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Daendrew

GRRM: Speculation that Aegon "the Conqueror" knew about the Others

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In a recent video for Random House, GRRM states in the end that Aegon the Conqueror decided to unify Westeros because he knew of the danger that lurks in the North.

Update: as per Elio's comment below, GRRM was referring to reader speculation.

Edited by Daendrew

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Wow! This is what I had suspected! This is one of the key pieces of information I had been waiting for. I am even more convinced I am right about the bigger picture in the story.

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2 minutes ago, Daendrew said:

In a recent video for Random House, GRRM states in the end that Aegon the Conqueror decided to unify Westeros because he knew of the danger that lurks in the North.

 

Very nice find, @Daendrew.

I think this is one of those things that is never explicitly stated, but makes sense all things considered.

The Prince That Was Promised prophecy has obviously been around among the Targaryens for a while, and from Aemon's statement in ASOS, they seem to connect TPTWP and The War For The Dawn.

I think it is likely that Aegon I originally believed he, his sisters, and their dragons were TPTWP and the Three Heads of the Dragon, or at least that they would come from them.

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28 minutes ago, Daendrew said:

In a recent video for Random House, GRRM states in the end that Aegon the Conqueror decided to unify Westeros because he knew of the danger that lurks in the North.

Fabulous find! This is awesome.

5 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I think it is likely that Aegon I originally believed he, his sisters, and their dragons were TPTWP and the Three Heads of the Dragon, or at least that they would come from them.

:agree:

And I think it might fit with that weird tidbit we get from Davos about the Stranger statue from Aegon's sept on Dragonstone: it is "carved to look more animal than human" (Clash, Davos I). I think Aegon and Co. not only had heard of the Others, but were wary of the skinchangers.

Even helps explain why Alysanne interfered with the Watch.

All in all, they thought of themselves as saviors, justifying all the carnage. Very Night's Kingly. 

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Going to head things off by noting that George prefaces his remark by saying "There is a lot of speculation".

This video would give the impression that that speculation is in the book... but in fact, it is not. There is nothing like it whatsoever in F&B. George is referring to speculation from fans.

That he brings it up at all may indeed mean fans should give this theory some credence. But I'd suggest that he's bringing it up just as a way to bridge the content of F&B to ASoIaF/GoT, because after all this is a video aimed at making people who are familiar with the latter interested in buying the former.

Edited by Ran

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1 minute ago, Ran said:

Going to head things off by noting that George prefaces his remark by saying "There is a lot of speculation".

This video would give the impression that that speculation is in the book... but in fact, it is not. There is nothing like it whatsoever in F&B. George is referring to speculation from fans.

That he brings it up at all may indeed mean fans should give this theory some credence. But I'd suggest that he's bringing it up just as a way to bridge the content of F&B to ASoIaF/GoT, because after all this is a video aimed at making people who are familiar with the latter interested in buying the former.

Thanks for bringing me back to Earth.

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6 minutes ago, Ran said:

Going to head things off by noting that George prefaces his remark by saying "There is a lot of speculation".

This video would give the impression that that speculation is in the book... but in fact, it is not. There is nothing like it whatsoever in F&B. George is referring to speculation from fans.

That he brings it up at all may indeed mean fans should give this theory some credence. But I'd suggest that he's bringing it up just as a way to bridge the content of F&B to ASoIaF/GoT, because after all this is a video aimed at making people who are familiar with the latter interested in buying the former.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was surprised that GRRM would make such a reveal in a promo video. 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Westerlands

The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. Archmaester Perestan has put forward a different, more plausible speculation, suggesting that the Valyrians had in ancient days reached as far as Oldtown but suffered some great reverse or tragedy there that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter.

 

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest

A common myth, oft heard amongst the ignorant, claims that Aegon Targaryen had never set foot upon the soil of Westeros until the day he set sail to conquer it, but this cannot be true. Years before that voyage, the Painted Table had been carved and decorated at Lord Aegon's command: a massive slab of wood, some fifty feet long, carved in the shape of Westeros and painted to show all the woods and rivers and towns and castles of the Seven Kingdoms. Plainly, Aegon's interest in Westeros long predated the events that drove him to war. As well, there are reliable reports of Aegon and his sister Visenya visiting the Citadel of Oldtown in their youth, and hawking on the Arbor as guests of Lord Redwyne. He may have visited Lannisport as well; accounts differ.

 

I theorize that there’s stonemen under Casterly Rock (Jaime’s dream of things in the water and lots of other stuff) and maybe also Oldtown. Pycelle reports an outbreak of the grey plague there when he was a child. I also speculated some sort of link between stonemen, Others, maybe the stonemen kept in place by iron swords in the crypts of Winterfell. Interesting that the Valyrians are linked to Oldtown and Casterly Rock, and Aegon visits Oldtown with a rumor of a visit to Lannisport.

 

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Oh wow. this is exciting. I guess we know that it actually was the mighty, superior in every way Valyrians that did come to Westeros a long time ago. Aegon was just reaffirming what his own ancestors dreamed of. 

Quote

       The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown

If indeed this first fortress is Valyrian, it suggests that the dragonlords came to Westeros thousands of years before they carved out their outpost on Dragonstone, long before the coming of the Andals, or even the First Men. If so, did they come seeking trade? Were they slavers, mayhaps seeking after giants? Did they seek to learn the magic of the children of the forest, with their greenseers and their weirwoods? Or was there some darker purpose?

Such questions abound even to this day. Before the Doom of Valyria, maesters and archmaesters oft traveled to the Freehold in search of answers, but none were ever found. Septon Barth's claim that the Valyrians came to Westeros because their priests prophesied that the Doom of Man would come out of the land beyond the narrow sea can safely be dismissed as nonsense, as can many of Barth's queerer beliefs and suppositions.

More troubling, and more worthy of consideration, are the arguments put forth by those who claim that the first fortress is not Valyrian at all.

 

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12 hours ago, bent branch said:

Thanks for bringing me back to Earth.

No Earth bring back necessary.  I listened to the video just now and even though he ascribes the belief to speculation, he doesn't go out of his way to deny it or make it ambiguous.  I think we can take this at face value with just a little reservation.  

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9 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

Oh wow. this is exciting. I guess we know that it actually was the mighty, superior in every way Valyrians that did come to Westeros a long time ago. Aegon was just reaffirming what his own ancestors dreamed of. 

 

Reading that quote, though, doesn't it seem obvious that the Valyrians did not come to Westeros then because there was no Valyria? Valyria starts rising not long after the Long Night ends.  It is far more likely that the Last Hero was a dragon rider, who defeated the Others and built a few structures of fused black stone, had some descendents and they migrated to Essos.  They became the Valyrians.

And that is why Aegon would know of the Others.

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I've thought this for a few years, there's got to be a reason why he all of a sudden decided to conquer and unite the seven kingdoms. I wonder if there was a red comet the day he decided to conquer. I think we will know how much the Targaryens knew about the long night if we ever get to see The signs and portents book. 

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I'm not too surprised to discover that Aegon and Rhaegar share an obsession for a ptwp prophecy. And the fact George made mention of it gives me the impression that it's a nod in the right direction. As opposed to firm fact. 

But i'm just guessing. It makes sense that the Targaryens have their own legends and myths etc. These guys are barely 300 years apart. So the tales could of easily been passed down through the families. 

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9 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

Reading that quote, though, doesn't it seem obvious that the Valyrians did not come to Westeros then because there was no Valyria? Valyria starts rising not long after the Long Night ends.  It is far more likely that the Last Hero was a dragon rider, who defeated the Others and built a few structures of fused black stone, had some descendents and they migrated to Essos.  They became the Valyrians.

And that is why Aegon would know of the Others.

I very much believe this to be the case. I believe Garth Green's family was the dragon lords of Westeros. Serwyn is said to have been a K.G. to a Targaryen King, then TWOIAF goes on to list 5 Gardener kings he served. Saving Daeryssa from a Giant. 

Then on top of that. Uthor steals Garth's daughter (Daughter of a god), Maris. Their children from the Maesters.

Hightowers were said to have killed the dragons that roosted on Battle Isle. This could be dragons, or dragon riders imo.

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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Why not just fly north though and attack the Others? Why wait for them? Why not root them out and attack first? 

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7 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Why not just fly north though and attack the Others? Why wait for them? Why not root them out and attack first? 

This is why:

Spoiler

In Fire and Blood it is revealed that dragons refuse to fly over the wall or cannot fly past it.

 

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22 hours ago, bent branch said:

Wow! This is what I had suspected! This is one of the key pieces of information I had been waiting for. I am even more convinced I am right about the bigger picture in the story.

What is your theory? Very interested!

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7 minutes ago, Daendrew said:

This is why:

  Hide contents

In Fire and Blood it is revealed that dragons refuse to fly over the wall or cannot fly past it.

 

That' not the only way to attack the North though. Why not just fly around it. Same for the Others. There is a bridge they can simply walk across. 
Plus we dont know the dragon can't. Dany notes her dragon goes where it wants. Even if true, Aegon would need to fly north to find this out first. Plus he is sitting on a lot of dragon glass. He may not even need the dragons. Simply an army stocked with weapons of dragon glass. 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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2 hours ago, Daendrew said:

This is why:

  Reveal hidden contents

In Fire and Blood it is revealed that dragons refuse to fly over the wall or cannot fly past it.

 

Silverwing doesn't do that, not necessarily all dragons. What should be kept in mind at that point is that Silverwing is a pretty young dragon at that point, and not Vhagar or Balerion. We have no idea what they would have done in her stead.

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