Lady Rhodes Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Hello All! I am so glad to be a part of this community of thinkers and theorizers, and for how welcoming you all are. Tin foil and all, you lot are great. I am trying to create a running list of what all Martin needs to accomplish or have revealed by the end of Dream. Please note, this isn't a list of what's going to happen, but a list of "we know something is going to happen but not exactly sure what". I am trying to figure out what all may appear in Winds and what may appear in Dream. Here is what I have so far, please add your additions or revisions! 1. The Fight with the Others 2. The Fight for the Iron Throne 3. Resolution to Slaver's Bay 4. What is up with the Maester's of Oldtown? 5. What is up with the Vale? 6a. What is up with the Faceless Men? 6b. What is up with the Faceless Men in Oldtown? 7. Why is Euron going to Oldtown? 8. Dany lands in Westeros 9. Dorne - What's going on? 10. Where is Robb's Will? I was going to add various character meetings, but I feel that is a given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Find out once and for all who Jon's parents are. (A part of me will miss the various parentage arguments though) Is Aegon a Targaryen or a Blackfyre? Why is Darkstar "the most dangerous man in Dorne" Is Bloodraven really a good guy? What is under Robert Strong's helmet? What happened to Benjen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Resolution to the Night's Watch VS Wildlings problem. Resolution to the problem who's going to rule over The North. It's obvious, that eventually either fAegon, or Stannis, or Euron will get to Iron Throne, before it will be finally taken by Dany and her army and dragons, but what's going to happen even before that? What's going to happen with Cersei, Tommen and Myrcella? What's going on in The Reach? What was Olenna Tyrell's master plan? What really happened to Rhaego? Who is Quaithe? Who is Azor Ahai reborn? Who is the promised Prince? Will there be the Stallion that mounts the world (Khal of khals that will unite all Dothraki)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three-Fingered Pete Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Where is Rickon Stark and what will happen (has happened) to him? Lady Stoneheart & Co. Who will lead the NW? What will Theon's final disposition be? Asha? Ramsey Bolton on a spit. Hot Pie winning the bi-annual Pinkmaiden Great Bake Off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Rhodes Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said: Find out once and for all who Jon's parents are. (A part of me will miss the various parentage arguments though) Is Aegon a Targaryen or a Blackfyre? Why is Darkstar "the most dangerous man in Dorne" Is Bloodraven really a good guy? What is under Robert Strong's helmet? What happened to Benjen? Ah, excellent thoughts. I had forgotten about Darkstar! To gain that reputation, he had to have done something in the past, right? That only the prince of Dorne could be privy to? Bloodraven - yes. Robert Strong's helmet - I think nothing. I am reminded of Bran's vision. How could I forget Benjen?!?! 1 hour ago, Trefayne said: Where is Rickon Stark and what will happen (has happened) to him? Lady Stoneheart & Co. Who will lead the NW? What will Theon's final disposition be? Asha? Ramsey Bolton on a spit. Hot Pie winning the bi-annual Pinkmaiden Great Bake Off. Darn it, if Hot Pie doesn't win there will be another seven kingdoms rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 º Marwyn: beneficial or detrimental creep? º the "successful" dragon theft + hyjinx. + chase? º resolution of blackfyre fued, bloodraven tantrum or no. º slaver continent to fix or abandon: º Essos b through d: fire religion to be purged with....... fire? (To bring them in line as Danny's worthy custodians of the East?) The Doth-crones? (To bring the Khalisars in line as better citizens and unite them to...mount the world?) Pentos intrigue en route to westeros? º Arya. Needed everywhere, has enough faces but only one body. Where O Where to send her. º Qyburn and Varys zombie / dance of death plotline in addition to whatever seige is happening. º Do the Hightowers have something they'd like to say, to us or to Daenerys, maybe about the ancient function of sphinxes, or how their magicless world is looking to them now with the Others' return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said: I had forgotten about Darkstar! To gain that reputation, he had to have done something in the past, right? That only the prince of Dorne could be privy to? I think he knows some kind of dangerous information that is detrimental to House Martell. Maybe the man is of Targaryen descent, or he knows about what happened at the Tower of Joy or something. I don't doubt the guy is skilled with a sword, he is a Dayne after all, but I don't see how one man who is skilled at arms can be considered dangerous in the grand scheme of things. 3 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said: Bloodraven - yes. I think there is a possibility that Bloodraven wants to take over Bran's body or something. 3 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said: Robert Strong's helmet - I think nothing. I am reminded of Bran's vision. My favourite tinfoil theory is that Qyburn attached either Robert Baratheon, or Robb Stark's head to Gregor Clegane's body. 3 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said: How could I forget Benjen?!?! I refuse to believe the man was a simple plot device to get Jon Snow to the Wall! xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 The big stuff: Fight against the Others Fight for the Iron Throne Dance of Dragons v. 2 - may or may not be separate from IT fight Aftermath - who is charge of what? Prerequisites: Dany and Tyrion return to Westeros, presumably with Army. Arya returns to Westeros. Why, where, and with what skills? Unlikely to be assassin. Jon returns to living (or consciousness). Probably in charge of fight against Others. Stannis vs. Boltons resolved. Sansa learns the game - in the Vale. Bran learns magical stuff and does something useful. Are Bloodraven and CotF good guys? Jamie and Brienne sorted out. Dornish plots revealed. Future of Iron Islands - what role for Asha and Theon. Jon's parentage revealed. Many, many mysteries resolved. Can't think of them all right now. Not required: We may or may not find out Aegon's parentage. May or may not be important figure. Faceless Men will likely remain mysterious - although Jaqen's presence in Oldtown needs explaining. Rickon may or may not play a role. That's all I have for now. I'm sure I will think of more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said: Hello All! I am so glad to be a part of this community of thinkers and theorizers, and for how welcoming you all are. Tin foil and all, you lot are great. I am trying to create a running list of what all Martin needs to accomplish or have revealed by the end of Dream. Please note, this isn't a list of what's going to happen, but a list of "we know something is going to happen but not exactly sure what". I am trying to figure out what all may appear in Winds and what may appear in Dream. Here is what I have so far, please add your additions or revisions! 1. The Fight with the Others 2. The Fight for the Iron Throne 3. Resolution to Slaver's Bay 4. What is up with the Maester's of Oldtown? 5. What is up with the Vale? 6a. What is up with the Faceless Men? 6b. What is up with the Faceless Men in Oldtown? 7. Why is Euron going to Oldtown? 8. Dany lands in Westeros 9. Dorne - What's going on? 10. Where is Robb's Will? I was going to add various character meetings, but I feel that is a given I feel like these three are too early. They will not happen until the last volume in the series. The resolution to Slaver's Bay is a very important plot and it will not be resolved this early. The fight for the iron throne. There will be many. I am assuming here that you meant between Aegon and the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus Rex Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 On 11/20/2018 at 11:48 AM, Lady Rhodes said: [snip] I'll do my own list. I'll call it loose ends that will (probably) need to be resolved before the end. (1) Nymeria and her Chekov's Wolf Pack go off. (2) Dany rides her third mount. (3) The Valonqar prophesy resolves. (4) Tommen & Myrcella's "golden shroud" prophesy resolves. (4) Resolution of Brienne's triple oath to "Take the sword and kill the kingslayer(s)" (5) The "girl in grey" prophesy resolves. (6) We find out what frightened Hodor in the crypts. (7) We find out who Jon's mother was. (8) Someone attempts a Kings-blood human sacrifice to "wake the stone dragon". (9) A faceless man impersonates a significant character. (10) Dany reaches Westeros. (11) A promised twist occurs involving Daario, proving there's more to him than meets the eye. (12) Dany finds the House with the Red Door. (13) Prophesy of Dany's third betrayal ("for love") resolved. (14) Hidden wildfire bomb under Kings Landing explodes, is neutralized, or is otherwise resolved. (15) Dragonbinder horn is blown and we find out what it does. (16) Additional dragonrider(s) emerge. (17) At least one dragon-on-dragon battle. (18) We meet Howland Reed. (19) Number of POV characters radically pared down. (20) Arya returns to Westeros. List continued below …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindsayLohan Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Is Lothor Brune going to bang Mya Stone? Will Arya return to Westeros and throw Gendry some booty? Will Sansa's dream finally come true and hook up with Sandor? Will Jon Snow get to take Val to Pound Town? Will Brandon grow up and touch Meera's bootay? Will Samwell knock up his wildling woman? Will Tommen live long enough to honeymoon with Marge? Will Johah ever get to give Dany a proper spanking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 How will Wyman Manderly's fleet come into play? Gendry finding out he's Robert Baratheon's bastard (if he doesn't already) Edric Dayne shows up somewhere. Extinction of House Bolton. Role of Pirate King Aurane Waters and his dromonds. What's going on at Dragonstone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Cross Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 What needs to happen: The Dothraki khalasars bowing down to Daenerys. The Battle of Fire begins. Barristan's forces + Victarion's ironborn vs. The Masters' armies + the sellswords. Sweetrobin has LF and Sansa executed. Jon Snow's death and funeral fire. Bowen Marsh has Jon's body burned and his ashes scattered at the foot of the wall. The Battle of ice between Roose Bolton and Stannis Baratheon, with a victory for Roose. Stannis is executed. Dance of the Direwolves, a fight to the death between Ghost and Shaggy Dog. Cersei's 7 champions vs. the Faith's 7 champions. Aegon's forces attack King's Landing. Mance Rayder and his wildlings get flayed by Ramsay. Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserys increase in size substantially. Euron attacks Oldtown and the citadel. The House of Black and White send an assassin after Arya Stark. The slaves in Volantis revolt against their masters. Led by the widow. Marwyn reaches Meereen. Tyrion and Penny sail for Westeros with the mercenaries to claim Casterly Rock. Jorah goes to Vaes Dothrak to find Daenerys. Daenerys returns to Meereen with a united khalasar. Bran betrays Bloodraven and leaves the cave with Meera. Bowen Marsh and Ser Aliser unite the remaining members of the NW. The wildlings under Tormund leave the wall and ride for Winterfell to rescue Mance. Only a handful survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Rhodes Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 14 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said: Robb Stark's head Joffrey did order the head to be returned, correct? So, that is a loose thread... 14 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said: I think he knows some kind of dangerous information I agree. Does anyone happen to know off of the top of their head how old he is in relation to the other characters? Could he have been alive when Ned arrived at Starfall? And old enough to remember? 14 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said: I refuse to believe the man was a simple plot device to get Jon Snow to the Wall! Agreement! 13 hours ago, Bowen 747 said: I feel like these three are too early. They will not happen until the last volume in the series. I'm sorry, I was vague. I meant these things need to happen by the end of the series. However, if we are splitting them into books, I think A LOT has to happen in Winds. Perhaps I am thinking too much on this, but I think the battle with the Others and the final battle for the Iron Throne is going to take up a Dream for Spring. But, that means that Dany needs to get to Westeros at least 3/4 of the way through Winds to start making alliances and waging wars. My two cents at least. 12 hours ago, Platypus Rex said: 1) Nymeria and her Chekov's Wolf Pack go off. Yes! Also, in reference to dany's mounts and treasons, I am curious as to how many have been completed. Yesterday I went through a list of the visions of the undying, and the order in which they appeared, trying to make a pattern...I got diddly squat. :/ 12 hours ago, Platypus Rex said: (8) Someone attempts a Kings-blood human sacrifice to "wake the stone dragon". I think this was Summerhall and, possibly, Tower of Joy (after reading the Babe in the Wood Heresy Thread, I am still skeptical, but I also am aware of my own bias - I don't want it to be true, but that doesn't mean that it is not true...) 25 minutes ago, Sire de Maletroit said: Euron attacks Oldtown and the citadel. I am still trying to figure out Euron. He plays a part, but what? He has sailed everywhere, has he encountered the Others? We know he found Pyat Pree after Pree left in search of Dany. He has been to Valyria, too. His Crow's Eye nickname reminds me of the Three Eyed Crow as well...and then there are all of these visions with him and sacrificial gods. Hmmm...Euron's whole endgame needs to be worked through. I want to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 49 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said: Does anyone happen to know off of the top of their head how old he is in relation to the other characters? Could he have been alive when Ned arrived at Starfall? And old enough to remember? In 300 he's in his late 20s, so he was born between 270 and 274. So at the time, when Ned came to Starfall, Gerold was at least 9 years old, or maybe even as old as 13. Though he's a Dayne from High Hermitage castle. So unless at that time he was serving as a squire, page or warden to main branch of Dayne's family, then he wasn't there, when Ned came to Starfall. Though High Hermitage is located between the Tower of Joy and Starfall, so maybe, even if Gerold wasn't at Starfall, when Ned came there, it's likely, that on the way to Starfall, Ned had stopped at High Hermitage, and thus Gerold saw him there. 48 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said: I am still trying to figure out Euron. He plays a part, but what? He has sailed everywhere, has he encountered the Others? We know he found Pyat Pree after Pree left in search of Dany. He has been to Valyria, too. His Crow's Eye nickname reminds me of the Three Eyed Crow as well...and then there are all of these visions with him and sacrificial gods. Hmmm...Euron's whole endgame needs to be worked through. I want to know! And he also has visited Asshai, and owns a Valyrian steel armor <- where did he got that? How about this possibility? -> Quaithe is Shiera Seastar, and the Three-eyed Crow; Euron used to be her disciple, or he's still working for her. His nickname is Crow's Eye because he is Shiera's agent/spy. And this is shadowbinder Quaithe/Shiera with glass candle in her hands (TWOW spoiler) Spoiler The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three-Fingered Pete Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 6 hours ago, LindsayLohan said: Is Lothor Brune going to bang Mya Stone? Will Arya return to Westeros and throw Gendry some booty? Will Sansa's dream finally come true and hook up with Sandor? Will Jon Snow get to take Val to Pound Town? Will Brandon grow up and touch Meera's bootay? Will Samwell knock up his wildling woman? Will Tommen live long enough to honeymoon with Marge? Will Johah ever get to give Dany a proper spanking? Finally, someone brings up the real issues! Fifty Shades of Ice and Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coconut God Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I think these are the two essential ones: The Others are a Chekhov's gun that must go off Jon's story and Dany's story must converge Aside from that, in random order, the story needs: Catharsis for the Red Wedding A pay-off or resolution for Dany's anti-slavery campaign A way for Arya's faceless man training to segue into the central plot To identify a new purpose for Tyrion Aegon to play a big enough role in the story to justify his introduction Euron to play a big enough role in the story to justify his introduction Brienne to play a big enough role in the story to justify her character development in AFFC Quentin's death to create big enough waves to justify his character arc Dorne to at the very least tie together well with the conflict in the South Victarion to do something meaningful Volantis and Pentos to get some form of pay-off To reveal what Varys and Illyrio's plans were To reveal what Littlefinger's plans were A way for Sansa to enter the main plot A pay-off for Robert Strong and Cersei's trial A pay-off for the conflict with the Faith A pay-off for the valonqar prophecy To reveal what Bran is doing and whose side Bloodraven is on To finish Jaime's redemption arc To reveal Azor Ahai reborn Rickon to play at least some small part To reveal who Jon's parents are (to the readers, not necessarily to the characters) To strongly hint whether Aegon is fake or not (to the readers, not necessarily to the characters) Note that I DO NOT believe Dany landing in Westeros is in any way mandatory. I believe the Exodus to Essos scenario would also meet the requirements for a thematically satisfying ending, and it would have much better chances to fit in the remaining two books. Whether or not you would find it too bitter to call bittersweet is another question, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Rhodes Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Megorova said: Gerold was at least 9 years old, or maybe even as old as 13 So, it is completely plausible that he would recall events that occurred in Dorne. This leads me to wonder if Doran and Oberyn know about Jon's true parentage. It is understandable that Dorne would feel no inclination to aid Jon nor harm him since Ned was claiming him as his bastard. But that does not mean that they don't count the knowledge as dangerous. I have always wondered, too, why Rhaegar would take Lyanna to Dorne, his wife's family's stronghold? Just seems odd to me. 1 hour ago, Megorova said: Three-eyed Crow; Euron used to be her disciple, I don't understand how it all fits together, but I think the TEC, Euron, the Faceless Men, Asshai, The Others, and Oldtown/Maesters/something at the Citadel are all connected. If that is the case, no wonder The Winds of Winter is taking so long. Can you imagine trying to parse that out?! 21 minutes ago, The Coconut God said: to play a big enough role in the story to justify his introduction For everything that you used that for, 100%. I agree. 21 minutes ago, The Coconut God said: Note that I DO NOT believe Dany landing in Westeros is in any way mandatory I have gone back and forth on this quite a bit, but part of me has always wondered if Dany's Quest for the Iron Throne is a Macguffin (Like the ending of How I Met Your Mother) and that she will end up back in Meereen, ruling. That, or she dies. Either would be bittersweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coconut God Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said: I have gone back and forth on this quite a bit, but part of me has always wondered if Dany's Quest for the Iron Throne is a Macguffin (Like the ending of How I Met Your Mother) and that she will end up back in Meereen, ruling. That, or she dies. Either would be bittersweet. I think she'll conquer all/most of the continent, but by the end of it the Faceless Men will kill her (remaining) dragons and she won't be able to go to Westeros and save it from the Others, so everyone will have to hunker down and survive the Long Winter in Essos. I pretty much convinced myself that the Exodus theory makes complete sense, but I'm still a bit worried that George put the hints there without realizing and won't actually do it, or worse, he will do it and people will feel "cheated" even though the series' fame was built on subverting expectations and clever twists. I made a post on reddit about Dany conquering Essos (complete with notes on the map) if you want to check it out. It has a link to the more recent version of the Exodus scenario in it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Rhodes Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Coconut God said: I made a post on reddit about Dany conquering Essos (complete with notes on the map) if you want to check it out. It has a link to the more recent version of the Exodus scenario in it as well. Thanks! I will. I do think she will end up in Westeros, but I am open the possibility that a long reign is not in the cards for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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