their own - she is the one who brought the dragons back. She is a completely different league.

Jon wanting or challenging Dany or anyone for a Throne is unbelievable imo and not the type of person Jon is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

I don't know about that.  He would want the throne so he can get even with the families who opposed the Starks.

That’s not really plausible and I’m not sure how you deduced that. The Bolton’s are the main ones left that are responsible for the fall of the Starks and Jon will soon deal with them. The only person I’ve read that has a desire to take the Throne and punish other families is Daenerys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Starkz said:

That’s not really plausible and I’m not sure how you deduced that. The Bolton’s are the main ones left that are responsible for the fall of the Starks and Jon will soon deal with them. The only person I’ve read that has a desire to take the Throne and punish other families is Daenerys.

Jon has already done it to Slynt.  I can see him trying to take the throne to punish the Lannisters and the Freys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jon cannot really push a Targaryen claim with his Stark bastard origin story. The Northmen might want him as a Stark and support him as such, but not as a Targaryen. And as Rhaegar's son he cannot really lay claim to Winterfell and the North, especially not against Eddard Stark's children.

In that sense, it might actually be that Jon's Targaryen ancestry is only revealed after he meets Dany - if Robb's last will becomes relevant and he was actually legitimized therein as Jon Stark, Eddard Stark's son and Robb Stark's brother. Things would just get awfully confused if the truth came out when Jon had just found and finally accepted a Stark identity.

But overall, Jon is likely only going to become Dany's consort, not a king in his own right. He may succeed her as her heir if they have no children. If they had children Jon would likely not presume to come before them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/10/2018 at 9:44 AM, Lady Winter Rose said:

I'm in team Jon's a Targaryen and his parents are not wed or their marriage isn't recognized. do you think Jon be Dany's heir when she founds about Lyanna & Rhaegar

Heir to what?  The Baratheons have taken Westeros.  If we are to talk succession then the so called Baratheons, Myrcella and Tommen are the line of succession.  Stannis failed to convince so he too lost his right.  Either the people didn't believe him or they don't care enough to lose their lives to support his claim.  Wars can be won away from the battlefield and that is what the Lannisters did.  The Targaryens and the Baratheons have no existing lines of succession because they lost the kingdom.  Worse, the kingdom no longer exists.  The wildlings have broken the kingdom.  The ironborn are trying to gain independence.  

Dany's empire is in Essos.  Jon has absolutely zero rights to inherit what she built.  So what if Dany somehow managed to add Westeros to her empire.  That means she took it by conquest.  So the old line of succession will no longer apply because she put the land back together.  It means she built a new realm.   She can pick Missandei to inherit if she wanted to.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon has already done it to Slynt.  I can see him trying to take the throne to punish the Lannisters and the Freys.

The Freys will be dealt with by LSH and Jon didn’t execute Slynt because of any Stark related things. As I’ve already said that sounds a lot more like what Daenerys will do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Starkz said:

The Freys will be dealt with by LSH and Jon didn’t execute Slynt because of any Stark related things. As I’ve already said that sounds a lot more like what Daenerys will do.

Aegon will deal with the Targaryen enemies. Dany will likely find more potential allies among Aegon's enemies than among the people who are likely to declare for House Targaryen (i.e. Aegon). Now, they can certainly switch sides to her, but she may actually end in a position where she has more in common with, say, Cersei than the natural Targaryen loyalists in the Crownlands, Dorne, the Reach, or even the Riverlands.

Wars can make strange bedfellows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Aegon will deal with the Targaryen enemies. Dany will likely find more potential allies among Aegon's enemies than among the people who are likely to declare for House Targaryen (i.e. Aegon). Now, they can certainly switch sides to her, but she may actually end in a position where she has more in common with, say, Cersei than the natural Targaryen loyalists in the Crownlands, Dorne, the Reach, or even the Riverlands.

Wars can make strange bedfellows.

Daenerys spiel about Usurper dogs and other Houses that didn’t support the Targaryens doesn’t seem like she’s going to be looking to make allies when she arrives in Westeros. Furthermore Aegon and Dany are on the same team and the last Targaryens they’ll be working together. Aegons enemies are Dany’s enemies and vice versa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Starkz said:

Daenerys spiel about Usurper dogs and other Houses that didn’t support the Targaryens doesn’t seem like she’s going to be looking to make allies when she arrives in Westeros. Furthermore Aegon and Dany are on the same team and the last Targaryens they’ll be working together. Aegons enemies are Dany’s enemies and vice versa.

Not if Dany and Aegon become enemies, fighting for the same throne. Jaime may be long dead when she arrives - and even if not chances are not so bad that the last Usurper's Dog ends up joining Aegon - and then that's going to help fuel the resentment between Dany and Aegon.

Dany's ramblings about the Rebellion in distant exile are meaningless. She will have to make decisions when she is in Westeros, she doesn't make them now. It is like saying the fact that Robb and Joff never lived each other at Winterfell is going to mean they will face each other personally in battle.

Or that Doran and Oberyn Martell hating Tywin Lannister means they'll get around to kill the old man.

Dany won't punish people she doesn't even know for things their fathers may have done. She may insist on the punishment of Jaime, but he is a political non-entity now. A Kingsguard knight who can be killed rather easily without actually causing a huge chunk of Westeros to rise in rebellion. And there is no other Usurper's Dog left.

And of course she is going to try to make allies. She may also come with a large armada and army, but it is insane not to make allies in a land you try to conquer - or in her case: to play the 'I'm your rightful queen, do me homage' card before resorting to the 'If you don't submit, I'll kill you all' card.

If she can work with some Meereenese, she can also work with some Westerosi. Whether many will declare for her is another matter. But it may be that she is approached by people to whom she wouldn't look as potential allies right now. Cersei was just a stand-in for 'the West' above. If Aegon rises to power over the dead bodies of Tommen and Myrcella and Aegon and Dany are going to fight each other, then the Lannisters/Westermen might be among Dany's potential allies - more than the Dornishmen, Stormlanders, Reach, Riverlanders, etc., assuming they stick to Aegon.

The enemies of your enemies can be your friends. They don't have to be, but they can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

I don't know about that.  He would want the throne so he can get even with the families who opposed the Starks.

Which he can ask from Daenerys as his reward for riding a dragon in her service. Even as Rhaegaer´s son, he can accept subordination to her as a bastard.

Daenerys still rides the biggest dragon, Drogon. What will be her rewards for the riders of her other two, assuming they get the dragons with her approval and in her service? Besides, well, entertaining them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Aegon will deal with the Targaryen enemies. Dany will likely find more potential allies among Aegon's enemies than among the people who are likely to declare for House Targaryen (i.e. Aegon). Now, they can certainly switch sides to her, but she may actually end in a position where she has more in common with, say, Cersei than the natural Targaryen loyalists in the Crownlands, Dorne, the Reach, or even the Riverlands.

Wars can make strange bedfellows.

Depending on how fAegon handles Cersei and the Lannisters called Baratheon(House Baratheon of Kings' Landing) aswell as the Westerlands may push the Westerlands into supporting Daenerys. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon has already done it to Slynt. 

Jon didn't execute Slynt for what he had done to Jon's family... he specifically thinks about punishing Slynt for those things, but then ignores those thoughts and gives Slynt several chances to serve the Watch. It's Slynt's refusal to obey orders, thus jeopardising the Watch, that leads Jon to execute him. Similarly, Jon doesn't punish Thorne when he becomes LC, he instead offers him a chance to work under him, which he accepts, albeit grudgingly. Jon is concerned with the safety of the North and the 7 Kingdoms in general, and not with revenge for past deeds, when all is told. 

Also, Jon doesn't want to go after Roose Bolton for betraying Robb, but he does want to save Arya from Ramsey. 

If his resurrection changes him, then maybe he'll be focused on vengeance in the future books. But he hasn't acted on those desires, yet, aside from giving Stannis advice. Though I can see him making a claim, not to punish those who wronged his family, but to take charge of the 7 Kingdoms to direct their attention North. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Slaver's Dread said:

Why do people bring up Jon in regards to succession? Regardless of his parentage Jon gave up all rights to lands and titles the moment he took his Night's Watch vows. 

Eventually he’ll leave the NW and those vows behind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Starkz said:

Eventually he’ll leave the NW and those vows behind.

Jon is an oathbreaker.  Nobody can deny that.  Slaver's Dread is still correct though.  Jon gave up all rights when he took those vows and there are many who will not let him off the hook.  This is assuming Jon even comes back at all.  I am on the camp that believe he should stay dead.  But if he does, it should be in the form of a wight.  I suppose if the land falls to the white walkers they would prop up one of their own.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...