[Spoilers] Red Herrings

[The Sleeper]

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

If Aerea was taken to Valyria by Balerion and she died the way she did, in complete agony, then I don't know what it means for Euron having allegedly gone to Valyria. Is he just the awesomest awesome who can brave the smoking ruins of Valyria or really just a liar who lies. 

I think it means that the Reader hit the nail on the head when he asked his question. 

Though there is another thing to consider. Aerea was missing for quite some time which begs the question of how long she stayed in Valyria. Poor girl. 

The ideas I got were completely gruesome from that passage ranging from a hydrid of firewyrms and humans to her own dragon blood giving her magical cancer. I suppose that the parasites could have been firewyrms infecting her with their eggs or something. Or some other runaway Valyrian genetic experiment. 

[Lord Varys]

Euron was definitely not in Valyria. The Reader must have read either Septon Barth's accounts or references to those in other works. He knew why he was asking the question, and Euron knew why he reacted the way he did. There is a reason why he reacted aggressively and not, well, cocksure as I would if I knew I had been in Valyria and lived to tell about it.

[Euron Lannister]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Euron was definitely not in Valyria. The Reader must have read either Septon Barth's accounts or references to those in other works. He knew why he was asking the question, and Euron knew why he reacted the way he did. There is a reason why he reacted aggressively and not, well, cocksure as I would if I knew I had been in Valyria and lived to tell about it.

i think that would be to obvious, i expect a more twisted story about his valyria trip

[Lord Varys]

2 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

i think that would be to obvious, i expect a more twisted story about his valyria trip

There are sufficient hints already as to how he acquired Dragonbinder - from the Qartheen warlocks he captured. He has his supplies of shade of the evening from them, too.

Valyria as presented here in FaB is on a completely different level. A level you simply not survive if you don't hang out with Balerion. I mean, Balerion could have flown to and landed at places at Valyria where one can live. Euron would have to go there by ship and would have to make his way to the ruins overland. He cannot really run away, and he cannot fly away.

[Euron Lannister]

9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

There are sufficient hints already as to how he acquired Dragonbinder - from the Qartheen warlocks he captured. He has his supplies of shade of the evening from them, too.

Valyria as presented here in FaB is on a completely different level. A level you simply not survive if you don't hang out with Balerion. I mean, Balerion could have flown to and landed at places at Valyria where one can live. Euron would have to go there by ship and would have to make his way to the ruins overland. He cannot really run away, and he cannot fly away.

thats true and i do not belive he acquired Dragonbinder in Valyria, but i don't think "he simply wan't there" is the answer to the mystery, there has to be more, like he tried but turned around afte the first encounter in the smoking see, or he set sail towards the smoking see, passed out and woke up in slavers bay.

there are many shades of grey between his version of the story and him lying, that i don't belive its either black or white

[Lord Varys]

I actually think he just made the story up because he has a Valyrian dragonhorn. Note that he never mentioned that he captured some Qartheen warlocks. Why is that?

[Euron Lannister]

16 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Note that he never mentioned that he captured some Qartheen warlocks. Why is that?

thats a very interesting question

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

thats a very interesting question

I think I've answered it above. Also not that none of his goons (granted, many of them lack tongues) talk about having been at Valyria. A crucial reason why it is necessary that they lack tongues might be that they cannot contradict him.

[Euron Lannister]

22 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I think I've answered it above. Also not that none of his goons (granted, many of them lack tongues) talk about having been at Valyria. A crucial reason why it is necessary that they lack tongues might be that they cannot contradict him.

thats one possible answer, but there are many, thats what makes it so interesting imo

[lysmonger]

On 11/21/2018 at 8:24 PM, Lord Varys said:

There are sufficient hints already as to how he acquired Dragonbinder - from the Qartheen warlocks he captured. He has his supplies of shade of the evening from them, too.

Valyria as presented here in FaB is on a completely different level. A level you simply not survive if you don't hang out with Balerion. I mean, Balerion could have flown to and landed at places at Valyria where one can live. Euron would have to go there by ship and would have to make his way to the ruins overland. He cannot really run away, and he cannot fly away.

Aerrea is a 13 year old who doesnt know much about Valyria. Euron if he did go to Valyria wouldve at least studied where not to be. She still lived there for a year! What did she eat?  Wheat? Deer? Fish?  She got fireworm chimeras in her. Perhaps someone infected her.

Gerion Targaryen knew Valyria wasnt as accursed as it seemed.  But he died. 

 

Euron knew the same exact thing. And supposedly escaped. Perhaps he was let go when they realized he wanted to see the world burn. 

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

8 hours ago, lysmonger said:

Aerrea is a 13 year old who doesnt know much about Valyria. Euron if he did go to Valyria wouldve at least studied where not to be. She still lived there for a year! What did she eat?  Wheat? Deer? Fish?  She got fireworm chimeras in her. Perhaps someone infected her.

I think the reason Aerea was able to survive that long in Valyria was because of her blood. She was as Valyrian as they came. One thing we will never know is whether she started being sick while she was in Valyria or after she left it, like maybe whatever foul sorcery that kept her alive in Valyria could not keep her alive after she left it. 

On another note, one of the things that I found more than interesting is how close House Corbray was to the Targaryens. And House Manderly too. And House Peake sure knows how to hold on to grudges. This seems to be setting the table for Winds of Winter, I think.

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

On another note, one of the things that I found more than interesting is how close House Corbray was to the Targaryens. And House Manderly too. And House Peake sure knows how to hold on to grudges. This seems to be setting the table for Winds of Winter, I think.

There is a reason why Davos hears people in White Harbor talk about the Targaryens.

Not all Peakes are bad. There is a reason, one assumes, that Lord Unwin doesn't have a son. He should eventually be dealt with by Aegon III and Viserys - he cannot really get away with what he did and tried to do - and there must be a reason how there are still Peakes later on. Possibly we'll meet some good or at least smart Peakes from a cadet branch.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

52 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Not all Peakes are bad.

That goes without saying. Although, so far, they're not exactly all that great. To borrow a line from Gerold Dayne, the Peakes seem to have been weaned on venom. 

53 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

There is a reason, one assumes, that Lord Unwin doesn't have a son. He should eventually be dealt with by Aegon III and Viserys - he cannot really get away with what he did and tried to do - and there must be a reason how there are still Peakes later on. Possibly we'll meet some good or at least smart Peakes from a cadet branch.

He doesn't have a son currently, but that could change in the next installment. And even if it's the daughter only that he has left, she should not be underestimated. Her father feels his daughter was spurned by Aegon, It doesn't take much for him to fill her head with the same notion.

The whole story with Unwin (I imagine his name could have been chosen ironically). My mind went straight to the Peake brothers with the Golden Company and the yet to be seen on page Titus Peake and how we might end up with a Peake on Peake war. 

[Curled Finger]

On 11/21/2018 at 8:40 AM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

If Aerea was taken to Valyria by Balerion and she died the way she did, in complete agony, then I don't know what it means for Euron having allegedly gone to Valyria. Is he just the awesomest awesome who can brave the smoking ruins of Valyria or really just a liar who lies. 

Or he's got worms with faces crawling around in his brain...

[Fire Eater]

On 11/23/2018 at 2:47 AM, lysmonger said:

Aerrea is a 13 year old who doesnt know much about Valyria. Euron if he did go to Valyria wouldve at least studied where not to be. She still lived there for a year! What did she eat?  Wheat? Deer? Fish?  She got fireworm chimeras in her. Perhaps someone infected her.

Gerion Targaryen knew Valyria wasnt as accursed as it seemed.  But he died. 

 

Euron knew the same exact thing. And supposedly escaped. Perhaps he was let go when they realized he wanted to see the world burn. 

 

How would Euron have found out where not to be? Every person who ventured there never returned. Aerea is the only exception, and she didn't live long enough to describe her experience there. There are no sources to go on that detail a safe place to land. 

[lysmonger]

She lived there for a year and survived. That must mean there is some food there. Perhaps fish and deer?
 

[sweetsunray]

23 hours ago, lysmonger said:

She lived there for a year and survived. That must mean there is some food there. Perhaps fish and deer?
 

It's not exactly stated she lived there for a year. We know she was missing for more than a year, but it doesn't mean she was in Valyria for over a year. She probably did travel across the Pentos region. Even if the people looking for Aerea in that area came across murderous robbers weeks or months later, that doesn't mean there might not have been a Balerion grabbing some sheep and staying there for a week or a month before traveling onwards. The robbers got their monster-stealing-sheep-idea from somewhere right? Then we have that huge fire at the Disputed Lands. So, it might have taken months before they actually arrived in Valyria. And as wounded as Balerion was it might have taken even longer to return to King's Landing.

[Curled Finger]

All we know is Septon Barth thinks Aerea was in Valyria.   Now before I even got to Barth's musings my mind went straight to Gogossos, but that doesn't mean anything.   For all we know, flying over Valyria may have been enough to do whatever was done to Aerea and Balerion.   I think the deeper question is if a dragon can choose a rider why take that rider, a bond creature, to Valyria at all?   To anywhere harmful?  If he wanted her dead or just off him he could have given her the same treatment Syrax gave Joff.   It's not likely Balerion went home to die since he returned to Westeros with his bond creature.  That goes against instinctual reason.  Doesn't it?   So how about maybe this whole idea of Barth's may be wrong.   How could he possibly know about the horrors of Valyria if no one has gone and returned from there?   

[Lord Varys]

14 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

All we know is Septon Barth thinks Aerea was in Valyria.   Now before I even got to Barth's musings my mind went straight to Gogossos, but that doesn't mean anything.   For all we know, flying over Valyria may have been enough to do whatever was done to Aerea and Balerion.   I think the deeper question is if a dragon can choose a rider why take that rider, a bond creature, to Valyria at all?   To anywhere harmful?  If he wanted her dead or just off him he could have given her the same treatment Syrax gave Joff.   It's not likely Balerion went home to die since he returned to Westeros with his bond creature.  That goes against instinctual reason.  Doesn't it?   So how about maybe this whole idea of Barth's may be wrong.   How could he possibly know about the horrors of Valyria if no one has gone and returned from there?   

As I said, Gyldayn claims Aerea wanted to fly 'far, far away'. If that were true, Valyria would be a good enough goal as any. Balerion himself had no inclination to fly there while he was riderless.

And the idea that Aerea wanted to go anywhere in Westeros after what had just happened on Dragonstone is very far-fetched - not KL, not Oldtown, not Fair Isle. Not anywhere there.

Not even to Elissa Farman. Perhaps she just wanted to fly away as far as she could and then they landed at Valyria after they had got far enough east to land there. After all, if there was a girl who would have wanted to explore Valyria once she got close to it it would have been Aerea.

The fact that they got back alive, too, also implies Aerea had a good enough amount of control over Balerion. 

[Curled Finger]

Just now, Lord Varys said:

As I said, Gyldayn claims Aerea wanted to fly 'far, far away'. If that were true, Valyria would be a good enough goal as any. Balerion himself had no inclination to fly there while he was riderless.

And the idea that Aerea wanted to go anywhere in Westeros after what had just happened on Dragonstone - not KL, not Oldtown, not Fair Isle. Not anywhere there.

Not even to Elissa Farman. Perhaps she just wanted to fly away as far as she could and then they landed at Valyria after they had got far enough east to land there. After all, if there was a girl who would have wanted to explore Valyria once she got close to it it would have been Aerea.

The fact that they got back alive, too, also implies Aerea had a good enough amount of control over Balerion. 

That's very good.   I read the entire thing to infer she was sort of hapless.  I still can't imagine anyone, certainly of Valyrian descent, wanting to visit the home land.  Of course, she was just an angry child.   You've given this 13 year old agency I could not.   Now it's worth a re listen.