White Ravens Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 6 hours ago, The Map Guy said: Why do you guys keep thinking I am the only one to know this Top Secret Theory? Six others know about it now. I started this thread not to flaunt, but to recruit six highly decorated ASOIAF veterans to discuss the impact of this theory internally in the books, and externally in the outside world. The fact that none of these six highly decorated ASOIAF veterans have came out publicly saying "false alarm, Map Guy has bullshit" ... what does that say? We are still in discussion. I don't want to prematurely reveal this theory and offend a group of people known for destroying other people's careers. I don't want this group coming after GRRM. I want assess this potential threat with the committee. Yes, Top Secret Theory is just a theory. But a theory which only has a .0001% of just being a coincidence since I linked Hyrkoon the Hero, Yin Tar, Neferion & Eldric the Shadowchaser. A theory can only be confirmed if GRRM writes or says it. R+L=J is still just a theory. And thanks to the people who are defending me. One ten-thousandth of a percentage point? Wow! How soon can we expect your small council to speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Remiem said: If the internet breaks, will dragons come out? 3 hours ago, Daendrew said: The sound of the crowds and the smell of blood will bring them. HA!! See, I knew there was a point to keep track of this multilayered and leveled batch of trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, White Ravens said: One ten-thousandth of a percentage point? Wow! How soon can we expect your small council to speak? Hmm, maybe we should find out if the #TheoryGuard needs it's own guard? I can't think of anything spiffy to call them, though: #GuardofTheTheoryGuard ? #Guard'sWatch ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Lady Fevre Dream said: Hmm, maybe we should find out if the #TheoryGuard needs it's own guard? I can't think of anything spiffy to call them, though: #GuardofTheTheoryGuard ? #Guard'sWatch ? What are seven knights of the #Theorygaurd compared to the two thousand gold cloaks of the #TheoryWatch? Storm the battlements! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three-Fingered Pete Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said: Hmm, maybe we should find out if the #TheoryGuard needs it's own guard? I can't think of anything spiffy to call them, though: #GuardofTheTheoryGuard ? #Guard'sWatch ? Keepers of the Plot That Was Promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Daendrew said: What are seven knights of the #Theorygaurd compared to the two thousand gold cloaks of the #TheoryWatch? Storm the battlements! LOL Ok, then, bring me a.................map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Trefayne said: Keepers of the Plot That Was Promised. Touche' You win the internet, from me, for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coconut God Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said: Hmm, maybe we should find out if the #TheoryGuard needs it's own guard? I can't think of anything spiffy to call them, though: #GuardofTheTheoryGuard ? #Guard'sWatch ? #TheNetTrolletts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaena Targaryen Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 before #BrotherhoodWithoutBelief after #tldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 On 11/21/2018 at 7:41 PM, The Map Guy said: Like I said, one of the reasons why I don't want to go public with this secret message is because one of the groups that may get offended has the potential to make GRRM's life miserable for the rest of his life and career. So this is one of the things this committee will evaluate. So, essentially, you have projected a hidden message into ASOIAF that you believe will cause GRRM real trouble if not lead to riots in the streets, the fall of governments and the end of life as we know it. If you genuinely thought you had uncovered a secret message with potentially explosive consequences in real life you would have been better advised to consider if it was genuinely GRRM's intent to do so rather than your misinterpretation and false projection as the answer seems rather obvious given the guy is a fantasy writer not a political or cultural arsonist. I'm rather torn now as after all this palaver I want to actually know what you have been making such a fuss over and i'll admit, I'm expecting to titter behind my hand, but I don't want you to wrongly tarnish GRRM with troublesome allegations that you've read in the tea leaves. That would be beyond wrong on general principles and doubly so given this is a fan site for his work. On 11/22/2018 at 5:47 AM, rustythesmith said: Considering Martin's diligence regarding fair play and the resulting "the truth will out" phenomenon, when somebody says they have solved something with absolute certainty I tend to believe them. It is very rare that people express certainty about any remotely complex or long standing mystery. This is a truly bizarre and even more so given how this forum works. Just the other month some guy was repeatedly telling me Old Nan was the three eyed crow and boy was he CERTAIN of it. It doesn't make him right and I can't quite believe you are simply persuaded by the degree of CERTAINTY in the person proposing the theory. We have books dealing with the bible code and we have had the corn code on this forum too. Patterns and puzzles are often shapes in the clouds the reader twists into whatever he subconsciously wants to find and the author is known to tell you sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. On 11/22/2018 at 3:07 PM, The Map Guy said: Its a gift to be able to find hidden puzzles and then decipher them. That is how World War II was won on both European & Pacific campaigns. The Brits decoded the German messages, the American decoded the Japanese messages. Well, keep cranking the enigma machine and hoping you "solve" the puzzle. Given how GRRM draws inspiration from so many cultures and myths and synthesises elements of those into whatever he feels fits nicely into his world and makes for good storytellling he most likely won't even know what you are talking about. The difference between ASOIAF and top secret messages is that the first is a story that is meant to be understood, the latter was meant to be unintelligible without a cipher. On 11/22/2018 at 5:46 PM, The Coconut God said: If you have a new and interesting theory, you should just post it and stake your claim. I highly doubt people will take it as seriously as you think. Word. Unless it's the kind of thing that could cause a #pizzagate reaction from some oddballs. Can't we just have a good old crazy ASOIAF theory about time travelling children of the forest or aliens causing the Long Night? 9 hours ago, The Map Guy said: I don't want to prematurely reveal this theory and offend a group of people known for destroying other people's careers. I don't want this group coming after GRRM. I want assess this potential threat with the committee. The more you say things like this, the more I think you should leave it alone. Either you are dead wrong and may cause him trouble because of your allegations or, more likely, your theory will be a damp squib. I'm not sure if it's worth the risk of the trouble it might cause him or the disappointment that it was mundane and not particularly remarkable after all. You've kept us mildly entertained for a few days, that's something at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustythesmith Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 10 hours ago, the trees have eyes said: So, essentially, you have projected a hidden message into ASOIAF that you believe will cause GRRM real trouble if not lead to riots in the streets, the fall of governments and the end of life as we know it. If you genuinely thought you had uncovered a secret message with potentially explosive consequences in real life you would have been better advised to consider if it was genuinely GRRM's intent to do so rather than your misinterpretation and false projection as the answer seems rather obvious given the guy is a fantasy writer not a political or cultural arsonist. He seems to be claiming that he has found something, not that he has placed it there. You have already decided that what he has found has no valid substance before you have seen it. I don't need to point out the flaws in that reasoning. I think you're well aware of the intellectually dishonest tactics you're trying to use to discredit him at all costs. All because you can't tolerate the idea that maybe, just maybe, somebody might know something you don't about a silly story and is being cautious about sharing it for fear of causing more harm than good. Quote and i'll admit, I'm expecting to titter behind my hand, Trust me, we noticed. Quote but I don't want you to wrongly tarnish GRRM with troublesome allegations that you've read in the tea leaves. Some random fan on a forum is going to tarnish GRRM and you're going to protect GRRM? Wait, isn't this the same thing you are criticizing him for? Make up your mind. Is it a worthwhile pursuit or not? Quote That would be beyond wrong on general principles and doubly so given this is a fan site for his work. Oh boy. I'm sure we and the site can survive any interpretation of the story. Even unpopular ones. Quote This is a truly bizarre and even more so given how this forum works. Just the other month some guy was repeatedly telling me Old Nan was the three eyed crow and boy was he CERTAIN of it. It doesn't make him right and I can't quite believe you are simply persuaded by the degree of CERTAINTY in the person proposing the theory. There you go misrepresenting again. I didn't say it makes him right. I said I tend to believe people who say they have found something solid. Those are two very different things. There's a longer explanation of my reasoning for it earlier, but in short it is because I believe it is a better strategy. Though it may seem foreign to you, I try to reserve judgement about somebody's theory until after I've actually heard it. Quote We have books dealing with the bible code and we have had the corn code on this forum too. Patterns and puzzles are often shapes in the clouds the reader twists into whatever he subconsciously wants to find and the author is known to tell you sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Patterns and puzzles are often placed there for the readers to find, too. The author is known to say a lot of things about the patterns and puzzles in these books. "The books are filled with little puzzles and enigmas and reversals." Both quotes are true. One doesn't preclude the other. Quote Well, keep cranking the enigma machine and hoping you "solve" the puzzle. Given how GRRM draws inspiration from so many cultures and myths and synthesises elements of those into whatever he feels fits nicely into his world and makes for good storytellling he most likely won't even know what you are talking about. The difference between ASOIAF and top secret messages is that the first is a story that is meant to be understood, the latter was meant to be unintelligible without a cipher. Well I'm glad we have you to provide the true insight into Martin's intentions and steer us away from people like the OP whose interpretations are undoubtedly pure projection and wish fulfillment from the depths of his ideological subconscious. The book is the cipher. ASOIAF can be analyzed in many different ways. On the surface is a narrative layer constrained by the POV's perceptions, biases, and misunderstandings. Below that is maybe a secondary narrative layer that requires us to read what isn't written. That would involve breaking free of the POV's perceptions by questioning character motivations, cross referencing chapters to find faulty perceptions, and synthesizing POVs to gain a higher resolution picture of the narrative. Below that somewhere is a meta layer that can only be accessed through faith, or rather by presupposing that there is value in metaphor. That's where narrative events transform into precedents that map how to approach the puzzles. All the layers are meant to be intelligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 At this point the OP deserves to tell us as a warning if nothing else. He could be saving those us of readers with delicate sensibilities from harmful fiction and or opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reekazoid Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: At this point the OP deserves to tell us as a warning if nothing else. He could be saving those us of readers with delicate sensibilities from harmful fiction and or opinions. Haha well said, sir. By the old gods and the new, I would give much and more to have thought of and claimed the forum name John Snowflake when I created this account. To the OP, I just can't decide if The Map Guy is being dramatic for publicity, or genuinely thinks he is in a position to protect GRRM from himself. The latter scenario falls somewhere between naiveté and arrogance. GRRM is wealthier than the Iron Bank. He has millions of adoring , nearly rabid fans , starved for the rest of the story, and a publisher that knows he is a prize cash cow. And that's not counting revenue from television projects. What's more, he has spent decades writing about topics that make people uncomfortable and which can certainly induce emotional responses, including among survivors of some of the atrocities depicted in the story. He handles this masterfully. If GRRM does in fact leave literary clues in all his works, of such quality and subtlety that it has spawned an unparalleled fanalysis phenomenon , then he certainly knows that some bright young The Map Guy is going to come along and figure it all out... So if GRRM is going to write things in the plain text that can offend people, then he is certainly going to drop things into the subtext that can offend people. I trust that someone as intelligent and successful as GRRM is going to take full responsibility for anything they write. While I can think of at least one demographic that would theoretically be capable of perhaps trying to literally, physically, kill GRRM if offended enough, I can't think of a single one that would damage his career or finances. All press is good press. More buzz is more advertising. If his publisher were to foolishly drop him over some controversy, there'd be a line of others waiting, begging, to take him on... Or in this digital era he could easily self-publish. I for one would buy any and all of his books regardless of who was offended by an opinion, depiction, or historical parallel. I am 100% sure that I am not the only one. Even if this ersatz bombshell revelation had been written decades ago, before the world changed for the worse, thus exposing risks that didn't exist at the time of the writing, that doesn't matter either. As I've argued above, GRRM is well aware of what he has written and he has had plenty of time in the subsequent body of work to add more historical material to correct, clarify, or otherwise retcon said clues. If they're in there, and he hasn't fixed them, then he doesn't care that someone will come along and figure it out. He REALLY doesn't need your protection. So if you're confident in your theory, I say present it and receive the accolades or beatings as warranted. But really, GRRM is going to be fine, no matter what you think you found. The more I wonder whether that part of the OP's proposal is serious, the more I have to wonder if we're being trolled. And if so it's a perfect caper, because if the theory is analyzed by the cognoscetti and found to be sound, then the OP can say "It was a close thing, but we decided in the end that the world needs the truth, come what may" at which point he is a literary rock star, and a hero to the masses... A veritable Tom Sawyer. If on the other hand the theory is garbage, all the OP has to do is put on a grave, somber face and say "Sorry guys, we've decided that the world isn't ready for this theory" at which point the gain in literary status is limited to the bump from the secrecy campaign, but the hero mantle is still assured. You beautiful bastard you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 So now that 6 others know it, they can at least tell us if it holds water or would hold some water after some tin foiling, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirArthur Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: So now that 6 others know it, they can at least tell us if it holds water or would hold some water after some tin foiling, right? In the dream his friends rode with him [...]. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist. They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, SirArthur said: In the dream his friends rode with him [...]. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist. They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. 12+1=13 Last Hero Math 6+1=7 Night's King or Stranger Math... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: So now that 6 others know it, they can at least tell us if it holds water or would hold some water after some tin foiling, right? They could... if they existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coconut God Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Reekazoid said: To the OP, I just can't decide if The Map Guy is being dramatic for publicity, or genuinely thinks he is in a position to protect GRRM from himself. The latter scenario falls somewhere between naiveté and arrogance. GRRM is wealthier than the Iron Bank. He has millions of adoring , nearly rabid fans , starved for the rest of the story, and a publisher that knows he is a prize cash cow. And that's not counting revenue from television projects. I don't get the protection angle either. If anything, this is an invitation for other people to come up with potentially offensive and dangerous Azor Ahai theories of their own in hopes of figuring out the secret. What kind of message can it possibly send? Could it be praising Hitler? Mocking Islam? Condoning rape? Unmasking the Illuminati? Questioning the cuteness of kittens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neddy's Girl Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Wait, what, this dude thinks kittens aren't cute? Get him! At least this thread is amusing, for all the wrong reasons, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 AA is in fact Jason Bourne and an offshoot of a huge CIA conspiracy . Or maybe AA = tPtwP = tStWMtW etc. = Jon Snow, but I am probably overreaching here . The truth is out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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