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lalt

The Ramsey's list and the true goal of the Pink Letter

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4 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

:DYeah, I mean like I said it could very well point to Ramsay as well as Mance.  

I totally goofed. I replied before I had finished reading your post, and then didn’t want to just delete it all. :dunce:

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For me, the PL is like Septa Lemore and her eye color that's never mentioned. The handwriting (Ramsay's) is not mentioned either when Jon and Asha both make note of it in the letter he sends them after the fall of Moat Cailin. Maybe it's a stupid reason to rule Ramsay out, but that's the main reason I rule him out.

Can Mance read and write? I don't think we're ever told. I guess he could have been taught while he was a child with the NW. 

There's a couple other things, unless Stannis did in fact sacrifice Theon, then Ramsay would have found his Reek in his host after it was "smashed". And what makes him (Ramsay) think Jeyne and Theon even made it to the Wall? It's like a month's journey from Winterfell to the Wall and it has been snowing like a mother. 

Personally, I don't think Mance has been caught. If anyone was caught, it will be the spearwives. They were the ones in the greater danger. Last we saw him, I think he was in the great hall after that fight between the Manderlys and Freys that left Wyman bleeding.

If they talked, the only truth in there is in what they said is that Mance is alive. And if they told Ramsay that they were planning on going to Stannis with Jeyne, then that's something Jon doesn't need to know. The letter is lies and blatant provocation. 

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13 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

For me, the PL is like Septa Lemore and her eye color that's never mentioned. The handwriting (Ramsay's) is not mentioned either when Jon and Asha both make note of it in the letter he sends them after the fall of Moat Cailin. Maybe it's a stupid reason to rule Ramsay out, but that's the main reason I rule him out.

For me it’s the opposite... I don’t think Jon would note or think of Ramsay’s hand while reading the letter unless it was different than he expected it to be

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I don't think there is any calculated motive behind the letter at all. It's the Westeros equivalent of an angry, impulsive, egotistical, and somewhat insecure ruler, throwing out a mixture of boasts and insults on twitter or a message board. The wall is far too far away for any of the motivations people regularly argue to make any sense. Furthermore neither Mance, Stannis, nor Ramsay know about Jon's numbers of wildlings at the wall. Jon wouldn't have been able to make the decision he made without these numbers. And Stannis would not know about Mance Rayder (unless he has already taken Winterfell and even then doubtful).

There is a mystery in the Pink Letter. But that is because I believe Stannis has defeated the Freys, faked his death by having Manderlys and Karstarks men return to Winterfell with a fake story backed up by the fake Lightbringer (and maybe Asha if we need a POV). Ramsay believes Stannis is dead with Theon and Jeyne Poole fleeing to the wall. He writes the letter after torturing Mance and the spearwives, prior to leaving the castle intending to hunt down his bride, when in fact he is riding into an ambush from a very much alive Stannis.

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1 hour ago, Tagganaro said:

:DYeah, I mean like I said it could very well point to Ramsay as well as Mance.  

 

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

It’s always interesting to see how different people read something and come to completely different conclusions. And no conclusion is better than the other, of course. But it is very interesting nonetheless. See, to me, the repeated use of “bastard” is one of the strong indicators that the author is indeed Ramsay. Ramsay, who hates being a bastard. Who now, after being made a Bolton, goes into a “black rage” when someone calls him Snow. IMO he wants to offend Jon, to insult him. And people tend to think that others are like them. Ramsay is so rattled by being reminded he is a bastard that in his eyes that’s a great way to push Jon’s buttons. 

ADwD, Reek

If I had a tail, the Bastard would have cut it off. The thought came unbidden, a vile thought, dangerous. His lordship was not a bastard anymore. Bolton, not Snow. The boy king on the Iron Throne had made Lord Ramsay legitimate, giving him the right to use his lord father’s name. Calling him Snow reminded him of his bastardy and sent him into a black rage. Reek must remember that.”

 

ADwD, The Turncloak 

The wounds Snow made, snow conceals, but that was wrong. Ramsay was a Bolton now, not a Snow, never a Snow.”

 

... interesting indeed. I cannot help but think about the first meeting Jon/Mance.

Their relationship starts with the two stories they tell each other. Jon talks about him being a bastard, Mance about his cloak.

Foreshadowing or clue?

I don’t know.

 

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16 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

For me it’s the opposite... I don’t think Jon would note or think of Ramsay’s hand while reading the letter unless it was different than he expected it to be

It's a fair point.

The one description the writer bothered giving us for the PL was of the seal.

And the letter was sealed with a smear of hard pink wax. (Jon XIII, ADWD 69)

And that seal is not the same as the other ones we've been given a description of.

It was tightly rolled and sealed, with a button of hard pink wax. Only the Dreadfort uses pink sealing wax.  (Jon VI, ADWD 28, p. 377)

He thrust the parchment at her as if he could not wait to be rid of it. It was tightly rolled and sealed with a button of hard pink wax. (The Wayward Bride, ADWD 26)

This is what we get word for word from two different characters. Jon's letter doesn't even seem like it's tightly rolled (but that's a different matter altogether) and the seal is different. So he makes note of the seal and it's different from what we've come to expect from Ramsay. Where the issue lies, is that Jon doesn't question why it's different because he sees that it's addressed to "bastard," not Jon Snow or Lord Commander. He sees who it's addressed to, the pink smear, tells Clydas that he was right to come to him, all the while he is thinking that the old man was right to be afraid. His expectation will be that whatever the contents are will be hostile. 

He breaks the letter, flattens it. And this is the other thing that happens, there are no flakes coming off the letter. The letter seems to have been written in maester's ink. Ramsay doesn't strike me as someone who would change his methods. Ramsay wrote his original letters in the blood of the ironmen he killed at Moat Cailin. And he took special attention to send Asha a scrap of skin that belonged to Theon. Ramsay is a sociopath, he lives to strike fear in people. He is telling Jon that Stannis is dead, that the heads of the false friends are on the walls of Winterfell. 

Compare the letter Asha received and the PL.  

Also, have you and I argued over this before ;)

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13 hours ago, lalt said:

I just think that if we look at the PL as a tool to hurge Jon into leaving immediately with an army and then we try to figure why that should benefit the author, everything comes down far more easy.

I have been having a tiny problem. When you type hurge do you mean urge?

Yes, as has been said by many individuals the intent of the Pink/Bastard letter is to motivate Jon into taking action.

Jon does not have an army.  Jon has wildlings/free folk.

13 hours ago, lalt said:

then we try to figure why that should benefit the author,

That is part of the problem in trying to decipher who wrote the dastardly letter.

Motives abound --- as in Stannis wants help, Mance wants help, Bolton doesn't want people to get their hands on Jeyne/Arya, the NW are wound up because they think Jon is treasonous AND it has been clearly stated that the northmen inside and outside the walls of WF are suspicious of Bolton.

On more than one occasion I have admitted I dunna know who wrote that mind fuck of a letter. In my :dunce: of a mind the letter makes no sense. Bolton's flay. Bolton's do not cut out hearts and eat them.

In one of the posts you made you linked Mithras thread where Mithras brought together all the letters and gave comparisons. I have used Mithras' post in my own thread a while back.

13 hours ago, lalt said:

I just think that the purpose of the letter is not equal to the motive the author may have. The purpose serves the motive.

I want Jon to leave the wall (purpose) so that I can kill him (motive)

I want Jon to leave the wall (purpose) so that he may help me (motive)

That said, I generally believe that a tree is only a tree. But when it comes to the PL I honestly believe GRRM wanted to make of it the riddle it is.

This is ambiguous because I am not sure bolded word author is in reference to martin or the instigator of the dastardly letter.

Various readers of ASOIAF have differing views who wrote that letter supplying rational reasons why they think what they do.

All that needs to be done is for you to answer one question ---- who do you think wrote it --- or are you like me uncertain?

Below is the quote:

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII
Bastard, was the only word written outside the scroll.

No Lord Snow or Jon Snow or Lord Commander.

Simply Bastard.

And the letter was sealed with a smear of hard pink wax."

You were right to come at once," Jon said. You were right to be afraid.

He cracked the seal, flattened the parchment, and read.

Your false king is dead, bastard.

He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle.

I have his magic sword.

Tell his red whore.

Your false king's friends are dead.

Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard.

Your false king lied, and so did you.

You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall.

Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back.

If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him.

I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies.

The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back.

I want the false king's queen.

I want his daughter and his red witch.

I want his wildling princess.

I want his little prince, the wildling babe.

And I want my Reek.

Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows.

Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it./

 

I once upon a time tried over and over to make sense of that. One day maybe the author will disclose who wrote it. Or not.

 

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9 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I once upon a time tried over and over to make sense of that. One day maybe the author will disclose who wrote it. Or not. 

Just because people root for Stannis doesn't mean the Ramsey didn't wrote it.

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6 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

Just because people root for Stannis doesn't mean the Ramsey didn't wrote it.

You are possibly correct. As I have said I am uncertain who is behind the letter.

There are three maesters at WF.  They enter via the Lord's door located behind the dais. Before the war they had served Hornwood, Cerwyn and Slate.

A Dance with Dragons - The Prince of Winterfell      She [Dustin] might have said more, but then she saw the maesters. Three of them had entered together by the lord's door behind the dais—one tall, one plump, one very young, but in their robes and chains they were three grey peas from a black pod. Before the war, Medrick had served Lord Hornwood, Rhodry Lord Cerwyn, and young Henly Lord Slate. Roose Bolton had brought them all to Winterfell to take charge of Luwin's ravens, so messages might be sent and received from here again./

I mention this stuff because the northmen are not happy with Roose and because I do think that there is a northern conspiracy.

Nor are the northmen happy with the Frey's being round as referenced below.

A Dance with Dragons - A Ghost in Winterfell        "I do not claim Lord Wyman does the deeds himself. He brought three hundred men with him. A hundred knights. Any of them might have—"     "Night work is not knight's work," Lady Dustin said. "And Lord Wyman is not the only man who lost kin at your Red Wedding, Frey. Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the Greatjon, he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them, as Lady Hornwood ate her fingers. Flints, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Slates … they all had men with the Young Wolf."/

A fight breaks out and it is questionable whether Lord Manderly survives since two of his three chins have been slashed. A raven has arrived. The raven arrival is important because Stannis asked Tybald [Dreadfort maester riding with Karstark] questions Tybald about ravens. Tybald says he sent a map to WF.

Spoiler

The Winds of Winter - Theon I    "Answer me. If we were to loose these birds, would they return to the Dreadfort?" The king leaned forward. "Or might they fly for Winterfell instead?" <snip>  What was in the message you sent to Winterfell?   The maester quivered. "A m-map, Your Grace."/


Roose decides to send Manderly and Freys to seek out Stannis who is three days ride from WF.  Problem is I know Manderly is to fat to sit a horse and Lord Manderly had been flopping round on the floor due to his chins being sliced.

A Dance with Dragons - Theon I     "I see you all want blood," the Lord of the Dreadfort said. Maester Rhodry stood beside him, a raven on his arm. The bird's black plumage shone like coal oil in the torchlight. Wet, Theon realized. And in his lordship's hand, a parchment. That will be wet as well. Dark wings, dark words. "Rather than use our swords upon each other, you might try them on Lord Stannis." Lord Bolton unrolled the parchment. "His host lies not three days' ride from here, snowbound and starving, and I for one am tired of waiting on his pleasure. Ser Hosteen, assemble your knights and men-at-arms by the main gates. As you are so eager for battle, you shall strike our first blow. Lord Wyman, gather your White Harbor men by the east gate. They shall go forth as well."/

I typed all that to say this.  Stannis still has two ravens in his possession. Iffin' the attack on Stannis failed and Stannis prevailed ---- might Stannis send word to WF via Tybald's hand writting ---- that Stannis has been defeated?

Ramsey could have penned the letter under the false impression that Stannis is indeed dead.

OR Stannis is dead.    What about Mance in a cage?  Does that imply that there was a skirmish inside WF due to the Theon & Jeyne escape?

That the northmen failed in their attempt to rid the north of the Bolton's?   Mors [Umber outside the walls of WF] did grin when he received word that portcullis on the main gate was rising.

Maybe I am over complicating the dastardly letter. Maybe Stannis is dead; Mance is in a cage and the north men lost to Bolton. :bawl::crying: Please say it ain't so. :worried: [worried]
 

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20 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Does that imply that there was a skirmish inside WF due to the Theon & Jeyne escape?

I can't believe it were not, especially due to Ramsey nature & some of spearwives & Mance missing at time when Jeyne & Theon escaped.

Edited by Lady Winter Rose

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3 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Ramsey could have penned the letter under the false impression that Stannis is indeed dead.

OR Stannis is dead.    What about Mance in a cage?  Does that imply that there was a skirmish inside WF due to the Theon & Jeyne escape?

That the northmen failed in their attempt to rid the north of the Bolton's?   Mors [Umber outside the walls of WF] did grin when he received word that portcullis on the main gate was rising.

Maybe I am over complicating the dastardly letter. Maybe Stannis is dead; Mance is in a cage and the north men lost to Bolton. :bawl::crying: Please say it ain't so. :worried: [worried]
 

I can't see Mance being dead- he's too much of a badass and I think he still has story left.  My guess is that Ramsay has a spearwife who he has tortured and she spilled the beans.  Mance is living out his Bael the Bard fantasy in the crypts beneath Winterfell and won't be found for some time.  This assumes that Ramsay wrote the letter though, which I'm not sure he did.

I can't get over the Bael the Bard parallels as well- not only in Winterfell but in the PL itself, which involves the "trueborn" Lord of Winterfell insulting the King of the wildlings and demanding the return of a Stark girl to him.

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20 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I have been having a tiny problem. When you type hurge do you mean urge?

 

Wrong typing :) Sorry about that.

 

20 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

This is ambiguous because I am not sure bolded word author is in reference to martin or the instigator of the dastardly letter.

 Various readers of ASOIAF have differing views who wrote that letter supplying rational reasons why they think what they do.

All that needs to be done is for you to answer one question ---- who do you think wrote it --- or are you like me uncertain?

The author is in reference to the PL's author. And what I meant, is that whoever wrote it, had a purpose: to force Jon into leaving the Wall, with an army as soon as he read the letter.

If the author is Ramsey/Roose, his "motive" is to kill Jon (in battle, or after that battle as a deserter) so that he won't ever meet fArya and possibly Theon. 

If the author is not a Bolton, then he/she wants to gain Jon's help to defeaet the Boltons. So the purpuse of the letter is always the same, but the author's motive in a case like that (gaining Jon's help) would be different than that of a Bolton (to kill Jon before he will ever get the chance to meet fArya and possibly Theon).

To answer the other question... I am doubtful.

I think there are pretty good chances it was Ramsey.

And not because he is a sociopath. The PL makes perfet sense, given the circumstantes. And in fact, the only contra I can see, for Ramsey, is exactly that the PL is too much... clever, rational. For all the reasons I listed in the OP. So much so, I tend to thik, that maybe, the author is... Roose.

That said, when I think about the text, I cannot help but think about Mance. Like I said, it's not only because the author uses some words (crow, etc).... but because there are too many references to conversations between Mance and Jon, to things that matter in their pesonal (and shared) history (from their first meeting: the story Jon tells about him being a bastard/ the story Mance tells about his cloak). And to other things said (that you may quote verbatim) in presence of them both (so, things they both heard someone else saying). The way I see it, is that he may be playing a double trick. In a sense, of course he is deceiving Jon (because he needs that) at the same time he is giving Jon all the clues to understand what's going on, when the right time will come, at a second guess.

But that's just a feeling. A bet. I don't exclude Stannis as well.
The only think "clear" to me, for a non-Bolton author, is - of course - what his immediate goal and motive may be. That was in fact all the point of my OP.

That said, I won't lie or diminish one simple truth: to sustein that the PL wasn't written and sent by Ramsey (or Roose) we have to overcome many "problems". The ravens, the master, the opportunity, etc.  Not that there are not legit speculations about it, but surely it's an hard job to put all the dots needed together. And I feel that... we still miss something.

My only "certainty" is that Martin played us all: that he wanted to make of the PL a riddle and that the subject of my OP (that the PL purpose cannot be but one, regardless who wrote it) is something that perfectly underlines "our" author's (GRRM) purpose. That is... to let us speculate until TWOW.

Edited by lalt

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27 minutes ago, lalt said:

Not that there are not legit speculations about it, but surely it's an hard job to put all the dots needed together. And I feel that... we still miss something.

I agree and you have in my opinion been verra amiable. :) [smile]

 

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On 11/27/2018 at 3:14 AM, bemused said:

There's no proof that Ramsay had Mance in a cage, at all. There's only a claim. Looking at Mance and the remaining spearwives, while pretty well all of them have a chance of escape (some better than others) , Mance has the best chance of any of them. All he would have to do is change clothes (we know Myrtle collected changes of clothes for at least some of the spearwives), and then put Mel's ruby back on. Instantly, he'd appear to be a smaller and much homelier man. 

 

People claim that Mance would have been easily captured after the Jeyne rescue went south, but I would agree here that Mance is the least likely to be caught. Jeyne screaming and ruining her own escape mostly had negative consequences for the Spear-Wives, which revealed the escape sooner than expected. However, Mance & Co. wouldn't have expected a whole lot more time to escape than what happened in the book, because someone could have checked on Jeyne in her room at any moment even had Jeyne not blown their cover. I bet that when Theon and the "Washer-Women" are pulling their ruse, Mance has already started his escape, and the Spear-Wives were going to meet him (maybe in the crypt).

My theory is somewhat similar to yours, except I do believe Mance wrote the letter. The basic points:

1. Mance is still at Winterfell, and is glamoured to look like someone else (the chapter where Melisandre explains all of the aspects of the glamour in oddly great detail seems to be a key pointer that Mance could learn to manipulate the glamour on his own. However, just looking like someone else only buys him a finite amount of time, so he needs another option.

2. As seen from the Theon TWoW chapter, Stannis seems to be up to something with the Battle of the Ice, and specifically mentions the possibility that his men may hear the rumor of his defeat.

3. Stannis's gambit goes off as expected, and the remains of Ramsay's army bring back Stannis's sword as proof of his defeat.

4. Although Stannis is really not defeated, Mance unfortunately doesn't know that and thinks something needs to be done. He fakes the letter with two possible outcomes in mind: Jon comes down and attacks Winterfell, or Jon capitulates and brings some of the people that Mance wants for his own needs.

I guess we'll eventually see, whenever the book comes out.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

It's a fair point.

The one description the writer bothered giving us for the PL was of the seal.

And the letter was sealed with a smear of hard pink wax. (Jon XIII, ADWD 69)

And that seal is not the same as the other ones we've been given a description of.

It was tightly rolled and sealed, with a button of hard pink wax. Only the Dreadfort uses pink sealing wax.  (Jon VI, ADWD 28, p. 377)

He thrust the parchment at her as if he could not wait to be rid of it. It was tightly rolled and sealed with a button of hard pink wax. (The Wayward Bride, ADWD 26)

This is what we get word for word from two different characters. Jon's letter doesn't even seem like it's tightly rolled (but that's a different matter altogether) and the seal is different. So he makes note of the seal and it's different from what we've come to expect from Ramsay. Where the issue lies, is that Jon doesn't question why it's different because he sees that it's addressed to "bastard," not Jon Snow or Lord Commander. He sees who it's addressed to, the pink smear, tells Clydas that he was right to come to him, all the while he is thinking that the old man was right to be afraid. His expectation will be that whatever the contents are will be hostile. 

He breaks the letter, flattens it. And this is the other thing that happens, there are no flakes coming off the letter. The letter seems to have been written in maester's ink. Ramsay doesn't strike me as someone who would change his methods. Ramsay wrote his original letters in the blood of the ironmen he killed at Moat Cailin. And he took special attention to send Asha a scrap of skin that belonged to Theon. Ramsay is a sociopath, he lives to strike fear in people. He is telling Jon that Stannis is dead, that the heads of the false friends are on the walls of Winterfell. 

Compare the letter Asha received and the PL.  

Yeah, I know what you mean about the seal... But I have a different take on that as well. 

I think the pink smear of wax instead of a proper seal means Ramsay didn’t have access to the actual seal. Roose knows Ramsay is a total nutjob, and if he opposes  Ramsay’s idea of taunting the LC of the NW, he’s not gonna let Ramsay use the seal. Another option, or further explanation, is that the letter was a rushed job. If Ramsay is going to leave Winterfell after the Freys and Manderlys, he may not have had time to stick to his usual writing “style”, so no blood, no skin (which he used once before but not in both letters we’ve seen previously), and he didn’t even roll it up nice and tight. I know this can also support the notion that someone tampered w/ the letter. But I’m sticking to Ramsay as the author, b/c I think that is the explanation that makes the most sense. All the arguments used in support of someone else being the author are, IMO, just Martin being Martin and obfuscating the whole thing enough to allow for all the speculation and theorising we’ve seen over the last 7-8 yrs. 

21 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Also, have you and I argued over this before ;)

That’s very, very likely. :D

 

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35 minutes ago, lalt said:

And not because he is a sociopath. The PL makes perfet sense, given the circumstantes. And in fact, the only contra I can see, for Ramsey, is exactly that the PL is too much... clever, rational. For all the reasons I listed in the OP. So much so, I tend to thik, that maybe, the author is... Roose.

For me, the big issue when I first read it was that there was WAY too much information in there that Ramsay wouldn't know (or likely care about for some things). At the time, I wasn't speculating about there being an alternate author, just that this was absolutely BS writing.

The only defense that people have for that is that Ramsay tortured Mance to get that information. Except, most of it isn't information that Ramsay would easily glean because he wouldn't know the questions to ask. The only way this works is if we ignore all previous portrayals of Mance being a strong force of personality and accept that he broke from torture almost immediately and volunteered information beyond the questions that he was asked, including information that would get his own sister-in-law and child killed. Brings to mind the scene from The Goonies where Chunk is babbling every little thing he ever did wrong to the Fratellis while they sit around amused.

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6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, I know what you mean about the seal... But I have a different take on that as well. 

I think the pink smear of wax instead of a proper seal means Ramsay didn’t have access to the actual seal. Roose knows Ramsay is a total nutjob, and if he opposes  Ramsay’s idea of taunting the LC of the NW, he’s not gonna let Ramsay use the seal. Another option, or further explanation, is that the letter was a rushed job. If Ramsay is going to leave Winterfell after the Freys and Manderlys, he may not have had time to stick to his usual writing “style”, so no blood, no skin (which he used once before but not in both letters we’ve seen previously), and he didn’t even roll it up nice and tight. I know this can also support the notion that someone tampered w/ the letter. But I’m sticking to Ramsay as the author, b/c I think that is the explanation that makes the most sense. All the arguments used in support of someone else being the author are, IMO, just Martin being Martin and obfuscating the whole thing enough to allow for all the speculation and theorising we’ve seen over the last 7-8 yrs. 

That’s very, very likely. :D

 

I think the smear of wax is a hint that the letter had been opened and re-sealed. This was most likely done by Marsh and conspirators. They were scheming before the letter, largely due to pressure from Kings Landing and possibly the off-screen return of Thorne. I believe they simply took the letter as genuine and it forced them to act.

I don't believe it's genuine. I've been off the forums for a while but I've been banging the drum for Stannis since Theon I was first released. That thread has had a few updated versions over the years and having just completed a re-read I'll be posting the latest version this week.

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13 minutes ago, three-eyed monkey said:

I think the smear of wax is a hint that the letter had been opened and re-sealed. This was most likely done by Marsh and conspirators. They were scheming before the letter, largely due to pressure from Kings Landing and possibly the off-screen return of Thorne. I believe they simply took the letter as genuine and it forced them to act.

I don't believe it's genuine. I've been off the forums for a while but I've been banging the drum for Stannis since Theon I was first released. That thread has had a few updated versions over the years and having just completed a re-read I'll be posting the latest version this week.

I think it’s possible that the letter was opened, read, and re-“sealed”. I also don’t believe the letter’s contents are true. At least not entirely. In fact, I think the big [intended] mystery(ies) regarding the letter is, what is true and what is false, not its authoriship. 

For instance, I don’t believe for a second that Stannis has been defeated and is dead. But I do believe Ramsay believes it. 

Having said all that, I still don’t know who do you think wrote it! :P

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The main reason I don't think Ramsay wrote the letter is because it's totally out of character for him. He likes to hunt girls through the woods, not write letters. Castle Black is weeks from Winterfell, perhaps a month in the weather. He'd hunt her all the way to the Wall before he would write a letter that advertises the loss of such an important hostage.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I know this can also support the notion that someone tampered w/ the letter.

There's a very good chance the letter was opened before it came between Jon's hands. If Ramsay wrote it, then the letter had already been read by Bowen Marsh and his ilk.

It doesn't change that the letter is full of lies.

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That’s very, very likely. :D

Round and round we go ;)

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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