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Canadian Politics: Revenge of the small minds


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43 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Also apparently "Justin Trudeau is the illegitimate son of Fidel Castro" is a thing people actually believe. Just, what the fuck?

Not 'people' but Ezra Levant so...

https://www.vice.com/en_asia/article/jmk95b/we-investigated-those-damning-rumors-about-fidel-castro-being-justin-trudeaus-real-dad

Trudeau was a hail Mary based on glory years ghosts to bring Canada out of the Harper years. He should have been a placeholder who looked pretty abd didn't fuck up too much while the party really prepared someone more well, prepared (and hopefully as attractive :wink: ) Instead Captain Feminist fucked things with the pipelines, dragged his heels on murdered indigenous women, failed to shed his cosplay roots in India, and succeeded in..legalizing pot. I give him that. The country really isn't any worse off during his time behind the desk but because he's spent more of his life being a dudebro than not, coupled with everything going on in the world, the country is going to get worse regardless of who wins the election. Should the Liberals win it'll be a minority and ugh... 

There has got to be a sound policy-minded, well-spoken, and charismatic member of the Liberals out there who also has a killer sock collection and better choices in Halloween costumes. Come on.

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21 hours ago, Aemon Stark said:

As near as I can tell, they're appealing the ruling. Insofar as who "they" are, it's the current government/cabinet. We do not have "caretaker" governments as only Parliament is dissolved during an election - the government carries on.

I think they're referring more to the caretaker convention. And I still disagree with the course the Liberals took. It doesn't just look bad, it is bad.

 

16 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

Also apparently "Justin Trudeau is the illegitimate son of Fidel Castro" is a thing people actually believe. Just, what the fuck?

The Castro thing is weird. On the one hand, slut shaming Margaret hasn't gone away so that's horrible, yet on the other ...when you actually look at younger Castro compared to Justin, the resemblances are more than a little striking. Fuel to the fire I guess. 

 

15 hours ago, kairparavel said:

Not 'people' but Ezra Levant so...

https://www.vice.com/en_asia/article/jmk95b/we-investigated-those-damning-rumors-about-fidel-castro-being-justin-trudeaus-real-dad

Trudeau was a hail Mary based on glory years ghosts to bring Canada out of the Harper years. He should have been a placeholder who looked pretty abd didn't fuck up too much while the party really prepared someone more well, prepared (and hopefully as attractive :wink: ) Instead Captain Feminist fucked things with the pipelines, dragged his heels on murdered indigenous women, failed to shed his cosplay roots in India, and succeeded in..legalizing pot. I give him that. The country really isn't any worse off during his time behind the desk but because he's spent more of his life being a dudebro than not, coupled with everything going on in the world, the country is going to get worse regardless of who wins the election. Should the Liberals win it'll be a minority and ugh... 

There has got to be a sound policy-minded, well-spoken, and charismatic member of the Liberals out there who also has a killer sock collection and better choices in Halloween costumes. Come on.

Personally, and I think I've said this before, Trudeau has far exceeded my expectations. His government got rated somewhat recently as having fulfilled something like 92% of its promises from the election lead up, and the pipeline purchase was a no brainer. Things I'm not satisfied with are the fails on electoral reform [even if the Conservatives and NDP kind of crippled that] and his performance on the Indigenous file-- especially this latest appeal. I called both INAC and the AGs Office and raised holy high hell. Such a piece of shit move. And that was the clincher for me. I want Trudeau to resign after the election, and while I'm not sure if party establishment would be good with it, I'm totally down with Chrystia Freeland taking over honestly. She's pretty incredible, imo.

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It'll be interesting to see how the election plays out. The Liberals are actually pretty close to a majority judging by seat projections, but polling is polling. I can't imagine a Liberal minority would survive long, but hopefully long enough to see Scheer ousted as Conservative leader. Kenney will probably be runner up in that case, but he's tied to an election fraud investigation in AB that might throw a wrench in that. In the meantime, the Liberals [if propped up by the NDP] could horse trade a stamp on the pipeline in lieu of electoral reform we might be in good shape to end some of this recurring bullshit provided it's not cocked up by a rush.   

 

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I agree with that, by and large I'm happy with the Liberals, another thing I've read is that the liberal environmental policy is far and away the best of the parties. Not as ambitious as the greens, but much more practical. About as ambitious as the NDP, but again more practical. I'll see if I can find the article. ETA: Here it is.

So with that in mind I'm not entirely in favour of Trudeau resigning after the election. I'm willing to give him a chance to fix his mistakes. Of course if he does not jump on election reform and indigenous issue then yeah, boot his ass.

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Yeah, read that. Singh has grown on me as much as May needs to be filed off, but both of their climate platforms [quite a few of their planks actually] are a hot mess of impractical wish fulfillment without any thought out policy that backs up the hows.

Leach is a smart cookie, I've learned a lot following him on twitter the last couple years.

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I won't be happy, but I won't be heartbroken if Trudeau doesn't resign either, I guess. There needs to be some grounded discussions on electoral reform though; how it would look and how it would be practicably different than what we currently have. I'm relatively convinced a ranked ballot system isn't the answer, but I don't see a lot of alternative ideas being floated by the parties. 

re: the Indigenous file, Canada needs to see a marked improvement across the board. Yeah, the Liberals have lifted 90% or thereabouts of the water restrictions, but that's not a laurel they can rest on. Our Federal and Provincial governments have been underfunding Indig communities since forever and a day, we don't provide equal access to health services or education, and insofar as incarceration rates and justice in general [MMWIG, for instance] we've failed them pretty much completely. That sounds paternalistic perhaps [I hope not?] but these are Canada's responsibilities at the very least. Where that relationship goes in the future, I don't know. I kind of like the idea of a landback/self determination true partnership, but really don't know how possible that is, ie: Canada's willingness. 

I just don't get the feel the Liberals are dealing in good faith, at least judging by the lack of performance on the file over the last 4 years. 

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I keep hearing how disappointed people are in the Liberals on the indigenous file, but then I hear those same people say ‘but they have done more in 4 years than has been done in a 100’. They just can’t win.

Canada has treated native people terribly since forever, and you can’t expect 150 years of problems being solved in 4 years.

I also have heard the Liberals passed 14 out of 15 promised pieces of legislation, and then the critics say the legislation wasn’t good enough.

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28 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I keep hearing how disappointed people are in the Liberals on the indigenous file, but then I hear those same people say ‘but they have done more in 4 years than has been done in a 100’. They just can’t win.

I'm not one of those.

 

A 'win' isn't that hard.

i. Quit fighting the Indigenous in court on things like childcare, family services, etc 

ii. Work on a staggered opt-out withdrawal from the Indian Act for those Nations/Tribes that want to, with the eventual goal being all 

iii. Adopt UNDRIP and MMIWG action plans

iv. Enact civilian oversight over the RCMP and police services

 

None of this is beyond the pale. Achievable goals that would bring Indigenous communities a lot closer to parity with general Canadians. But Trudeau couldn't/wouldn't start discussing policy after MMWIG, ffs. Didn't even address the Nation, just a tepid acceptance and radio silence since.  

  

 

 

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So take this with a grain of salt, but amongst the small portion of First Nation communities I'm connected to there seems to be a feeling of, that for the first time in Canadian history indigenous issue actually have a real shot of being dealt with seriously and fairly. Which is where, at least among the First Nation's, the "the Liberal government has done more for indigenous people than anything else, but fuck you it's not enough" thing is coming from. For the first time in a lot of these people's lifetimes there is a feeling they don't have to just accept Canada's table scraps. Which means more than anybody else has done, won't be acceptable. Because what's been done in the past has been next to nothing. It also means that, should whoever forms the next government not just not continue what has been done, but also fail expand it significantly, there could be serious negative backlash among First Nation communities.

A little bit of hope can be a dangerous thing.

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God that debate was a cluster fuck. The moderators sucked, and the leaders kept talking over each other. The weirdest thing was the several areas where people could have hammered each other on specific things (IE the reason the Liberals bought the pipeline being because of Harper) but just didn't. What the fuck was that? And please for fuck sake can we stop pretending the Conservatives and Liberals are comparable?

... Guess this shit puts to bed the rumour that the moderators were biased for the Liberals. If they are they sure did a shit job.

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Barton and Raj have been suspect [to me] for a while, but yeah, the debate was silly. Maxime and Blanchet shouldn't have been there.

What do you mean about Trudeau having bought the pipeline because of Harper? Are you're referring to the FIPA between China and Canada?

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45 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Barton and Raj have been suspect [to me] for a while, but yeah, the debate was silly. Maxime and Blanchet shouldn't have been there.

What do you mean about Trudeau having bought the pipeline because of Harper? Are you're referring to the FIPA between China and Canada?

I don't know what TM meant, but I think part of the reason why the federal government bought the pipeline was because of the poisoned atmosphere created by Harper. Harper tried to short-change hearings, a tactic that got appealled to the SCC. Harper, of course, got into his infamous fight with the Chief Justice, something I think had a direct impact on the court coming down hard on the topic of pipeline hearings and how they have to be conducted.

Buying the pipeline managed to alienate a lot of people on both sides. The Conservatives insist Trudeau bought the pipeline to stop it, which is utterly ridiculous because the company had already gotten totally fed-up with all the delays it faced. And Liberals got angry because they belive the government bought the pipeline in order to ensure it's completion. It's not often you see such diametrically opposite conclusions being drawn.

I am not crazy about expanding the pipeline to the west coast, but the Americans have been ripping off Canadians on the price of oil for decades. We supply them with more than 20% of their oil and yet we are constantly attacked by various Americans for doing so. Hell, divert that 20% to the Asia, and see how they enjoy the price of their cheap gasoline go up.

Going a relatively short distance west is a helluva a lot better than going 4,000 km east. Sheer says he'll create a pipeline corridor across the country to make sure Alberta oil gets exported. Think of the constitutional crisis we'll have as he tries to force a pipeline across Quebec. Either that or he'll just back down because he can't do it, but the rift he'll open up between two sections of the country will make what's going on in the US look funny. 

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1 hour ago, JEORDHl said:

Barton and Raj have been suspect [to me] for a while, but yeah, the debate was silly. Maxime and Blanchet shouldn't have been there.

What do you mean about Trudeau having bought the pipeline because of Harper? Are you're referring to the FIPA between China and Canada?

Yeah, pretty much. Whole thing makes it extremely difficult to kill stuff like the pipeline without serious costs.

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Fragile Bird:

 

Full transparency: oil is how I retired at 45. Our family has mineral rights to a 20 year SAGD, cogeneration project in Saskatchewan, so, when I said the pipeline purchase was a no brainer I can't claim I'm unbiased.

Trudeau had a tough call to make there, but the decision to do so seemed more political than otherwise. Since the 2014 price crash, Alberta was [and remains] hurting, ergo ripe ground for Kenney to weaponize re: western alienation, etc etc. Buying the pipeline put a bit of a damper on all that, so to counter Trudeau had to promise to use take any/all value added from the completed pairing and put it into green initiatives. Something a lot of strident environmentalists in Canada don't seem to factor into their counter arguments however, is that unless WCS bottoms out and remains there, whether it's by rail, truck, or pipeline, companies are going to sell their oil one way or another. Trudeau's approach is a careful middle line walk, imo. It may pay dividends, may not, but it'd be a hard argument to press saying it wasn't done in the best interest of all parties.

There's a bit there for everyone.

 

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Scheer is a fucking idiot. 

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13 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Yeah, pretty much. Whole thing makes it extremely difficult to kill stuff like the pipeline without serious costs.

 

FIPA didn't have anything to do with that though. Those old articles from 2012 resurfaced recently as a way to kind of wash Trudeau's hands of the decision he made, but they're not grounded in fact. The main problems fixated on, ie: dispute and arbitration, are only available to investors with legitimate gripes against legislative impacts on their returns. A Chinese investor, or group of, could ask for a tribunal to be convened to adjudicate a specific case, but they'd be really hard pressed arguing a win for two reasons: 

i. access to tidewater already exists, TMX is about a pairing of said access

ii. Canada and Canadian producers are subject to the same issue, meaning it enjoys no advantage/benefits that Chinese interests do/would not

 

The whole FIPA resurgence fit a narrative and everyone ran with it. That's all. There's no reality based arguments actually supporting it.  

 

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Trudeau really should have come out with a different strategy. He got into it, but not enough to really do damage, and it took a bit away from him. Ultimately it was enough of a cluster fuck all together that he comes out ahead just on the basis of being the incumbent without anyone having done any real damage. But really, he either should have not made any shots at anybody, letting the others on stage do that, and just talk what the liberals are planning on doing, positioning himself as the only adult in the room. Or he should have went full bore. IE when Scheer attempted that dumb ass "you're not a feminist, you fired women" comment. Perfect opportunity to tear into him on conservative not understand wtf feminism is and just using it as a weapon. Same with Scheer bringing up blackface. Easily turned into a point on how Trudeau took responsibility for his action, yet Scheer continues to refuse to do so.

1 minute ago, JEORDHl said:

 

FIPA didn't have anything to do with that though. Those old articles from 2012 resurfaced recently as a way to kind of wash Trudeau's hands of the decision he made, but they're not grounded in reality. The main problems fixated on, ie: dispute and arbitration, are only available to investors with legitimate gripes against the legislative impacts on their returns. A Chinese investor, or group of, could ask for a tribunal to be convened to adjudicate a specific case, but they're be hard pressed to win for two reasons:  

i. access to tidewater already exists, TMX is about a pairing of said access

ii. Canada and Canadian producers are subject to the same issue, meaning it enjoys no advantage/benefits that Chinese interests do/would not

 

The whole FIPA resurgence fit a narrative and everyone ran with it. That's all. There's no reality based arguments actually supporting it.  

 

Really? Huh, my mistake.

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1 minute ago, TrueMetis said:

Really? Huh, my mistake.

No worries. I wasn't being critical of you, mind.

That recent FIPA hullabaoo just checked a lot of exculpatory boxes for people wanting to give Trudeau's decision a political pass. He had no choice! The Chinese made him do it! lol

Confirmation bias, basically. 

 

4 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Trudeau really should have come out with a different strategy. He got into it, but not enough to really do damage, and it took a bit away from him. Ultimately it was enough of a cluster fuck all together that he comes out ahead just on the basis of being the incumbent without anyone having done any real damage. But really, he either should have not made any shots at anybody, letting the others on stage do that, and just talk what the liberals are planning on doing, positioning himself as the only adult in the room. Or he should have went full bore. IE when Scheer attempted that dumb ass "you're not a feminist, you fired women" comment. Perfect opportunity to tear into him on conservative not understand wtf feminism is and just using it as a weapon. Same with Scheer bringing up blackface. Easily turned into a point on how Trudeau took responsibility for his action, yet Scheer continues to refuse to do so.

Yeah. I thought Trudeau did not great, but ok. Being the incumbent he just had to make it through without taking debilitating wounds. He only managed to do so because Scheer is incompetent. Singh tried and missed, May tried and missed, while Bernier, Blanchet [and even May] did a better job taking down Scheer than Trudeau could've without making himself look bad.

My biggest gripe was the format.

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Well, time and opportunity right? On the face of it it makes perfect sense, but all I do is look after my kids, write, draw, and go to the gym-- so when all that FIPA shit started circulating a few weeks ago it didn't pass the smell test for me and I dug into the actual text of the trade agreement then bounced my reservations off some experts I know. Most people don't have the time to upend an entire day to do what I did just because something people were circulating online read as a little too convenient lol    

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Good for you. I hope you're in a riding were your vote will have tangible relevance. I'm in Alberta, and my riding is projected to go 60 to 70% of the vote to the Conservative incumbent. 

I'll vote anyway, but jeez, man. 

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