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What if?: Political Marriages if there was no Ribert’s Rebellion?


DaviesCherrygrove

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My sincere apologies if I am breaking any policies. I check out your forums often but have never posted before. 

I’m sitting here (at 3am) wondering what the marriages of the great houses would look like had the Rebellion never happened. 

 

I think you’d get the same answers whether Aerys or Rhaegar were king

if Raegar and Elia stay together we have four available Targaryens...in order of succession; Aegon (not Jon), Rhaenys, Viserys, Daenerys (weird to see Daenerys is a low level royal family member)

IMO progressive-Rhaegar wouldn’t marry his children to each other - not sure about V and D but though lower level Targaryens theyd be useful for political marriages 

Aegon - Margaery Tyrell,  daughter of Brendan and Catelyn (comparably Sansa), daughter of Robert and Lyanna

Rhaenys - Joffery (Lannister) - child of Cersei and Jamie regardless of who they’re married to so basically still Joffery 

Viserys - Arianne Martell - inevitably becoming her Prince Philip in Dorne

Daenrys - Benjen Stark - Benjen moves to KIngs Landing and eventually becomes leader of the Kings Guard...I like the idea of her ending up with a dark haired Stark 

Any more obscure characters I’m not thinking of?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Progressive-Rhaegar? What exactly in his actions is progressive? 

And why would Aerys, who thought Targaryens were above Westerosi houses and wanted Rhaegar to marry someone form Essos of Valyrian blood, since he didn't have any daughters to marry him to at that time, and only matched him with Elia because a suitable bride wasn't found elsewhere, suddenly approve of these matches?  

Aegon x Rhaenys & Viserys x Daenerys would be the obvious matches. 

And what in the books suggests that Benjen wanted to be a Kingsguard? And why is Kingsguard suddenly allowed to marry?

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What did Rhaegar do that was progressive? To me he just seems like a normal Prince who just happens to be a bit kinder then others. Then there is the fact that he "kidnapped" a woman to complete a prophecy. . . . 

Why marry Daenerys to Benjen instead of Robb? I presume you meant Benjen becomes the leader of the city watch, since the Kingsguard cannot marry. Why marry a Princess to the leader of the city watch instead of the heir to Winterfell? 

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11 hours ago, DaviesCherrygrove said:

My sincere apologies if I am breaking any policies. I check out your forums often but have never posted before. 

I’m sitting here (at 3am) wondering what the marriages of the great houses would look like had the Rebellion never happened. 

 

I think you’d get the same answers whether Aerys or Rhaegar were king

if Raegar and Elia stay together we have four available Targaryens...in order of succession; Aegon (not Jon), Rhaenys, Viserys, Daenerys (weird to see Daenerys is a low level royal family member)

IMO progressive-Rhaegar wouldn’t marry his children to each other - not sure about V and D but though lower level Targaryens theyd be useful for political marriages 

Aegon - Margaery Tyrell,  daughter of Brendan and Catelyn (comparably Sansa), daughter of Robert and Lyanna

Rhaenys - Joffery (Lannister) - child of Cersei and Jamie regardless of who they’re married to so basically still Joffery 

Viserys - Arianne Martell - inevitably becoming her Prince Philip in Dorne

Daenrys - Benjen Stark - Benjen moves to KIngs Landing and eventually becomes leader of the Kings Guard...I like the idea of her ending up with a dark haired Stark 

Any more obscure characters I’m not thinking of?

 

 

 

 

 

 

We would have a King Viserys III ruling Westeros.  He was favored by his father over his older brother.  

Not much would change for Rhaegar and Elia.  They were already married and had children.  Rhaegar would be just as happy playing his harp and writing music.  Elia would raise her children in Dorne at the water gardens.  

Viserys would no doubt marry for political reasons.  His children will be his heirs.  Arrianne is of the right age.  Viserys + Arrianne = the heirs to the throne.

Daenerys would marry the son of a high lord.  Willas Tyrell and Robb Stark would be good matches.  It will be whoever Viserys chooses.  

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6 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

We would have a King Viserys III ruling Westeros.  He was favored by his father over his older brother.  

Not much would change for Rhaegar and Elia.  They were already married and had children.  Rhaegar would be just as happy playing his harp and writing music.  Elia would raise her children in Dorne at the water gardens.  

Viserys would no doubt marry for political reasons.  His children will be his heirs.  Arrianne is of the right age.  Viserys + Arrianne = the heirs to the throne.

Daenerys would marry the son of a high lord.  Willas Tyrell and Robb Stark would be good matches.  It will be whoever Viserys chooses.  

Aerys only named Viserys the heir after Rhaegar fell at the Trident. Had the Targaryen dynasty survived, the legitimacy of that action would have certainly been questioned given Rhaegar's children should be the legal heirs.

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7 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

We would have a King Viserys III ruling Westeros.  He was favored by his father over his older brother.  

Not much would change for Rhaegar and Elia.  They were already married and had children.  Rhaegar would be just as happy playing his harp and writing music.  Elia would raise her children in Dorne at the water gardens.  

Viserys would no doubt marry for political reasons.  His children will be his heirs.  Arrianne is of the right age.  Viserys + Arrianne = the heirs to the throne.

Daenerys would marry the son of a high lord.  Willas Tyrell and Robb Stark would be good matches.  It will be whoever Viserys chooses.  

Or Viserys would want to keep Daenerys for himself. Remember the stunt he tried in Pentos the night she married Drogo?

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7 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

We would have a King Viserys III ruling Westeros.  He was favored by his father over his older brother.  

Not much would change for Rhaegar and Elia.  They were already married and had children.  Rhaegar would be just as happy playing his harp and writing music.  Elia would raise her children in Dorne at the water gardens.  

Viserys would no doubt marry for political reasons.  His children will be his heirs.  Arrianne is of the right age.  Viserys + Arrianne = the heirs to the throne.

Daenerys would marry the son of a high lord.  Willas Tyrell and Robb Stark would be good matches.  It will be whoever Viserys chooses.  

 

48 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Or Viserys would want to keep Daenerys for himself. Remember the stunt he tried in Pentos the night she married Drogo?

She was destined to hatch the dragon eggs.  Dany will jump ahead of her brothers because it's her destiny.  She will hatch the remaining dragon eggs and those two boys will bend their knees.  One of the boys will do something damaging to the family and Dany will have no choice but to offer them up to the fire.  

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Aerys only named Viserys the heir after Rhaegar fell at the Trident. Had the Targaryen dynasty survived, the legitimacy of that action would have certainly been questioned given Rhaegar's children should be the legal heirs.

I think Aerys always favored Viserys.  The action would be legit because Aerys commanded it.  Until Dany hatches the family's stash of dragon eggs and then her brothers would bend their knees to the dragon queen.  She who has dragons will always call the shots.

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22 hours ago, DaviesCherrygrove said:

Benjen moves to KIngs Landing and eventually becomes leader of the Kings Guard...I like the idea of her ending up with a dark haired Stark 

If Kingsguard can marry then Barristan can finally put his heart on the line and propose to Ashara Dayne so she can refuse him in favor of being Brandon Stark's paramour. Then that poor old bold fool can stop pretending he ever had a chance with the great beauty of Dorne while bad boy Brandon is still breathing. 

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Everything depends on how Aerys's reign ends. If his reign continues peacefully, probably Viserys becomes the new heir and marries Daenerys. I wouldn't be surprised if Rhaegar has an accident or is poisoned by Aerys. Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon are held captive. When they grow up, I expect Aegon to marry Arianne and Rhaenys to marry a Baratheon (Renly probably). Aerys continues to sexually abuse Rhaella so maybe we have some more Targaryen offspring.

If Rhaegar manages to summon a Great Council and persuade the Lords of Westeros that Aerys is unfite to rule, I expect he becomes King Regent and remains Aerys's heir. Aegon, Rhaegar's heir, marries Margaery Tyrell. Cersei Lannister marries Rhaegar (if Elia dies) or Viserys. Rhaenys is sent to Dorne and marries Quentyn Martell. Daenerys marries Viserys (if he doesn't marry Cersei) or  Elbert Arryn.

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@DaviesCherrygrove

One think that should be taken into account is that marriages between the Great Lords of different kingdoms seem to be more the exception than the norm. If it weren't for the war alliances and Rickard's "southron ambitions", we would have nearly no cases.

Let's have a look to the Lords before the war: Aerys was married to another Targaryen (his sister), Tywin to another Lannister (his first cousin), and Riclard to another Stark (his second cousin). Jon Arryn had married a Royce and another Arryn. Mace Tyrell had married a Hightower. Balon Greyjoy a Harlaw. Hoster Tully a Whent.

This seems to be the usual marriage policy in Westeros, and that's how I expect that things would have continued. Great Lords marrying disant relatives or vassals, and Targs marrying among themselves.

On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

Aegon - Margaery Tyrell, daughter of Brendan and Catelyn (comparably Sansa), daughter of Robert and Lyanna

That marriage would only happen if the Targaryens were truly desperate and in need for troops. The Tyrells are upjumped stewards that only have been lords for three centuries. Not fit to marry a Targaryen, and even less a presumptive heir.

Daughters of Lord Stark or Lord Baratheon may be possible, although it still would rise some eyebrows.

On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

Rhaenys - Joffery (Lannister) - child of Cersei and Jamie regardless of who they’re married to so basically still Joffery 

If Cersei had married anyone who had not been Robert, it would have been nearly impossible for her to be with Jaime and share his bed. Only if she had married someone living in King's Landing she and Jaime could have had an affair.

On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

Viserys - Arianne Martell - inevitably becoming her Prince Philip in Dorne

Interesting thought. I doubt the Dornish would be interested in this match, though. A male from out of Dorne, specially a Targaryen prince, may not accept to be ruled by his wife. They would be essentially surrendering the rule of their kingdom to the Targaryens, and they are very proud of their independence.

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Viserys and Daenerys might turn out differently had the rebellion never taken place.  The Daenerys that we all know and love might turn out quite ordinary.  We might have gotten a Daenerys with a personality similar to Margaery Tyrell instead of the very brave and intelligent little girl that we got.  Average and ordinary.  

Likewise, Viserys would turn out like any other pampered boy from a royal household.  Hardships can make people stronger but too much hardships at an early age can ruin a person and make them spiteful and angry.  Viserys might have turned out alright.  

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Daenerys and Viserys would have married each other. It is the Targaryen way to keep the bloodline pure. Daenerys was supposed to maybe marry Rhaegar and then maybe Viserys. I can't remember for sure if she was going to marry Viserys but I now Viserys wanted to have sex with her at the minimum. I am sure if in a position of king then Viserys would want to continue to keep the bloodline pure. 

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On 11/14/2018 at 10:04 PM, The First Bloodrider said:

 

I think Aerys always favored Viserys.  The action would be legit because Aerys commanded it.  Until Dany hatches the family's stash of dragon eggs and then her brothers would bend their knees to the dragon queen.  She who has dragons will always call the shots.

The whole Dance of Dragons was based on a similar scenario of the rightful heir being supplanted by the reigning king's decree. The Targaryen's have a history of not taking it well when their rightful place is supplanted by another. Also, I doubt Dany would get her hands on dragon eggs in this scenario, much less hatch them. Summerhall would've been fresh on everyone's minds still. 

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On 11/15/2018 at 5:36 AM, Endymion I Targaryen said:

Everything depends on how Aerys's reign ends. If his reign continues peacefully, probably Viserys becomes the new heir and marries Daenerys. I wouldn't be surprised if Rhaegar has an accident or is poisoned by Aerys. Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon are held captive. When they grow up, I expect Aegon to marry Arianne and Rhaenys to marry a Baratheon (Renly probably). Aerys continues to sexually abuse Rhaella so maybe we have some more Targaryen offspring.

If Rhaegar manages to summon a Great Council and persuade the Lords of Westeros that Aerys is unfite to rule, I expect he becomes King Regent and remains Aerys's heir. Aegon, Rhaegar's heir, marries Margaery Tyrell. Cersei Lannister marries Rhaegar (if Elia dies) or Viserys. Rhaenys is sent to Dorne and marries Quentyn Martell. Daenerys marries Viserys (if he doesn't marry Cersei) or  Elbert Arryn.

As you wrote.  IF Rhaegar manages to summon a Great Council.  And then talk them into removing Aerys from the throne.  

I don't think Rhaegar would be able to call a Great Council that will support any plans on his part to remove the king from the throne.  Rhaegar had no material grievance because the kingdom was prosperous.  Cruelty is the order of the day and Aerys doing his thing is not enough to remove him from power.  Ramsay's games are known and yet nobody in the north has seen fit to remove him.  Nobody but idealists and fools would want a revolution while the land is prosperous.  Tywin killed men, women, and children.  Nobody lifted a finger to remove him from power.  Hoster Tully burned down a village of innocent people and nobody so much as called him on it.  What Hoster Tully did to that village was many times worse than the red wedding.

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On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

IMO progressive-Rhaegar wouldn’t marry his children to each other - not sure about V and D but though lower level Targaryens theyd be useful for political marriages 

I dont know if we should believe this Rhaegar was soo progressive stuff. It could be propaganda.

On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

Aegon - Margaery Tyrell,  daughter of Brendan and Catelyn (comparably Sansa), daughter of Robert and Lyanna

The Tyrells are not useful unless there is a war or a harsh winter.

"Sansa" is very unlikly. But if we got a prophecy obsessed Rhaegar possible: Elia was fire and "Sansa" would be ice.

Robert and Lyanna have very small chances- there are two better competitors:

Rhaenys to continue the tradition

Daenarys to keep the bloodline purer

On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

Rhaenys - Joffery (Lannister) - child of Cersei and Jamie regardless of who they’re married to so basically still Joffery 

Rhaenys would be married to some great house- or not so great house. I could imagine Rhaenys betrothal as Gennas to a less important house (Florent, Darry, Frey, Connington) because of one of Rhaegars friendships.

On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

Viserys - Arianne Martell - inevitably becoming her Prince Philip in Dorne

If Aerys wanted Vis on the IT a very effective way to get rid of him

On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

Daenrys - Benjen Stark - Benjen moves to KIngs Landing and eventually becomes leader of the Kings Guard...I like the idea of her ending up with a dark haired Stark 

A thirdborn son (and very unlikely to inherit anything after B+C get kids of their own) is a choice that even Tytos wouldnt have made

If she doesnt marry Aegon she could wed into every noble house of the 7K. I would wed her to Tyrell to make up for Shaera Targaryens  broken bethrothal

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On 11/14/2018 at 12:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

My sincere apologies if I am breaking any policies. I check out your forums often but have never posted before. 

I’m sitting here (at 3am) wondering what the marriages of the great houses would look like had the Rebellion never happened.

Welcome to the boards! One word on posting new topics. You can't change a misspelled word in the topic header after you start the topic. You may have noticed that from some remarks. Not to worry. Lots of people do it, and you can ask a moderator like @The hairy bear to do it for you if you want a correction.

On 11/14/2018 at 12:15 AM, DaviesCherrygrove said:

I think you’d get the same answers whether Aerys or Rhaegar were king

if Raegar and Elia stay together we have four available Targaryens...in order of succession; Aegon (not Jon), Rhaenys, Viserys, Daenerys (weird to see Daenerys is a low level royal family member)

IMO progressive-Rhaegar wouldn’t marry his children to each other - not sure about V and D but though lower level Targaryens theyd be useful for political marriages 

Aegon - Margaery Tyrell,  daughter of Brendan and Catelyn (comparably Sansa), daughter of Robert and Lyanna

Rhaenys - Joffery (Lannister) - child of Cersei and Jamie regardless of who they’re married to so basically still Joffery 

Viserys - Arianne Martell - inevitably becoming her Prince Philip in Dorne

Daenrys - Benjen Stark - Benjen moves to KIngs Landing and eventually becomes leader of the Kings Guard...I like the idea of her ending up with a dark haired Stark 

Any more obscure characters I’m not thinking of?

I would doubt the Aegon/Margaery match. Before the War of the Five Kings there are not any marriages between Targaryen and Tyrell. That is largely because the the lack of prestige seen in House Tyrell. "Upjumped stewards" I think is the phrase. Perhaps the Hightowers but not the Tyrells.

Of the Great Houses only the Arryns, the Baratheons, and the Martells have marriages with House Targaryen. So that tradition might guide one's thinking here. Although there was once a brokered marriage between House Stark and House Targaryen that never came to fruition.

If there never was a Robert's Rebellion, then I would say the most likely candidates to marrying into the royal family are Robert, Elbert Arryn, and perhaps Prince Oberyn. Again, I'd have to look at the likely candidates from some old prestigious Houses would be. The Hightowers and the Daynes strike me as possible. Ashara to Viserys? Something like that. Of course the old connection to House Velyaron. Just some thoughts. Again, welcome to the boards.

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Rhaegar would have married his children either together or to their uncle and aunt (Rhaenys with Viserys and Aegon with Daenerys). 

As it is, I think he was attempting to recreate the Aegon/Visenya/Rhaenys triad, so if he'd waited a bit, he might have had Aegon marry both Rhaenys and Daenerys. 

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1 hour ago, anjulibai said:

Rhaegar would have married his children either together or to their uncle and aunt (Rhaenys with Viserys and Aegon with Daenerys). 

As it is, I think he was attempting to recreate the Aegon/Visenya/Rhaenys triad, so if he'd waited a bit, he might have had Aegon marry both Rhaenys and Daenerys. 

As long as Aerys II was alive, it was inevitable that Viserys marry Danaerys. Viserys used to blame a young Dany, after the exile, for not being born earlier, so that Rhaegar could have had a proper Targaryan wife. Aerys didn't like Elia or her children, and whether he'd go so far as to disinherit Rhaegar is debatable, but I think the marriage of Viserys and Danaerys would have been a lock.

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