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Lord Varys

[SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

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Anything about the reign of the great couple and their children can be discussed here. Although some of them might deserve their own threads - I'm looking at you Vaegon. And Saera. And Daella. And Alyssa. And (hopefully really) first Daenerys.

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10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Anything about the reign of the great couple and their children can be discussed here. Although some of them might deserve their own threads - I'm looking at you Vaegon. And Saera. And Daella. And Alyssa. And (hopefully really) first Daenerys.

Was the Daenerys section a good addition and change from the Og first Daenerys married to Maron?

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The first Daenerys is a great addition. She has a very tragic story, and there are certain subtle hints that make her very reminiscent of our Daenerys (she is smart and kind and a prototypical Targaryen unlike some of her siblings), considering she stands at the center of attention both her younger brothers, Aemon and Baelon, who vie for her attention. That is another allusion to 'the three dragon heads' that are channeled in one of the Aegon chapters.

And we all do agree (or at least should agree ;-)) that Dany stands at the center of the three dragon heads in the main series, too.

And for all who still challenge the gospel: Princess Alyssa Targaryen has mis-matched eyes. One purple, one green. She breaks her nose, and she likes sex as much as Tyrion. Shiera is subtle, the tourney of 272 AC is less subtle, but this is no longer subtlety. This a hammer on the head.

And who knows, perhaps some green-eyed singer from Lannisport was Aenys' father, after all ;-)?

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25 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

And who knows, perhaps some green-eyed singer from Lannisport was Aenys' father, after all ;-)?

Very interesting and not the blood i expected going into the family! Can't wait to read it all!

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1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Very interesting and not the blood i expected going into the family! Can't wait to read it all!

That is just a weirdo idea of mine, though. Nothing we should make gospel or conspiracy theories, right ;-)?

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That is just a weirdo idea of mine, though. Nothing we should make gospel or conspiracy theories, right ;-)?

Awe shucks, i love wild speculation ;) 

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Poor Aerea just wanted to spend her life with the horses.  But what on earth happened to her, even now we know more about what happened to her there is still so much mystery.  She rode Balerion, but what awful circumstances.

Rogar didn't seem to see which side his bread was buttered.  Alyssa, what a life she had and went through so much.  Looks like in the end she was just exhausted by it all.  But she got her son on the throne and did secure the dynasty so even if the road was very tough she did succeed.

Edited by naseridrl

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2 hours ago, Moondancer said:

Ooooh, Dany's dragons come from Dreamfyre, don't they :drool:

Not necessarily. The three eggs from the clutch Dreamfyre laid on Fair Isle all hatched after Rhaena came to Dragonstone. Elissa took some of the many eggs from there - chances are good they are Dreamfyre's eggs, but they could also be from Vhagar or some of the many other unnamed dragons that lived and thrived on the island in those days.

1 hour ago, Blooddragon said:

What happened to Rhaella?

She becomes a Septa and returns to KL for a grand party late in the 50s and then disappears from the story. That is, if she wasn't Aerea. There are hints that the twins were switched during Jaehaerys' coronation in Oldtown due to them greatly differing in temperament. Originally Aerea was very fearful and shy whereas Rhaella was strong, bold, fierce, and willful. After the coronation Aerea was like Rhaella and Rhaella like Aerea. How odd ;-).

1 hour ago, naseridrl said:

Poor Aerea just wanted to spend her life with the horses.  But what on earth happened to her, even now we know more about what happened to her there is still so much mystery.  She rode Balerion, but what awful circumstances.

I think we should wait a little bit more until we discuss that. That is huge - at least as a great Lovecraftian episode in that book.

1 hour ago, naseridrl said:

Rogar didn't seem to see which side his bread was buttered.  Alyssa, what a life she had and went through so much.  Looks like in the end she was just exhausted by it all.  But she got her son on the throne and did secure the dynasty so even if the road was very tough she did succeed.

Rogar is Stannis and Robert and Lyonel combined. But Alyssa is the actual strong one, Rogar is thought to be the strong one because of that manly shit, but the man shows what kind of a windbag he was when Rhaena tells him what to do. Alyssa breaks into tears because her husband just showed her that he never really loved her - while she did -, and did everything (or at least a huge chunk of it) just to aggrandize himself - all for power and fame and what not (and like Stannis he doesn't seem to be honest enough to admit that he wants the power that comes with (controlling the) Iron Throne) - that he doesn't have her children's best interest at heart. And when she puts him into his place he really looks like the fool he is. That is priceless.

And what he later wants out of this marriage is also pretty clear.

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 @Lord Varys Don't be a party crasher!:D

 

 
Quote

And when it became known that Dreamfyre had produced a clutch of dragon eggs, a begging brother from the inland hills began to preach that Fair Isle would soon be overrun by dragons “devouring sheep and cows and men alike,” unless a dragonslayer came forth to put an end to the scourge. Lord Farman sent forth knights to seize the man and silence him, but not before thousands had heard his prophecies.  (...) Lord Lyman himself began to express an unseemly interest in the three dragon eggs that the queen had brought from Fair Isle, wondering how and when they might be expected to hatch.

 

- bolded by me 

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

She becomes a Septa and returns to KL for a grand party late in the 50s and then disappears from the story. That is, if she wasn't Aerea. There are hints that the twins were switched during Jaehaerys' coronation in Oldtown due to them greatly differing in temperament. Originally Aerea was very fearful and shy whereas Rhaella was strong, bold, fierce, and willful. After the coronation Aerea was like Rhaella and Rhaella like Aerea. How odd ;-).

The thing that threw me was the Aerea and Lady Elissa stuff.  I could see that being either of them.  Aerea maybe finally found someone she felt comfortable and safe around and didn't want to lose her or it was Rhaella and she wanted adventure.  I like the idea of no one really knowing which was which whatever happened they may have been switched multiple times and no one was any the wiser.

Whoever it was the one who was dubbed Aerea's end sounds incredible especially with the added in re-appearance from Balerian.  The one dubbed Rhaella seems to have had a somewhat happier and simpler life.  Rhaena too seemed to find some happiness but even she seemed to have ended her days exhausted from it all.  No one caught up in the Aenys-Maegor mess seems to have come out of it unscathed all were marked by it one way or another and the ghost of it followed them all.

Edited by naseridrl

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@Moondancer

We learn later still that all the eggs Rhaena brought from Fair Isle hatched on Dragonstone. We also learn stuff about dragon eggs that means I was DEAD WRONG in some of the nonsense I speculated about earlier, since we learn that dragon eggs really like to hatch - and mostly always hatch - around warm/hot places like Dragonstone, and that they only turn to stone if they are away too long from such warm places.

In that sense 'age' turns dragon eggs only to stone if they are away from place like Dragonstone.

10 minutes ago, naseridrl said:

The thing that threw me was the Aerea and Lady Elissa stuff.  I could see that being either of them.  Aerea maybe finally found someone she felt comfortable and safe around and didn't want to lose her or it was Rhaella and she wanted adventure. 

Whoever it was the one who was dubbed Aerea's end sounds incredible especially with the added in re-appearance from Balerian.  The one dubbed Rhaella seems to have had a somewhat happier and simpler life.  Rhaena too seemed to find some happiness but even she seemed to have ended her days exhausted from it all.  No one caught up in the Aenys-Maegor mess seems to have come out of it unscathed all were marked by it one way or another and the ghost of it followed them all.

Oh, they are all marked by what they lived through. Rhaena, her girls, etc. There is a reason why Rhaena fails to bond with her daughter, there is a reason why Elissa and Rhaena can't work things out, there is even a reason why Androw does what he does.

Rhaena is pretty good understanding the problems and emotional states of others - but, likely due to what she lived through, what she regrets, what happened to her - she has trouble with her closest family members.

If Fair Isle had worked out, she would have been happy. When she lost that, she could bear go back and live at Jaehaerys I's court - her baby brother. And she couldn't explain her daughter why that was, nor is it likely Aerea would have understood that. That would have been an adult's problem, a complex thing about pride and sense a self-worth, etc. How much Rhaena loved both Elissa and especially Aerea is evident in what she later does. The woman nearly kills herself searching for her girl.

I say this whole story - Rhaena's story - is the best story in the entire book. George really took his time to make this one of his doomed and tragic love triangles (or quadrangles) of his earlier works. And Rhaena is the best character as such. Others may get more screen time and do more, but she is the one who comes alive the most.

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2 minutes ago, Mrs.Grumpy said:

What happened to Aerea guys? You all speak so ominiously lol

She died.

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25 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I say this whole story - Rhaena's story - is the best story in the entire book. George really took his time to make this one of his doomed and tragic love triangles (or quadrangles) of his earlier works. And Rhaena is the best character as such. Others may get more screen time and do more, but she is the one who comes alive the most.

Yeah, she really get her due.  It's complex, its nuanced.  It would have been easy to just say she was the jealous older sister, but she suffered so much for her family and in the end doesn't end up with what she was raised for and has to find a new place in the world that isn't quite what she was raised for and watch as her much younger sister and brother lead the life she was destined for.  She also gets fleeting moments of happiness and it just keeps not working out, but she keeps dusting herself off and trying.  As a consequence she feels very real and human.

I do sort of wish Rogar had tried to remarry and Rhaena had come and burnt his sorry ass to a crisp.  But he was probably too scared.  His kids seem to have turned out better than him though so something of Alyssa lived on through them and in turn something of Rhaena.

Edited by naseridrl

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Seems we also have another woman on the small council in spirit to go along with Elaena.  Seems the young Martyn Tyrell's wife Florence Fossaway was the real Master of Coin.  Shame none of these kings has the guts to give these women the job in their own name instead of their husbands. 

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18 hours ago, Mrs.Grumpy said:

Oh my god... What happened to Aerea was horrifying! What the heck?!! 

That was a grim story,  A fine piece of horror writing.  I doubt if Septon Barth was a man who got frightened easily, which adds to the horror of the story.

 

20 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

@Moondancer

 

Oh, they are all marked by what they lived through. Rhaena, her girls, etc. There is a reason why Rhaena fails to bond with her daughter, there is a reason why Elissa and Rhaena can't work things out, there is even a reason why Androw does what he does.

Rhaena is pretty good understanding the problems and emotional states of others - but, likely due to what she lived through, what she regrets, what happened to her - she has trouble with her closest family members.

If Fair Isle had worked out, she would have been happy. When she lost that, she could bear go back and live at Jaehaerys I's court - her baby brother. And she couldn't explain her daughter why that was, nor is it likely Aerea would have understood that. That would have been an adult's problem, a complex thing about pride and sense a self-worth, etc. How much Rhaena loved both Elissa and especially Aerea is evident in what she later does. The woman nearly kills herself searching for her girl.

I say this whole story - Rhaena's story - is the best story in the entire book. George really took his time to make this one of his doomed and tragic love triangles (or quadrangles) of his earlier works. And Rhaena is the best character as such. Others may get more screen time and do more, but she is the one who comes alive the most.

I haven't finished the story of Jaehaerys and Alysanne, but there doesn't seem to be a happy ending for any of the main protagonists.

Edited by SeanF

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I think Rhaegal is Vermithor's son and more likely than not, Drogon is Balerion's son or grandson.

Rhaegal was made of the green of summer and the bronze of fall. They soared above the ships in wide circles, higher and higher, each trying to climb above the other.”

- Daenerys I, ASOS

“At her command, one produced an iron key. The door opened, hinges shrieking. Daenerys Targaryen stepped into the hot heart of darkness and stopped at the lip of a deep pit. Forty feet below, her dragons raised their heads. Four eyes burned through the shadows—two of molten gold and two of bronze.

- Daenerys II, ADWD

Vermithor was feasting on the flesh, tearing loose great chunks of meat with each bite, but when the king approached with Lord Rogar, the dragon raised his head and gazed at them with eyes like pools of molten bronze.

- Fire and Blood

 

Edited by MoIaF

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