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Canon Claude

Would Robert have been Happier in Stannis’ Position?

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It’s the age old scenario that people bring up when it comes to Robert and Stannis. They whole switcheroo scenario. But the thing is that everyone who brings that scenario up usually just wants to point out how much better off the realm would be if Stannis was the eldest son and took the throne. Whether that’s true or not is a serious issue for me, but that’s not my point. Would Robert have been happier as the second son?

Because frankly, i love that dynamic. Robert furious at Stannis for getting to marry the one woman Robert actually loves, furious because Stannis will never appreciate her the way Robert will, Robert hating Rhaegar so much that he’ll support Stannis to the death to try and destroy the Targaryens, and then Robert becoming ruler of the Stormlands after Stannis is crowned. But would Robert forget lyanna? Would he look at Stannis and go “Well, at least I’m not king!”? Would his story have changed at all? And what would he do if he found out that Stannis’ kids were illegitimate (assuming Cersei doesn’t produce kids with Stannis).

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He would've probably been happier in the sense that he could just do whatever the fuck he wanted to do. He wouldn't have had any responsibilities as the Lord of Storms End. I could imagine him going to Essos and joining or creating a sellsword company.  

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Stannis would be miserable as always but an highly effective leader and westeros wouldnt be the same mess

Robert would be free to whore and dedicate himself utterly to warfare ,hed never grow fat hed remain a badass into middle age ,a pitbull to be set on his kings enemies

Renly with stannis as head of the kingdom and family would have to not be such a shallow dude hed have to actualy be of worth to the kingdom ,hed still love loras so would need to be married off to margery to be with loras  and stop a scandal

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It's impossible to know for sure but I doubt it.  Robert would be happier living the life of a mercenary.  He would be better off trading places with somebody like Daario Naharis.  Stannis is a more responsible person than Robert but his harsh way of delivering "justice" is going to cut his reign short.  Westeros can look forward to another rebellion in the near future.  The fine difference between Aerys and Stannis is going to be lost for the majority of people.  At least Aerys was selective in who he burned.  Examine the decisions made by Stannis and it should be obvious that he can't get away with it during peace time.  He could get away with burning his soldiers with impunity.  Burning a nobleman and his own nephew is not going to endear him to people.  He will go too far and that will cause another rebellion.  

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16 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

It's impossible to know for sure but I doubt it.  Robert would be happier living the life of a mercenary.  He would be better off trading places with somebody like Daario Naharis.  Stannis is a more responsible person than Robert but his harsh way of delivering "justice" is going to cut his reign short.  Westeros can look forward to another rebellion in the near future.  The fine difference between Aerys and Stannis is going to be lost for the majority of people.  At least Aerys was selective in who he burned.  Examine the decisions made by Stannis and it should be obvious that he can't get away with it during peace time.  He could get away with burning his soldiers with impunity.  Burning a nobleman and his own nephew is not going to endear him to people.  He will go too far and that will cause another rebellion.  

Doubt it. He could have had all the Lords that supported Renly punished but he didn't because he knew their value. He's not stupid. He lets Mel and her followers do what they want within his own castle's and ranks because he needs the power the red god supplies. If he was King, he wouldn't need that power and would restrict them a lot more. Free to worship, fine, but even though he's not great at him himself he does know the value of PR and leniency.

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Just now, Adam Yozza said:

Doubt it. He could have had all the Lords that supported Renly punished but he didn't because he knew their value. He's not stupid. He lets Mel and her followers do what they want within his own castle's and ranks because he needs the power the red god supplies. If he was King, he wouldn't need that power and would restrict them a lot more. Free to worship, fine, but even though he's not great at him himself he does know the value of PR and leniency.

And this is the man who wants to remove the brothels.  That kind of heavy handedness is going to upset a lot of wealthy people as well as those who enjoyed the services of those establishments.

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1 hour ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

And this is the man who wants to remove the brothels.  That kind of heavy handedness is going to upset a lot of wealthy people as well as those who enjoyed the services of those establishments.

Not to mention the smallfolk (i.e. the ones who predominantly comprise, clothe and feed his armies) who have close ties to that industry.

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Assuming that Robert was still besotted with Lyanna, he'd still resent and hate Stannis, and lose himself to hedonism after that as Lord of Storm's End. 

Regarding Robert and Stannis switching spots, though, I'm not sure if Stannis' Rebellion would have succeeded. We can assume that if Stannis was the eldest son, he wouldn't have been nearly as dour and bitter as he was, and he'd be the one befriending Ned, but I don't know if he'd have been the sheer force that Robert was during the rebellion. Assuming Robert is still the same, he would certainly have been an asset at Stannis' side rather than leaving him at Storm's End. So either you leave Robert behind and hope that he has Stannis' resolve, or you bring him to the field, in which case someone else commands Storm's End and gives up the siege when the going gets tough. 

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Robert woulda eventually grow bored with being lord of Storms End and leave it to Renly which would create some friction between King Stannis and his little brother.

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It's my favourite type of alternate universe. One where the Baratheon brothers were united and worked together to better the realm. 
Robert would be there to lead in battle. Stannis would make the better administrator. Renly would win the hearts of the people. 

It's all too neat and tidy for Westeros, though. Lords, maesters ans septons alike would of eventually found the cracks in their relationship and exploited them. How long until Lloras felt slighted by one of Renly's older brothers? How long until Robert got it in his head to have sex with another lords wife whilst deep into his cups? How long until one of Stannis' impositions pissed off a lord or brother?
There's a hundred ways for it to all go wrong. It's why Ned is hopeful for his children. He makes a comment like, let them grow with nothing but love between them. I can't remember the exact quote. But I do clearly remember Jon's painful memory where Robb assured him in no uncertain terms that Jon could never rule WF. He wasn't even being serious with the claim. The two were just playing at swords. But it is clear that the remark stayed with him. Buried deep. 

It's tragic, and doomed to fail. 

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I think Robert would still complain even if everything that he wanted came to happen.

He took all pleasures of being king, lived the life the way he wanted, he spended money like no tomorow, went into tournaments, parties, hunting, fucked and drinked himself into a early grave, he traveled around the kingdom and enjoyed the biggest summer in Westerors history while he ignored any advice that went against he will and he never tooked any responsability for his kingship, he let Arryn rule for him. 

The only big problem of his life was Cersei, and even though she is the worst wife material ever, I don't see any other woman that would be happly married with Robert if his behaviour doesn't change. Even his allegedly children he ignored, he never spend time with his bastards.

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:09 AM, Canon Claude said:

It’s the age old scenario that people bring up when it comes to Robert and Stannis. They whole switcheroo scenario. But the thing is that everyone who brings that scenario up usually just wants to point out how much better off the realm would be if Stannis was the eldest son and took the throne. Whether that’s true or not is a serious issue for me, but that’s not my point. Would Robert have been happier as the second son?

Because frankly, i love that dynamic. Robert furious at Stannis for getting to marry the one woman Robert actually loves, furious because Stannis will never appreciate her the way Robert will, Robert hating Rhaegar so much that he’ll support Stannis to the death to try and destroy the Targaryens, and then Robert becoming ruler of the Stormlands after Stannis is crowned. But would Robert forget lyanna? Would he look at Stannis and go “Well, at least I’m not king!”? Would his story have changed at all? And what would he do if he found out that Stannis’ kids were illegitimate (assuming Cersei doesn’t produce kids with Stannis).

I do not know if the realm would be better , but Robert would probably be much happier .

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