Jump to content
AliceRose

Problematic aspects of Sansa`s education

Recommended Posts

At my very first reading I was perceiving Sansa as an unlikeable character. I ought to admit my feelings against her used to be pretty strong. From reading several ASOIAF related forums I have got the idea that my first impressions on Sansa are widely shared. It is curious because she didn't do anything truly despicable, she is just a child, her mistakes could be easily overlooked and yet she gets an incredible amount of criticism bordering with hatred.

My strong feelings of dislike toward her pushed me to want to understand more about what exactly I didn't like. Which traits of Sansa`s character were making her so unbearable to me. I have started to read this forum as well as similar platforms in other languages and most importantly I did a second re-read.. and then a third and a fourth. By now I should have read all Sansa related chapters a hundred times each. She is a facinating object of study.

Forum opinions on Sansa are very interesting, but unfortunately it happens quite often that Sansa fans and Sansa haters alike give completely false and unproven motivations to her most controversial decisions. For example in my opinion too many people claimed that Sansa has made a conscious decision to say nothing in Darry during the hearing, haters say that she had consciously decied to lie for her egoistic interests, some Sansa fans say that she had consciously decided to avoide confrontation because she is smart and it wouldn't be wise to ruin her relationships with her future family. She was scared to death, her eyes were full of tears, she didn't decide anything at all, let alone being conscious about the consequences of her words.

Sansa is an absolute masterpiece of literature work, Martin did an incredible amount of care and details into her. I believe that only several careful and unbiased re-reads can help to flesh out her true personality.

Well that's was a long introduction. I will try to give you my answer to the question which traits of Sansa`s character are so unbearable for many of us.. Sansa`s education was questionable on so many levels that I wonder how did she manage to come up as a decent human being. I will stop talking too much and just bring to your attention problematic aspects of Sansa`s life.

There are two main issues with Sansa`s upbringing: total neglect from her parents and awful influence from an ignorant, incompetent, misogynistic teacher. Both factors are equally allarming.

Edited by AliceRose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You started an interesting topic, as far as I can tell... But I think the forum ate at least half of your post, because for me it just simply ends in the discussion of Ned's reaction of Sansa at the tournament - followed by a lot of blank space.

So... What and how much are we missing? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sansa is the only Stark's kid with POV who is not remembering any of her parents teachings, she is not recalling them as role models or us figures of comfort during hardship. Only once Sansa wished to be strong as her mother. Unfortunately Cat`s influence on Sansa is almost imperceptible. Sansa`s true and only life mentor was septa Mordane, she is the one who shaped Sansa`s character.

We know little about Cat but it is safe to say that Ned neglected Sansa altogether. And I don't even want to talk about Darry, too much has been already told. How on earth is possible that Ned didn't find a moment alone with Sansa to speak about what has happened? She was destroyed by her loss, troubled by the prospects of the engagement, she was utterly lost and confused. Sansa didn't understand what happened, she don't know who to blame. She drew DANGEROUSLY wrong conclusions out of the incident. Ned was aware that Sansa is making some serious mistakes of judgment and he din`t care to discuss with the truth and helping Sansa overcome the situation and maybe make her take some lesson from it.

The are two other situations, much less discussed than Darry, that show a little of how Sansa`s human and moral development was neglected by Ned.

Both Eddard and Catelyn share an equal view on the tournaments, War and Death should not be a game, I would say it is a core value of the Stark family. Death is not a game is a moral standard for Ned. Sansa had no clue about such a fundamental value of her family. When Sansa asked to go to the tournament he just told her off harshly. He just didn't care to pass over the understanding of the basic things to Sansa. During the tournament things got worse, a young knight was killed right in front of Sansa. Ned's dislike of tournaments took a concrete form. I man was killed in front of his daughter's eyes and Ned did not deem it a good enough reason to speak to Sansa to see maybe she is scared, maybe she needs some explanations.

If only Ned wondered what does Sansa think about the episode, he would not be happy at all with her answer.

Quote

 The young knight in the blue cloak was nothing to her, some stranger from the Vale of Arryn whose name she had forgotten as soon as she heard it. And now the world would forget his name too, Sansa realized; there would be no songs sung for him. That was sad.

It is again about core northern moral values, Ned was warning seven years old Bran about the responsibilities of taking a human life, it is a grave task and no one should not forget how the death looks like.

Quote

   Yet our way is the older way. The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man’s life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.
    “One day, Bran, you will be Robb’s bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is.”

This is as well one of the many subtle manipulation performed by Martin to antagonize Sansa with respect to her family. I believe that Sansa`s reaction was perfectly normal and Ned wanted his children to follow his ideas he should take a bit more care of communicating these ideas.

Second situation I would like to highlight happened during the Mountain trial

Quote

 He caught a glimpse of Septa Mordane in the gallery, with his daughter Sansa beside her. Ned felt a flash of anger; this was no place for a girl.

Same scheme, Ned shelter Sansa from any possible harmful information and when shit finally happens he ignores it. If he was worried of what Sansa might have heard and what she has understood why did he actually speak to her? Sansa was anxious about her father's decision and she had lots of little ponies in her head. That was a priceless occasion to explain how harsh and dangerouse the life can be and the difference between justice and vengeance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sansa got exactly the same kind of education as Arya and, as it happens, they're nothing alike. So I'd say the education they've gotten had very little to do with what sort of people they are. And their education is most likely very similar to what most other noble ladies are experiencing in Westeros.

Sansa is a romance-obsessed teenager which is quite normal and quite common. She is also not a very bright teenager, which is also quite normal and quite common. Teenagers not following their parents teachings? - Again, also quite normal and quite common. Some grow out of it and become smarter, some don't, some are fortunate to never experience the 'dumb teenager' phase. That's all there is.

Edited by wia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

12 hours ago, AliceRose said:

There are two main issues with Sansa`s upbringing: total neglect from her parents and awful influence from an ignorant, incompetent, misogynistic teacher. Both factors are equally allarming.

I think both your assessments are unsustained and unfair. Nothing we have seen so far supports that Sansa was neglected, or that Septa Mordane was ignorant, incompetent and misogynistic.

We know Eddard has lunch with her daughters every day and talks with her regularly. That he delegates most of the education to a speta it's only normal in their society (and also in our own, fwiw)

Sansa is gracious, educated and polite. She can sing, dance and sew. She is pious (both with old and new gods). She is smart, and knows how to behave in public. She is able to correctly identify people that she has never seen before only based on their ages and clothes. In other words, she is the perfect lady for any lord that she'd marry. And that's exactly what she was educated for.

Another thing that it's important to take into account is that she is only eleven. Her education was not finished. An eleven old girl put in the impossible positions that Sansa found herself will obviously make mistakes. That's to be expected, and we don't need to imagine childhood traumas for that.

You blame on Eddard the situation at Darry, but it was Robert who put Sansa on a position where she had to lie or publicly accuse her future husband and king of being a liar.

You also say Eddard was a bad father for failing to explain Sansa her opinions on jousting. But again: she's just eleven and she is having fun for the first time in months. The tourney had been organized to honor the Hand. Why should Eddard conflict her even more?

Sansa fared much better that most eleven year old girls would have done in her place. And IMHO, this is because she had a great education and excellent role-models.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The second part of my post is about a more damaging influence in Sansa`s upbringing. Almost everything that Septa Mordane taught to Sansa was questionable from a modern reader point of view.

Quote

“I’ve never seen an aurochs,” Sansa said, feeding a piece of bacon to Lady under the table. The direwolf took it from her hand, as delicate as a queen. Septa Mordane sniffed in disapproval. “A noble lady does not feed dogs at her table,” she said, breaking off another piece of comb and letting the honey drip down onto her bread.
“She’s not a dog, she’s a direwolf,” Sansa pointed out as Lady licked her fingers with a rough tongue. “Anyway, Father said we could keep them with us if we want.”
The septa was not appeased. “You’re a good girl, Sansa, but I do vow, when it comes to that creature you’re as willful as your sister Arya.” She scowled.

Being willful is a negative trait of character in septa's eyes, oppressing Sansa`s will, opinions and expressions is a constant in Mordane educational method. Septa is acting very unprofessional in this case, she is setting a negative comparison with Arya when Arya is not even there in the room, I have been told not to speak ill about someone who is not present. She is creating a conflict between sisters where there is absolutly no reason for it.  Septa took a very bad habit to criticize and vilify Arya at any occasion and Sansa unfortunately picked this habit too. Every time Sansa allows herself to act freely and willfully she disapproves herself and thinks that she has been as wicked as Arya. Sansa`s thinking that the incident at the Trident is all Arya's fault is direct consequence of having a mentor who is constantly saying that everything is Arya`s fault.

Quote

Jory, Alyn, and Harwin rode for Winterfell and the north. “Jory looks a beggar among these others,” Septa Mordane sniffed when he appeared. Sansa could only agree. Jory’s armor was blue-grey plate without device or ornament, and a thin grey cloak hung from his shoulders like a soiled rag.

Sansa is often accused of being shallow and concentrating too much on the appearance, just look what king of example her septa is giving her.

As i mentioned before Septa was regularly oppressing Sansa`s personality she wanted her to be a brainless bird repeating pretty sentences.

Quote

And then Father had refused him! It had upset her more than she could tell. She had said as much to Septa Mordane as they descended the stairs from the gallery, but the septa had only told her it was not her place to question her lord father’s decisions.

Quote

Septa Mordane had been very upset to realize that Lord Baelish had overheard them. “The girl was just talking, my lord,” she’d said. “Foolish chatter. She meant nothing by the comment.”

Quote

“Septa, will Lord Beric spike Ser Gregor’s head on his own gate or bring it back here for the king?” She and Jeyne Poole had been arguing over that last night.
The septa was horror-struck. “A lady does not discuss such things over her porridge. Where are your courtesies, Sansa? I swear, of late you’ve been near as bad as your sister.

Quote

Sansa looked up from her food. “If she can have a dancing lesson, why won’t you let me say farewell to Prince Joffrey?”
“I would gladly go with her, Lord Eddard,” Septa Mordane offered. “There would be no question of her missing the ship.”
“It would not be wise for you to go to Joffrey right now, Sansa. I’m sorry.”
Sansa’s eyes filled with tears. “But why?”
“Sansa, your lord father knows best,” Septa Mordane said. “You are not to question his decisions.”

In my opinion it is way too many times when Sansa is told to shut up. This continuous repression of Sansa's questions and opinions installed in her an alarming lack of self confidence. She thinks she is stupid and she doesn't trust her opinions even when she comes to the right conclusions.

My next idea is a bit of speculation about the deep meaning of Moradne`s central teaching "Courtesy is a Lady`s armor"

There is a side of it which is troubling me. An armor is used for protection against attacks, septa is suggesting that Sansa should use courtesy against the aggressors. It is somehow wrong, it is dening Sansa`s right to stand up for herself. Courtesy is not always the right answer. Sansa wasn`t ready to stand up for herself when Joffrey was rude with her after the fight with Arya.

And at last the most disturbing bit..

Quote

Look at him, Sansa told herself, look at your husband, at all of him, Septa Mordane said all men are beautiful, find his beauty, try.

How did Sansa come to the idea that septa Mordane would want her to endure rape with a horrible monster? She was trying to subdue herself to the violence because of septa mordane, seriously? I don't think septa wanted this but it is a clear indication of what kind of harmful ideas she put in Sansa`s head.

Edited by AliceRose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sansa is an idealist.  She also has a tendency to see the world through rose-colored glasses and/or perceive things inaccurately.  The latter is clearly a flaw.  The former is not.  Let us put it this way:  Sansa was wrong to perceive Joffrey as a True Knight.  She was not, however, wrong to think Joffrey OUGHT to have been a True Knight.

The above is my own opinion.  I'm less sure of the author's opinion.  When I first read AGOT, I did not hate Sansa.  But I did think that GRRM wanted me to hate her.  Now, I'm not so sure.

Septa Mordane is intended to be a prim and prissy type.  It can hardly be assumed that she speaks in the author's voice all the time.  However, she is not a monster.  It is totally unfair to suggest she is pro-rape.  When she advised Sansa that all men are beautiful, she was not advising Sansa to let ugly men rape her.  Rather she is asserting the universal value and dignity of human life (and yes, that includes people who look like "beggars").  "All men" in this context, means "all humans".   When she advised Sansa that "Courtesy is a lady's armor", she was not advising her to let men rape her.  She was giving her strategic advise on how to protect herself.  Sansa employs the strategy, and, as a direct result, avoids getting raped by Tyrion, who had it fully within his power to rape her if he chose.  I suppose the OP is probably right to suppose that Tyrion does not really DESERVE Sansa's courtesy; but that rather misses the point.

I think it funny that the OP demonizes the poor beheaded Septa for telling Sansa to obey her father, particularly in the context where the advice is uttered.  Surely this is one situation where Sansa ought to have listened to the Septa.  If Mordane is condemned for this, then surely she cannot win.  What would we say had the Septa encouraged Sansa to disobey Eddard?  But Sansa is an idealist.  She believes in loyalty to her father, but is also loyal to a set of higher ideals, which she (falsely) imagines are embodied in Joffrey.  Hence, she is prepared to disobey her father when these duties (as she sees it) come into conflict.  From whence come these "higher ideals" that give young girls license to disobey powerful men?  Ultimately, they come, at least in part, from the Faith of the Seven; from the ideal of the True Knight, which says that might does not make right. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AliceRose said:

The second part of my post is about a more damaging influence in Sansa`s upbringing. Almost everything that Septa Mordane taught to Sansa was questionable from a modern reader point of view.

The majority of all the kid's education is questionable from a modern reader point of view. Ned bringing 8 year Bran to watch him chop off a man's head is questionable to us, but the Stark's children's education is perfectly in line with how nobles were educated in the middle ages. Sansa's parents or Septa is not the issue, their society is. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of the viewpoint characters (Daenerys, Tyrion, Theon, Jon Snow, Bran, Arya, and Sansa) are all masterfully written.  People such as myself dislike Sansa but it is not because, speaking for myself, of a lack of understanding.  I understand Sansa very well.  I just do not care for her.  George RR Martin wrote these characters with a lot of depth and they will not appeal to the same people.  I am educated enough in literature to know when a character is well-written but that does not mean that I will like that character.  I don't like Sansa, Jon Snow, Theon, and Arya.  Though I know they are well-written.  Sometimes I just do not care about their stories or I do not care about the character.  

Now about Sansa's education.  Well, aren't most people a product of their nurturing?  Do we excuse an asshole because of their upbringing?  The truth is, Sansa does not have much of an excuse for being such a self-centered, selfish person.  There are people who grew up hard and yet they find it in them to risk helping other people.  

Edited by Silver Bullet 1985

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Platypus Rex and Bernie Max make excellent points.

The "examples of bad education" you brought up are examples of good teaching, if you ask me.

  • It was not in Sansa's place to question her father. He is the Hand of the King, and she is an eleven year old. Moreover, it was terribly inappropriate to do so loudly and in a place where anyone could hear her.
  • It was foolish chatter. Sansa was criticizing his father for not favoring young good-looking men. A member of the small council had overheard it. Doubly foolish.
  • A lady does not discuss about severed heads at dinner. It's not a polite thing to do, even by our standards.
  • Her father knew best, and she was not to question her decisions. If she had listened to septa Mordane's good advice, she may have saved herself (and Arya) a lot of trouble and pain.
  • Courtesy is a lady's armor. It has worked for Sansa multiple times. Trying to appear lovely and innocent saved her multiple times. She has avoided rape from Joffrey, Tyrion, Marillion.
  • All men are beautiful. This is a great, nice, goodhearted lesson to teach. It intends to transmit that people should not be judged by their looks. How this can be disconstructed and presented as an apology of rape, is beyond me.
Edited by The hairy bear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Telling a child to behave wouldn't be a problem for me, I disagree with the way it is done most of the time with Sansa.

Quote

“Will we be permitted to go, Father?”
“You know my feelings, Sansa. It seems I must arrange Robert’s games and pretend to be honored for his sake. That does not mean I must subject my daughters to this folly.”

She is the only Stark kid who is expected to accept everything, to do what she's told without hesitation, not to make questions and no explanation is ever due to her. There long confidential dialogs with Arya and Bran, parents speak with them, listen to them ,value them. That is not case for Sansa. Ned and Cat didn't just order to Bran to stop climbing, they spoke with him tried to explain, to demonstrate the dangers. Ned didn't just order Arya to behave in king's landing, he listened to her worries, calmed her and shared with her his concerns.

There is a disturbing lack of healthy communication between Sansa and the rest of the family. Sansa is a passionate, diligent and smart student. She is intelligent enough to understand complex matters, the problem is that no one ever cared to explane her anything valubale.
She is old enough to abbandon her fantasies about the heroes and monsters, the adlts around her should dedicate some time to explain her how this world works. She is left alone with her douts and her fantasies and it is forbidden to her to inquire.

She is treated as an object without will and without feelings, Sansa has been weeping three days before the planned departure from King's Landing she was refusing to eat and begging for an explanation. Ned didn`t care, he was letting her cry in disper for days. Telling Sansa the same thing he has told to Arya "We are surrounded by enemies" would have been enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has been noted, Sansa got the best education there is. The sad thing is, as @The hairy bear said, she was only 11 and therefore, her education was not over. Which goes hand in hand with what Martin intended - to create a cross generational saga and make this children into adults that will change the world. Simply put, we are experiencing her education as we read all these books.

I always recommend people to closely read Jon's and Ned's chapters more carefully when they read or focus on Sansa's AGOT chapters. By doing so, you will see that she is not that separated from her family and that she suffers from the same idealistic view that has harmed Ned and Jon in the first book. Just look at how Ned dealt with Robert. Is it any different from how Sansa chose to remain blind on troublesome Joffrey's behavior? We speak that she is entitled and bratty, but read those chapters at the Wall where Jon literally thinks he is better than the rest of them. Even Arya and Bran share occasional entitled behavior with her. These are the children of one of the most important Lords in Seven Kingdoms. It is almost expected of them to feel at least a bit entitled.

I would say that Ned's failure with Sansa was the fact that he didn't monitor her more closely. The moment she lied about Trident incident, he should have understood in what position he has put his daughter and try to talk with her. He knew she lied, as we know she told the truth to him. But Ned had more worries and Sansa continued to delude herself to the point where it cost them dearly. Ned is not to be blame for what Sansa had chosen to do, that can't be emphasized enough, but he simply neglected to understand how much in love she is and to make sure she understands who Joffrey really is (Honestly, the mere idea of him not liking Joffrey and continuing with engagement is questionable at least). But all of that worked as a sort of alienation of Sansa that has happened in the first book. She was to remain alone, lone she-wolf, without any support or loved ones, so one day, hopefully, she can find her way back to her home. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, AliceRose said:

She is the only Stark kid who is expected to accept everything, to do what she's told without hesitation, not to make questions and no explanation is ever due to her.

I like most of your points and agree pretty much about the odious Septa Mordane, who I think should never have been responsible for educating children. Although I blame "the system" more than I blame any individuals within it, like the septa and Sansa's parents.

But to go into a bit more depth on the quoted portion above, all the Stark kids (including Jon) were expected to accept everything and do what they're told. Sansa was the only one who did that fully. The other kids needed that obedience reinforced; Arya pushed back constantly and Bran flat-out disobeyed. Sansa was the only one who wasn't usually disciplined by the authority figures for disobedience. Instead, she was praised to the skies and contrasted approvingly with her younger sister (for which I do blame Septa Mordane). But that doesn't mean that she was the only one from whom obedience was expected.

 

2 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

She also has a tendency to see the world through rose-colored glasses and/or perceive things inaccurately.

Exactly. That's the expected outcome (and fault) of a system of upbringing that requires unquestioning obedience to authority.  Sansa almost never pushed against the boundaries, therefore, she had no plausible idea of the limitations of the world and the things she couldn't get away with.

She's had a much steeper learning curve than Arya or even Bran.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Exactly. That's the expected outcome (and fault) of a system of upbringing that requires unquestioning obedience to authority.  

"Unquestioning obedience to authority", is not what her idealism teaches.   Nor is it how she behaves.

The inaccuracy of Sansa's perceptions and memories seems to be a personality quirk.  Nothing to do with her education, per se.  It is I think part of a setup for things to come.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AliceRose said:

Telling a child to behave wouldn't be a problem for me, I disagree with the way it is done most of the time with Sansa.

She is the only Stark kid who is expected to accept everything, to do what she's told without hesitation, not to make questions and no explanation is ever due to her. There long confidential dialogs with Arya and Bran, parents speak with them, listen to them ,value them. That is not case for Sansa. Ned and Cat didn't just order to Bran to stop climbing, they spoke with him tried to explain, to demonstrate the dangers. Ned didn't just order Arya to behave in king's landing, he listened to her worries, calmed her and shared with her his concerns.

There is a disturbing lack of healthy communication between Sansa and the rest of the family. Sansa is a passionate, diligent and smart student. She is intelligent enough to understand complex matters, the problem is that no one ever cared to explane her anything valubale.
She is old enough to abbandon her fantasies about the heroes and monsters, the adlts around her should dedicate some time to explain her how this world works. She is left alone with her douts and her fantasies and it is forbidden to her to inquire.

She is treated as an object without will and without feelings, Sansa has been weeping three days before the planned departure from King's Landing she was refusing to eat and begging for an explanation. Ned didn`t care, he was letting her cry in disper for days. Telling Sansa the same thing he has told to Arya "We are surrounded by enemies" would have been enough.

I agree with about everything that you mentioned. I used to not like Sansa at all during my first read of A Game of Thrones because I thought she was just dumb, snobby and too shallow. But, as I went through my second and third reread of AGOT and ACOK, I realized that Eddard or Catelyn did not have any sort of meaningful conversations with Sansa as they had with the rest of the Stark children. Sansa was too out of the loop with everything that was going on in the first book.I do not blame Sansa at all for any of her actions, I blame her parents for not telling her important information when they were telling her younger siblings this information! 

And, also she was eleven. ELEVEN!! Sansa haters seem to forget that an 11 year old girl is still EXTREMELY young and obviously will see the world through more of an innocent and naive lens, especially if they grew up in a very wealthy noble family. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, QueenNymeriaoftheRhoynar said:

I agree with about everything that you mentioned. I used to not like Sansa at all during my first read of A Game of Thrones because I thought she was just dumb, snobby and too shallow. But, as I went through my second and third reread of AGOT and ACOK, I realized that Eddard or Catelyn did not have any sort of meaningful conversations with Sansa as they had with the rest of the Stark children. Sansa was too out of the loop with everything that was going on in the first book.I do not blame Sansa at all for any of her actions, I blame her parents for not telling her important information when they were telling her younger siblings this information! 

And, also she was eleven. ELEVEN!! Sansa haters seem to forget that an 11 year old girl is still EXTREMELY young and obviously will see the world through more of an innocent and naive lens, especially if they grew up in a very wealthy noble family. 

Yeah she was probably one of my least favorite characters through the first two books. Now I'd say she's my second favorite. 

I can't really relate to a vapid, selfish 11 year old, but you can really see her transform in the last books, especially when she's thinking about how she has to handle SR with respect to her own safety versus his.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

"Unquestioning obedience to authority", is not what her idealism teaches.   Nor is it how she behaves.

The inaccuracy of Sansa's perceptions and memories seems to be a personality quirk.  Nothing to do with her education, per se.  It is I think part of a setup for things to come.

 

Well, I wasn't talking about her idealism nor about her perceptions and memories. I was talking about her absolute investment in a hierarchical social structure and her rigid attitudes about what constitutes "proper" behavior.

Sansa was constantly being praised as the "good girl" because of her obedience to authority. So, yeah, that was how she behaved. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Well, I wasn't talking about her idealism nor about her perceptions and memories. I was talking about her absolute investment in a hierarchical social structure and her rigid attitudes about what constitutes "proper" behavior.

Sansa was constantly being praised as the "good girl" because of her obedience to authority. So, yeah, that was how she behaved. 

Except that's not true, if it was she would never have gone against her father's wishes in a bid to remain in the capital. She rebelled against her 'education' and paid dearly for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Well, I wasn't talking about her idealism nor about her perceptions and memories. 

I had the impression you were referring to my comment, since you quoted it.  My mistake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Except that's not true, if it was she would never have gone against her father's wishes in a bid to remain in the capital. She rebelled against her 'education' and paid dearly for it.

Exactly.  I don't see how one can resent a rebellious child merely because she is sometimes praised for obedience.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×