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Will Jon be Dany's heir


Lady Winter Rose

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14 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Not if Dany and Aegon become enemies, fighting for the same throne. Jaime may be long dead when she arrives - and even if not chances are not so bad that the last Usurper's Dog ends up joining Aegon - and then that's going to help fuel the resentment between Dany and Aegon.

Dany's ramblings about the Rebellion in distant exile are meaningless. She will have to make decisions when she is in Westeros, she doesn't make them now. It is like saying the fact that Robb and Joff never lived each other at Winterfell is going to mean they will face each other personally in battle.

Or that Doran and Oberyn Martell hating Tywin Lannister means they'll get around to kill the old man.

Dany won't punish people she doesn't even know for things their fathers may have done. She may insist on the punishment of Jaime, but he is a political non-entity now. A Kingsguard knight who can be killed rather easily without actually causing a huge chunk of Westeros to rise in rebellion. And there is no other Usurper's Dog left.

And of course she is going to try to make allies. She may also come with a large armada and army, but it is insane not to make allies in a land you try to conquer - or in her case: to play the 'I'm your rightful queen, do me homage' card before resorting to the 'If you don't submit, I'll kill you all' card.

If she can work with some Meereenese, she can also work with some Westerosi. Whether many will declare for her is another matter. But it may be that she is approached by people to whom she wouldn't look as potential allies right now. Cersei was just a stand-in for 'the West' above. If Aegon rises to power over the dead bodies of Tommen and Myrcella and Aegon and Dany are going to fight each other, then the Lannisters/Westermen might be among Dany's potential allies - more than the Dornishmen, Stormlanders, Reach, Riverlanders, etc., assuming they stick to Aegon.

The enemies of your enemies can be your friends. They don't have to be, but they can.

The Baratheons, Starks and Lannisters are all still around whom she considers Usurper dogs. You can have no idea what Dany will do to the Houses that opposed her and what has been hinted at in her chapters is her aiming to eliminate them all and now with her beginning to fully embrace the “fire and blood” it seems likely that she’ll be out for blood when she arrives in Westeros. If Dany kills Jamie no one is going to accept that. It will definitely create waves amongst the Houses he’s not someone that can “be easily killed”. Dany is going to come to Westeros and cause a lot of death and destruction. Many people aren’t going to like her saying bow down or die. She’s a foreigner to the people of Westeros with a foreign army which is exactly why she’ll team up with Aegon to help with this them being enemies makes no sense. Aegon and Dany are fighting for the same Throne for the same House. Them being enemies doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen and wouldn’t make much sense. Aegon will be Dany’s closest ally. With her not being able to have children Aegon will have to continue the Targaryen line and his children will be the heir to the Throne.

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7 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Jon is an oathbreaker.  Nobody can deny that.  Slaver's Dread is still correct though.  Jon gave up all rights when he took those vows and there are many who will not let him off the hook.  This is assuming Jon even comes back at all.  I am on the camp that believe he should stay dead.  But if he does, it should be in the form of a wight.  I suppose if the land falls to the white walkers they would prop up one of their own.  

Jon staying dead or dying makes no sense in the story. Jon was betrayed by the NW and he’ll use that amongst other things to leave the NW. Jon has a higher calling than just the NW and every reader should be able to notice that. I doubt many are going to care that he’s left the NW after he saves the North from the Bolton’s and then the Realm from the AoTD, furthermore Robb’s will is out there somewhere. Jon staying dead or turning into a wight is fan-fiction from Jon haters.

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3 hours ago, Starkz said:

Jon staying dead or dying makes no sense in the story. Jon was betrayed by the NW and he’ll use that amongst other things to leave the NW. Jon has a higher calling than just the NW and every reader should be able to notice that. I doubt many are going to care that he’s left the NW after he saves the North from the Bolton’s and then the Realm from the AoTD, furthermore Robb’s will is out there somewhere. Jon staying dead or turning into a wight is fan-fiction from Jon haters.

Jon wasn't betrayed by the Night's Watch, he betrayed the Night's Watch. You're looking at it through the perspective of the reader and not as members of the NW. Jon just led an entire army of wildlings, your sworn enemies for thousands of years, people you've been fighting and has killed your friends, through the Wall, leaving you severely outnumbered. Was this the smart thing to do? From a readers perspective yes, but as a member of the NW it seems like a very dangerous thing to do. But even that is forgivable, what is not forgivable is Jon getting involved in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms. Are the Boltons "bad" people, well ya kind of, but that is not the NW problem. Let's say the pink letter really come's from the Bolton's, like Jon thinks,  it explicitly states that he will not harm the NW if Jon stops harboring the enemies of the crown. It doesn't matter if you think Stannis is more just than Bolton, it's the fact that Jon is choosing a side, and forcing the NW to get involved in the war. All the members of the NW risk being attacked, with no defense to the south. Imagine if Stannis loses this war, the consequences the NW would face. Jon is gambling with the lives of all his men, and that is why he deserved to die, and that's coming from someone who kinda likes Jon.

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56 minutes ago, kleevedge said:

Jon wasn't betrayed by the Night's Watch, he betrayed the Night's Watch. You're looking at it through the perspective of the reader and not as members of the NW. Jon just led an entire army of wildlings, your sworn enemies for thousands of years, people you've been fighting and has killed your friends, through the Wall, leaving you severely outnumbered. Was this the smart thing to do? From a readers perspective yes, but as a member of the NW it seems like a very dangerous thing to do. But even that is forgivable, what is not forgivable is Jon getting involved in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms. Are the Boltons "bad" people, well ya kind of, but that is not the NW problem. Let's say the pink letter really come's from the Bolton's, like Jon thinks,  it explicitly states that he will not harm the NW if Jon stops harboring the enemies of the crown. It doesn't matter if you think Stannis is more just than Bolton, it's the fact that Jon is choosing a side, and forcing the NW to get involved in the war. All the members of the NW risk being attacked, with no defense to the south. Imagine if Stannis loses this war, the consequences the NW would face. Jon is gambling with the lives of all his men, and that is why he deserved to die, and that's coming from someone who kinda likes Jon.

The NW members tried to assainate Jon, that is a betrayal. Jon explicitly states he doesn’t expect the NW to get involved when he says he’s going South to fight the Bolton’s after they threaten the NW. There is no law that says the NW can’t give sanctuary to people and the Pink Letter asks for things Jon either doesn’t have or can’t do. The NW is a failing institution and has been for quite sometime. I highly doubt the Bolton’s would wipe out the NW or attack them. If Stannis loses that in no way would effect the NW besides the fact that they have his wife and daughter which are worthless with Stannis dead and no supporters. I don’t believe the Pink Letter came from the Bolton’s for this very reason. Asking for Stannis wife and daughter have no meaning besides, sadistically wanting them I suppose, if Stannis is truly dead. The Northerns won’t like the Bolton’s attacking the NW or taking a wife and child and the Bolton’s are already on thin ice Roose isn’t that dumb.

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4 hours ago, Starkz said:

The Baratheons, Starks and Lannisters are all still around whom she considers Usurper dogs. You can have no idea what Dany will do to the Houses that opposed her and what has been hinted at in her chapters is her aiming to eliminate them all and now with her beginning to fully embrace the “fire and blood” it seems likely that she’ll be out for blood when she arrives in Westeros.

Dany doesn't hate houses as such, she hates the people she calls the Usurper's Dogs. She won't kill just some stand-ins if she cannot find them. Not even a comic book villain would do that.

4 hours ago, Starkz said:

If Dany kills Jamie no one is going to accept that.

Pretty much everyone will accept that.

4 hours ago, Starkz said:

It will definitely create waves amongst the Houses he’s not someone that can “be easily killed”. Dany is going to come to Westeros and cause a lot of death and destruction. Many people aren’t going to like her saying bow down or die.

Like any person who is not a moron she would try to find allies in Westeros. She is not going to be a mindless terminator-like monster.

4 hours ago, Starkz said:

She’s a foreigner to the people of Westeros with a foreign army which is exactly why she’ll team up with Aegon to help with this them being enemies makes no sense. Aegon and Dany are fighting for the same Throne for the same House. Them being enemies doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen and wouldn’t make much sense. Aegon will be Dany’s closest ally. With her not being able to have children Aegon will have to continue the Targaryen line and his children will be the heir to the Throne.

Dany can marry anyone she wants to, she doesn't need Aegon. And if he doesn't need her there won't be an alliance. And him going to Westeros without her is a very strong sign he doesn't feel he'll truly need her. Not now, and definitely not when he sits the throne.

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4 minutes ago, Starkz said:

Jon explicitly states he doesn’t expect the NW to get involved when he says he’s going South to fight the Bolton’s after they threaten the NW.

The NW is getting involved whether they go to battle or not. Jon also saying, as lord commander of the NW, that he is going to be taking part in the battle, reflects on the NW, and he is abandoning his post and his duties.

 

7 minutes ago, Starkz said:

There is no law that says the NW can’t give sanctuary to people and the Pink Letter asks for things Jon either doesn’t have or can’t do.

There is laws on harboring fugitives, and the NW is not exempt

7 minutes ago, Starkz said:

I highly doubt the Bolton’s would wipe out the NW or attack them.

They directly said they would do this, if Jon doesn't cooperate with the crown.

 

13 minutes ago, Starkz said:

If Stannis loses that in no way would effect the NW besides the fact that they have his wife and daughter which are worthless with Stannis dead and no supporters

It definitely would effect the NW, Jon sided with Stannis and attempted to attack the Bolton's, if he wasn't killed he would have. Killing him prevented this and "saved" the NW if the Bolton's were to prevail.

 

15 minutes ago, Starkz said:

I don’t believe the Pink Letter came from the Bolton’s for this very reason. Asking for Stannis wife and daughter have no meaning besides, sadistically wanting them I suppose, if Stannis is truly dead.

This has nothing to do with what we were talking about, once again you are viewing it from the perspective of the reader, rather than immersing yourself as the characters.

16 minutes ago, Starkz said:

The Northerns won’t like the Bolton’s attacking the NW or taking a wife and child and the Bolton’s are already on thin ice Roose isn’t that dumb.

You mean the same northerners Jon was about to attack? I think they would have been pretty upset that the NW attacked them, since some of those northerners are on Bolton's side, or from the perspective of the NW, seemingly sided with the Bolton's.

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25 minutes ago, kleevedge said:

The NW is getting involved whether they go to battle or not. Jon also saying, as lord commander of the NW, that he is going to be taking part in the battle, reflects on the NW, and he is abandoning his post and his duties.

 

There is laws on harboring fugitives, and the NW is not exempt

They directly said they would do this, if Jon doesn't cooperate with the crown.

 

It definitely would effect the NW, Jon sided with Stannis and attempted to attack the Bolton's, if he wasn't killed he would have. Killing him prevented this and "saved" the NW if the Bolton's were to prevail.

 

This has nothing to do with what we were talking about, once again you are viewing it from the perspective of the reader, rather than immersing yourself as the characters.

You mean the same northerners Jon was about to attack? I think they would have been pretty upset that the NW attacked them, since some of those northerners are on Bolton's side, or from the perspective of the NW, seemingly sided with the Bolton's.

Jon going to fight the Bolton’s is not the same thing as the NW going to fight the Bolton’s. How would the NW be affected if Stannis and Jon lost?  The Bolton’s don’t care about the NW and there isn’t enough men their to challenge their rule. Jon leaving would be the best thing for the Watch, not dying. With Jon leaving you’d assume the Queens men and the Queen would also go with Jon so the Bolton’s wouldn’t assume that Arya or anyone else was at Castle Black. Killing Jon is the worst thing someone with the mindset of preserving the Watch could do. There are thousands of Wildlings and Queens men who support Jon who will retaliate. The best coarse of action would be to let Jon fight the Bolton’s and hope that he wins but most of these characters at the Wall aren’t very smart.

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1 minute ago, Starkz said:

Jon going to fight the Bolton’s is not the same thing as the NW going to fight the Bolton’s. How would the NW be affected if Stannis and Jon lost?  The Bolton’s don’t care about the NW and there isn’t enough men their to challenge their rule. Jon leaving would be the best thing for the Watch, not dying. With Jon leaving you’d assume the Queens men and the Queen would also go with Jon so the Bolton’s wouldn’t assume that Arya or anyone else was at Castle Black. Killing Jon is the worst thing someone with the mindset of preserving the Watch could do. There are thousands of Wildlings and Queens men who support Jon who will retaliate. The best coarse of action would be to let Jon fight the Bolton’s and hope that he wins but most of these characters at the Wall aren’t very smart. 

Jon is active Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, leading an army of wildlings and working with the Stannis men to attack the Boltons, all of them coming from the Wall...

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55 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Dany doesn't hate houses as such, she hates the people she calls the Usurper's Dogs. She won't kill just some stand-ins if she cannot find them. Not even a comic book villain would do that.

Pretty much everyone will accept that.

Like any person who is not a moron she would try to find allies in Westeros. She is not going to be a mindless terminator-like monster.

Dany can marry anyone she wants to, she doesn't need Aegon. And if he doesn't need her there won't be an alliance. And him going to Westeros without her is a very strong sign he doesn't feel he'll truly need her. Not now, and definitely not when he sits the throne.

So you imagine Dany is just going to accept the Houses that stood against the Targaryens and instated the Baratheons? That seems like something her character would do when she crucifies and burns people? Killing Jamie just goes to further the point that she is the Mad Kings daughter. Dany marrying Aegon makes the most sense out of everyone and people will expect her to as per the history of House Targaryen. Dany has three dragons and is his Aunt whom also desires the Throne so they’ll have to work together. Aegon will soon learn he needs more men and support and Dany will provide that for him. Dany will also need support in Westeros and Aegon will provide that. Dany cant have children and Aegon being the last fertile Targaryen she’ll need him to continue the line. Furthermore for succession reasons Dany will need Aegon to provide an heir for House Targaryen. There are multiple reasons of why they both need each other saying they don’t is blasphemy.

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1 minute ago, kleevedge said:

Jon is active Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, leading an army of wildlings and working with the Stannis men to attack the Boltons, all of them coming from the Wall...

And if he lost and died what would be the reasoning for the Bolton’s wasting time and resources to attack a failing institution that doesn’t oppose them and isn’t a risk to their rule? 

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1 hour ago, Starkz said:

So you imagine Dany is just going to accept the Houses that stood against the Targaryens and instated the Baratheons? That seems like something her character would do when she crucifies and burns people?

She kills people she thinks are responsible for atrocities committed in war, atrocities involving people she wanted to protect who are brutally killed just to send her a message.

The Starks, Arryns, Lannisters, Baratheons, and Tullys never did anything of that sort.

1 hour ago, Starkz said:

Killing Jamie just goes to further the point that she is the Mad Kings daughter.

Jaime deserves to die for a number of reasons. Very few people in the series would have issues if anyone would actually put the Kingslayer down. He killed his king as a Kingsguard, he committed incest and adultery with his married sister, he cuckolded the king, he tried to murder a young boy, etc.

Jaime doesn't have some kind of fan club in Westeros. He has to watch his back constantly because pretty much nobody likes him and only fear keeps the dogs in line.

1 hour ago, Starkz said:

Dany marrying Aegon makes the most sense out of everyone and people will expect her to as per the history of House Targaryen. Dany has three dragons and is his Aunt whom also desires the Throne so they’ll have to work together. Aegon will soon learn he needs more men and support and Dany will provide that for him. Dany will also need support in Westeros and Aegon will provide that. Dany cant have children and Aegon being the last fertile Targaryen she’ll need him to continue the line. Furthermore for succession reasons Dany will need Aegon to provide an heir for House Targaryen. There are multiple reasons of why they both need each other saying they don’t is blasphemy.

They could work together - but the way things were set up makes it very likely they won't.

If Aegon wins the throne before Dany even arrives, he will simply not need her. And if he is married by then - perhaps to a pregnant Arianne - he will also have no reason to marry her for dynastic reasons. Vice versa, Dany might not buy he is who he claims he is, etc.

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1 hour ago, Starkz said:

So you imagine Dany is just going to accept the Houses that stood against the Targaryens and instated the Baratheons?

I mean there’s little evidence she’s interested in punishing children for the crimes of their relatives if not needed or unwilling to forgive enemies if they switch to her side; for example she was totally willing to pardon Barristan(a man who did in fact abandon her and Viserys to serve the man that stole their throne in her eyes), , and even Jorah(before he showed once again how much a scumbag he really is again) because of their shows of really wanting to serve, has hired on the second sons even though before then they pledged themselves to fight against her , expressed how she wished she could just pay Joffery to give up the throne rather than fight and destroy him, and was very reluctant to actually kill the hostages she took(something she would totally be in her rights and doing and not be seen as in the wrong in by her countrymen), in response to blantant rebellion by the nobility of Meereen.

1 hour ago, Starkz said:

So you imagine Dany is just going to accept the Houses that stood against the Targaryens and instated the Baratheons? That seems like something her character would do when she crucifies and burns people? Killing Jamie just goes to further the point that she is the Mad Kings daughter. 

She’s crucified slavers who were literally guilty of crucifying hundreds of children,  burned slavers in response to their rebellion(not monstrous in this world, hell Eddard Stark was pressumblaly willing to take young Theon’s head given he took the boy to ward at Winterfel). Her actions are not really extreme if one actually includes the situations she’s doing them in. Hell might as well say Ned Stark beheaded a man who appeared mentally ill and just leave it at never, elaborating on the fact, that the man is guilty of desertion and thus needs to die. Or say Ned Stark held a young boy captive for the majority of the boy’s life and was willing to kill the boy, should the boy’s father acts badly-without talking of how he’s doing this to try to make sure Balon doesn’t start another rebellion to which would cost far more lives. Context matters.   Killing Jaimie, should not be seen as remotely controversial given he is an oath-breaker. A blantantly unrepentant one at that. Daenerys killing him is what any good Targaryen, Hell anyone interested in doing the honorable thing would do given the nature of Jaimie’s crime and how he acted in the aftermath of it-even Ned Stark thought it was wrong for him to have been virtually excused for murdering the man he swore to protect. Seriously who exactly do you see being outraged at Daenerys for executing the man who stabbed the monarch he swore to protect and if need be die for in the back at the cusp of the war being over like a coward? Please, tell me who you’re  shedding  tears for the kingslayer getting justice?   I imagine Daenerys, will welcome all the houses that wish submit to her, and aid in her retaking her kingdom and devastate the houses that continuously defy her, until they submit or die. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

She kills people she thinks are responsible for atrocities committed in war, atrocities involving people she wanted to protect who are brutally killed just to send her a message.

The Starks, Arryns, Lannisters, Baratheons, and Tullys never did anything of that sort.

Jaime deserves to die for a number of reasons. Very few people in the series would have issues if anyone would actually put the Kingslayer down. He killed his king as a Kingsguard, he committed incest and adultery with his married sister, he cuckolded the king, he tried to murder a young boy, etc.

Jaime doesn't have some kind of fan club in Westeros. He has to watch his back constantly because pretty much nobody likes him and only fear keeps the dogs in line.

They could work together - but the way things were set up makes it very likely they won't.

If Aegon wins the throne before Dany even arrives, he will simply not need her. And if he is married by then - perhaps to a pregnant Arianne - he will also have no reason to marry her for dynastic reasons. Vice versa, Dany might not buy he is who he claims he is, etc.

I can’t imagine a scenario where every slaver who was punished was involved in the crucified slaves, especially since they were the ones who got to select who was punished which wasn’t a very smart decision by Dany but regardless she’s shown that she is a ruthless person and she’s bringing that with her to Westeros. Jamie isn’t a perfect person but wanting to kill him immediately puts her at odds with the Lannisters and their supporters so it will cause problems if she’s aiming at making peace with these Houses. It’s unlikely Aegon will be able to win the Throne alone but even if he does the rest of the 7K won’t automatically declare him King and some will likely oppose him. Furthermore the 7K isn’t very united at this point. I suppose if Aegon does control the Throne with Arianne he won’t have any need for Dany so perhaps she’d go back to Essos but that doesn’t seem likely. Even if Aegon doesn’t need her she wants the Throne and with three dragons Dany can cause a lot of death and destruction so he’ll have to compromise in someway unless she leaves Westeros.

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1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I mean there’s little evidence she’s interested in punishing children for the crimes of their relatives if not needed or unwilling to forgive enemies if they switch to her side; for example she was totally willing to pardon Barristan(a man who did in fact abandon her and Viserys to serve the man that stole their throne in her eyes), , and even Jorah(before he showed once again how much a scumbag he really is again) because of their shows of really wanting to serve, has hired on the second sons even though before then they pledged themselves to fight against her , expressed how she wished she could just pay Joffery to give up the throne rather than fight and destroy him, and was very reluctant to actually kill the hostages she took(something she would totally be in her rights and doing and not be seen as in the wrong in by her countrymen), in response to blantant rebellion by the nobility of Meereen.

She’s crucified slavers who were literally guilty of crucifying hundreds of children,  burned slavers in response to their rebellion(not monstrous in this world, hell Eddard Stark was pressumblaly willing to take young Theon’s head given he took the boy to ward at Winterfel). Her actions are not really extreme if one actually includes the situations she’s doing them in. Hell might as well say Ned Stark beheaded a man who appeared mentally ill and just leave it at never, elaborating on the fact, that the man is guilty of desertion and thus needs to die. Or say Ned Stark held a young boy captive for the majority of the boy’s life and was willing to kill the boy, should the boy’s father acts badly-without talking of how he’s doing this to try to make sure Balon doesn’t start another rebellion to which would cost far more lives. Context matters.   Killing Jaimie, should not be seen as remotely controversial given he is an oath-breaker. A blantantly unrepentant one at that. Daenerys killing him is what any good Targaryen, Hell anyone interested in doing the honorable thing would do given the nature of Jaimie’s crime and how he acted in the aftermath of it-even Ned Stark thought it was wrong for him to have been virtually excused for murdering the man he swore to protect. Seriously who exactly do you see being outraged at Daenerys for executing the man who stabbed the monarch he swore to protect and if need be die for in the back at the cusp of the war being over like a coward? Please, tell me who you’re  shedding  tears for the kingslayer getting justice?   I imagine Daenerys, will welcome all the houses that wish submit to her, and aid in her retaking her kingdom and devastate the houses that continuously defy her, until they submit or die. 

 

 

None of those people you listed are compareable to Houses that fought against the Targaryens and overthrew them. Barristan also fought for the Targaryen and saved her. Jorah had been with her for quite some time and the Seconds Sons hadn’t yet done anything to her. Two wrongs dont make a right either. Crucifying people because they crucified people doesn’t make you any better than they’re. There are numerous ways Dany could have handled that situation and she choose the most inhuman way. It is extreme regardless of how you look at the situation. Any Lannister or Lannister ally will oppose Dany executing Jamie and Jamie was pardoned by Robert. The fact that Dany would avenge the Mad King isn’t a very good showing. Dany has said already that the Usurper dogs aka the Houses that supported the Baratheons she would eliminate so I don’t really see her accepting every House. Dany is going to bring a lot of death and destruction to Westeros as she does to every place and many Houses aren’t going to like that or support her.

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5 hours ago, Starkz said:

None of those people you listed are compareable to Houses that fought against the Targaryens and overthrew them. 

I literally listed Joffery, who Daenerys would rather pay to go away than actually fight and see dead.

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys II

"Carrying them off where? What good are slaves once you've killed the slavers? Valyria is no more, Qarth lies beyond the red waste, and the Nine Free Cities are thousands of leagues to the west. And you may be sure the sons of the harpy give lavishly to every passing khal, just as the magisters do in Pentos and Norvos and Myr. They know that if they feast the horselords and give them gifts, they will soon ride on. It's cheaper than fighting, and a deal more certain."
Cheaper than fighting, Dany thought. Yes, it might be. If only it could be that easy for her. How pleasant it would be to sail to King's Landing with her dragons, and pay the boy Joffrey a chest of gold to make him go away.

Clearly she’s not inclined to unilaterally slaughtering all members  of the houses that fought against House Targyen for giggles. 

5 hours ago, Starkz said:

Barristan also fought for the Targaryen and saved her. Jorah had been with her for quite some time and the Seconds Sons hadn’t yet done anything to her. Two wrongs dont make a right either. Crucifying people because they crucified people doesn’t make you any better than they’re. There are numerous ways Dany could have handled that situation and she choose the most inhuman way. It is extreme regardless of how you look at the situation 

Yes, Barristan and Jorah showed they genuinely wanted to serve her-which is my point, she’s clearly willing to pardon those who have wronged her and her family if they do show remorse and repent for their actions. Barristan abandoned her and Viserys to service the man who murdered her brother. She would be well within her rights to have him executed for just that-instead she showed mercy to the man in recognition for the good things he’s done for her in his efforts to redeem himself  and in response to him admitting he made a mistake. The second sons pledged themselves to enemies and were prepared to fight her; if any house decides to defect from the side that’s pro-Baratheon  to Daenerys when she arrives I see no reason she would treat them worse than the mercenary company. 

One would find a court in America sentencing a person to be mutilated  for stealing a loaf of bread pretty extreme and an in humane-but we see it done in Westeros.  We see lots of things that we would label as inhumane being seen as perfectly legal, and  morally acceptable(for example.murdering a child in response to his or her kin’s crimes) , by those in power(hell even Stannis has his own torturers, and who get enough work to satisfy their sadism), what Daenerys actually did in regards to the slavers is not really extreme. Given the context the world she’s working in and what is deemed acceptable. I mean seriously, we tend to think it wrong to murder children for the crimes of their fathers, or the mentally ill-Ned Stark was willing to do the former, he as far he could tell did the latter, but far be it for me to hold this man to modern standards and cluck my tongue on how wrong he is on this.

5 hours ago, Starkz said:

Any Lannister or Lannister ally will oppose Dany executing Jamie and Jamie was pardoned by Robert. The fact that Dany would avenge the Mad King isn’t a verygood showing.Dany has said already that the Usurper dogs aka the Houses that supported the Baratheons she would eliminate so I don’t really see her accepting every House. Dany is going to bring a lot of death and destruction to Westeros as she does to every place and many Houses aren’t going to like that or support her.

Yeah no. Tyrion, and Cersi would applaud Daenerys roasting the man alive given they hate the guy, Lancel would likely be saddened but given Jaimie did break his oaths to the gods to serve Aerys, I see him accepting it. Any other Lannister around after Daenerys assumes power, would probably be quiet, if not renounce the guy to distance themselves from him. The Lannister’s allies are unlikely to show uproar at the Kingslayer being executed for murdering his king-they’d too be preoccupied in not doing anything that would worsen their position to put their necks out for the guy who is universally recognized for being a scumbag, who should/would have died for his crime if not for his Father. Again even Ned was it rated that Jaimie got off scot free for his crime-and this is the man that Aerys planned to kill and whose father and brother he did in fact give slow and humiliating  deaths to. His pardon did no suddenly make him less guilty in the eyes of the public nor would it even likely be seen as a legitimate reason for why Daenerys is in the wrong to execute the man; her whole reason for being there is because she does not she the Baratheons to have ever been entitled to her Family’s throne while she and her brother were alive. It makes no sense for her to respect every legal action propagated by someone she’s denouncing as a usurper.   No one is going to be throwing a fit  that Jaimie actually faces Justice for what he did. He has not amassed the love or even just a sense of loyalty from his house or any house pledged to House Lannister to which would warrant that reaction.  His death means nothing in comparison to their houses’ wellfare. Daenerys executing the man for his crime would likely be seen as justice in general given and the right way to handle the scumbag that is Jaimie Lannister for what he did. 

Usurpher dogs as in the actual individuals who she sees as the worst lackeys of Robert Baratheon; , Eddatd Stark, Tywin Lannister. She has never expressed wanting to eliminate all the houses that supported Robert Baratheon taking her family’s throne. 

Daenerys I Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories. The midnight flight to Dragonstone, moonlight shimmering on the ship's black sails. Her brother Rhaegar battling the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident and dying for the woman he loved. The sack of King's Landing by the ones Viserys called the Usurper's dogs, the lords Lannister and Stark. Princess Elia of Dorne pleading for mercy as Rhaegar's heir was ripped from her breast and murdered before her eyes. The polished skulls of the last dragons staring down sightlessly from the walls of the throne room while the Kingslayer opened Father's throat with a golden sword.

 

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys II

But before she could do that she must conquer.
The Usurper will kill you, sure as sunrise, Mormont had said. Robert had slain her gallant brother Rhaegar, and one of his creatures had crossed the Dothraki sea to poison her and her unborn son. They said Robert Baratheon was strong as a bull and fearless in battle, a man who loved nothing better than war. And with him stood the great lords her brother had named the Usurper's dogs, cold-eyed Eddard Stark with his frozen heart, and the golden Lannisters, father and son, so rich, so powerful, so treacherous.

She wants the actual perpetrators heads, not their family's.

Again she hasn’t shown much liking to murder children for the sins of their houses. Hence her not ordering the deaths of her hostages(something that is totally acceptable in the seven kingdoms). Some houses may refuse to submit even when it’s pretty clear they would be annilated, after attempts have been made to get them to surrender-most I wager would not however.  there any player in the game of thrones who don’t bring a lot of death of destruction persuing their agenda lol? A lot of people died for Robb’s seccession movement and his prime motivation was simply revenge for his father. A lot of people starved to death from Renly trying to skip the line of succession and become king. Houses won’t not support or oppose her over some idea of saving lives-the ones who oppose her will be doing it because they feel doing so would maintain their power or increase it. The Tyrells did not give their backing to Renly for any humanitarian reason or because they thought he would be a better king than Joffery. They did so to increase their station in Westeros and  because he promised rewards to those who followed him.  There will be many who would allighn with Daenerys  for that, because plenty still do see the Targyens as the rightful rulers,  and because House Baratheon and House Lannister have done a terrible job of managing the country since the Targyen’s have been out of power; the country is bankrupt, a massive civil war happened, the current Queen regent was paraded naked through the city and the Lannisters are seen as guilty as having orschestrated the red wedding . It should not be hard for Daenerys to find people willing to join her once she docks in Westeros. 

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18 hours ago, Starkz said:

I can’t imagine a scenario where every slaver who was punished was involved in the crucified slaves, especially since they were the ones who got to select who was punished which wasn’t a very smart decision by Dany but regardless she’s shown that she is a ruthless person and she’s bringing that with her to Westeros.

We don't know the details of Dany's reasoning there, but considering this is not some modern day peaceful society, but a war zone Dany could be of the view that the slavers not preventing the crucifixion of the children are nearly as guilty as those who commanded it.

18 hours ago, Starkz said:

Jamie isn’t a perfect person but wanting to kill him immediately puts her at odds with the Lannisters and their supporters so it will cause problems if she’s aiming at making peace with these Houses.

You cannot connect Jaime and 'the Lannisters' at this point considering you don't even know if Jaime is still with House Lannister when Dany finally arrives - or if House Lannister is still an important player at that point. Right now Jaime is the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard of a doomed boy king.

18 hours ago, Starkz said:

It’s unlikely Aegon will be able to win the Throne alone but even if he does the rest of the 7K won’t automatically declare him King and some will likely oppose him.

Sure, and if Dany opposes him, too, those people can be her allies - rather than those Targaryen loyalists who support Aegon.

18 hours ago, Starkz said:

Furthermore the 7K isn’t very united at this point. I suppose if Aegon does control the Throne with Arianne he won’t have any need for Dany so perhaps she’d go back to Essos but that doesn’t seem likely. Even if Aegon doesn’t need her she wants the Throne and with three dragons Dany can cause a lot of death and destruction so he’ll have to compromise in someway unless she leaves Westeros.

Or he will oppose her.

Man, I see you believe/hope/think Dany and Aegon will work together - and they might. But with that whole Second Dance of the Dragons thing that's just not very likely.

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18 hours ago, Starkz said:

I can’t imagine a scenario where every slaver who was punished was involved in the crucified slaves, especially since they were the ones who got to select who was punished which wasn’t a very smart decision by Dany but regardless she’s shown that she is a ruthless person and she’s bringing that with her to Westeros. Jamie isn’t a perfect person but wanting to kill him immediately puts her at odds with the Lannisters and their supporters so it will cause problems if she’s aiming at making peace with these Houses. It’s unlikely Aegon will be able to win the Throne alone but even if he does the rest of the 7K won’t automatically declare him King and some will likely oppose him. Furthermore the 7K isn’t very united at this point. I suppose if Aegon does control the Throne with Arianne he won’t have any need for Dany so perhaps she’d go back to Essos but that doesn’t seem likely. Even if Aegon doesn’t need her she wants the Throne and with three dragons Dany can cause a lot of death and destruction so he’ll have to compromise in someway unless she leaves Westeros. 

Just want to underscore the bolded. The precedent for leaving the KG was set up with Barristan being dismissed for no longer being up to par. Jaime’s burning Cersei’s letter was more or less Jaime’s resignation letter though I’m not sure he realizes it quite yet. Jaime not in the KG automatically makes him Lord of Casterly Rock whether he likes it or not. There’s no one else and it was understood by all that Tywin still thought Jaime his heir despite questions as to how that could come about. A lot of high born are drafted into their positions. Jaime gets it too, especially as there’s no one else set up to take over.

The KG cloaks are very often described as snow as seen in the examples below. A longer but still an incomplete list can be found in this post. Jaime even connects it to Jon Snow once. See the snow melting and being burned with Cersei’s summons? Symbolic burning of his KG cloak.

ACOK Catelyn VII

"No, that wasn't it." Jaime Lannister upended the flagon. A trickle ran down onto his face, bright as blood. "Snow, that was the one. Such a white name . . . like the pretty cloaks they give us in the Kingsguard when we swear our pretty oaths."

AFFC Cersei VIII

Under the Great Sept's lofty dome of glass and gold and crystal, Lord Tywin Lannister's body rested upon a stepped marble bier. At its head Jaime stood at vigil, his one good hand curled about the hilt of a tall golden greatsword whose point rested on the floor. The hooded cloak he wore was as white as freshly fallen snow, and the scales of his long hauberk were mother-of-pearl chased with gold. Lord Tywin would have wanted him in Lannister gold and crimson, she thought. It always angered him to see Jaime all in white. Her brother was growing his beard again as well. The stubble covered his jaw and cheeks, and gave his face a rough, uncouth look. He might at least have waited till Father's bones were interred beneath the Rock.

AFFC Jaime VII

A snowflake landed on the letter. As it melted, the ink began to blur. Jaime rolled the parchment up again, as tight as one hand would allow, and handed it to Peck. "No," he said. "Put this in the fire."

One thing I’m really looking forward to is Dany and Jaime. Jaime’s right hand killed Aerys, and Jaime in turn lost his right hand. On the face of it, it’s not equal. But Aerys was off the rails, and Jaime lost his identity with his hand. I think whether Dany calls it even or not will say a lot about her. If thy hand offends thee...

 

 

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Jaime has a lot to answer for.  In my opinion, the Starks will get to him first and kill him for turning Bran into a cripple.  The Starks are much more likely to kill Jaime than Daenerys.  Daenerys is playing on a larger stage than any of the main characters and executing Jaime is not going to be high on her list of To Do.  Daenerys also has shown a remarkable capacity to forgive.  Bran and the Starks, on the other hand, are not going to forgive Jaime for what he did.  The Starks are not a forgiving people.  The "north remembers" is not a propaganda for peace and forgiveness.  It's a call for cold-blooded revenge.  Let's look and see which family is in revenge mode.  Yes, the Starks.  Second daughter, Momma Stoneheart,  and the illegitimate son of the house have all done their bit to take revenge on their enemies.  Arya is killing people, guilty or innocent doesn't matter.  She's willing to make them pay the price to get revenge on the people that hurt her pack.  Jon let his feelings for the Starks sway his judgment and it led to the questionable execution of a sworn brother.  Stoneheart started by killing the innocent Jinglebell Freys and moved on to those who had very little role in the wedding.  

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1 hour ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Jaime has a lot to answer for.  In my opinion, the Starks will get to him first and kill him for turning Bran into a cripple.  The Starks are much more likely to kill Jaime than Daenerys.  Daenerys is playing on a larger stage than any of the main characters and executing Jaime is not going to be high on her list of To Do.  Daenerys also has shown a remarkable capacity to forgive.  Bran and the Starks, on the other hand, are not going to forgive Jaime for what he did.  The Starks are not a forgiving people.  The "north remembers" is not a propaganda for peace and forgiveness.  It's a call for cold-blooded revenge.  Let's look and see which family is in revenge mode.  Yes, the Starks.  Second daughter, Momma Stoneheart,  and the illegitimate son of the house have all done their bit to take revenge on their enemies.  Arya is killing people, guilty or innocent doesn't matter.  She's willing to make them pay the price to get revenge on the people that hurt her pack.  Jon let his feelings for the Starks sway his judgment and it led to the questionable execution of a sworn brother.  Stoneheart started by killing the innocent Jinglebell Freys and moved on to those who had very little role in the wedding.  

The only Stark that has Jamie in their crosshairs is Cat, and she’s not really a Stark.. or much of a human being anymore. How is Daenerys playing on any larger stage than any other main character? She’s doing nothing extraordinary different than other characters.  Dany hasn’t shown a remarkable capacity to forgive either. She brutally punishes those that oppose her. Catelyn is barely the person she was before and Arya is a lost desperate child. Jon didn’t kill Slynt for any Stark related reasons either.

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On 11/13/2018 at 1:17 AM, Jaak said:

That´s not "public acceptance". Kevan privately believes it to be true and publicly upholds King Tommen.

I meant as in people in private believe it. They don't say so publicly out of the obvious fear of getting punished. 

On 11/13/2018 at 1:17 AM, Jaak said:

The fact that Kingsguard died at Tower of Joy has been known for fifteen year. It has had some public explanation.

The KG are required to guard the king, and their vows would have required them to go to Dragonstone to protect the royal family if Jon was a bastard. They didn't need to be there as Dayne's family could have looked after Lyanna without the Kingsguard. Why didn't they have Dayne's family look after her so they could go to Dragonstone? No public explanation has been offered so far. 

On 11/13/2018 at 1:17 AM, Jaak said:

Were Maegor´s marriages clearly recognized afterwards?

And Rhaegaer was not head of his house. He did not have permission from Aerys.

Who will be calling Great Council? Who are likely to accept a majority decision against them?

His marriages weren't dissolved or declared illegitimate, meaning they were recognized. 

It seems you missed what I pointed out up thread: his grandfather Jaehaerys II and Shaera married without their father Aegon IV's permission, and Rhaenyra and Daemon married without her father, Viserys I's permission either. Rhaegar has precedent for eloping with Lyanna without royal permission. 

As to who would call it, I don't know, but I don't think Catelyn's suggestion in ACoK is just a one off. The Great Council is an assembly of all the lords, all those who command the military power of Westeros. The winning candidate has the majority of the lords on his side. A decision by the Great Council has never been overturned. Cersei wouldn't accept the result if she lost, but the power balance would be against her. 

On 11/13/2018 at 1:17 AM, Jaak said:

If Daenerys accepts evidence that Jon is Rhaegaer´s son but ignores or rejects any evidence that he´s legitimate then she can legitimize him. Indeed, secret royal heritage as a bastard would be significant.

It matters hugely.

Drogon has no idea of law of succession. Unsullied, Dothraki, freedmen and shavepates may understand, but would they care? If Dany wants to fight for her Iron Throne and a safe land for them, are they going to defect to Aegon who does not know them just because Aegon is "right" in Westerosi law? Likely quite some lords in Westeros will be looking for excuses why Aegon does not really come before Daenerys. And maesters in Dany´s service will be helpfully supplying them (Aegon not real... disinherited by Aerys...).

Why would Daenerys ignore or reject evidence that Jon is legitimate so that she can legitimize him? That makes no sense. 

Daenerys's views don't change millennia of laws, precedent and tradition. Legitimacy matters in this political environment. A dragon alone isn't enough to give one legitimacy as Hugh the Hammer and Maegor demonstrated. Drogon doesn't understand secession, but the realm does. Daenerys would put out the claim that Aegon is fake when she lands, or why else would she fight against her supposed late brother's son, whose murder she regarded as a great crime? 

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