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Lady Rhodes

AA, PtwP, and The Dragon has Three Heads

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I have looked all over and I don't know where else to put this thought. I thought about in the Fire and Blood section, but it didn't quite fit either.  Please add your comments and thoughts.

I have not read F&B yet, but when I first heard that it was coming out prior to Winds, I was confused. Why are you putting this book out first? I am sure I will enjoy (I haven't read it yet - my mom got it for my husband for Christmas, so I am waiting...or attempting to at least!) but I would have enjoyed Winds, too!  And, while I enjoy the ancillary material, I don't believe that it should be required reading in order to grasp the main story. 

That said, I did not read any of the Dunk and Egg tales, only for Brynden Rivers to appear in Dance! This has led me to form a belief - I think Martin has provided clues to something in the main text, but that they are vague and/or have been missed by even the most astute of readers.  For this reason, although there will people who read into things and/or find red herrings, Martin has put clues into F&B to hopefully guide readers in the right direction.  My assumption is that, without doing this, many people would be caught off guard and feel like something is coming from nowhere. In short - no, F&B isn't giving us clues to ASOIAF mysteries, but it is providing clues to illuminate things that we may be missing in the canonical text.

Though I have not read, someone in the F&B forum mentioned that Jaehaerys I and Jaehaerys II both married their wives in secret.  Interestingly, Jaehaerys I has a connection to the Wall and the Night's Watch and Jaehaerys II forced his children, Aerys and Rhaella, to marry because the Prince that was Promised would be born from their line.  Jon is already associated with JI by his being a member of the NW.  If he is found to be the trueborn son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, he would be a contender for PtwP as associated with JII.  In addition, we have been led to believe that Rhaegar is obsessed with the PtwP theory and the dragon having three heads.  I gather two things from this: 1)Rhaegar's children will all have Valyrian names - I am betting that Jon is Jaehaerys III (Ned chose Jon for Jon Arryn and because it shares the same first initial, my thoughts.) and 2) I recall Marwyn's thoughts on prophecy - when you begin to trust in it, it bites you.

So, if I am correct, we have a JI, JII, and a JIII.  Are they the three heads of the dragon?

Furthermore, Azor Ahai tempered his blade in water, in the heart of a lion, and then in the heart of his love, Nissa Nissa.  Could each Jaehaerys be an incarnation of this tempering? 

JI's wife, Alysanne, dies after grieving their daughter that drowned.  - WATER
JII's wife, Shaera, mysteriously little information is given.  We do not know when she died or where or under what circumstances. We do know, though, that JII died in 262 AC.  We also know that Tywin Lannister was the King's Hand to Aerys for 20 years and resigned when Jaime was knighted to Kingsguard which was in 281-282.  This means that Tywin was King's Hand when Aerys was named King.  We need more information here to prove anything conclusive or definitive, but I am proposing that Shaera died by some way of a LION.
Jon or JIII meets Ygritte and "steals" her, which in wilding culture makes her is, or in another way of phrasing, married. It could also be said that it was in secret. Ygritte then dies with Night's Watch arrow in her HEART.

I am bouncing this off the walls here, looking for feedback to see if I am on to something or have donned a tin foil hat.
 

 

 

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The dragon has three heads refers to the three headed banner of House Targaryens.  Daenerys Targaryen is the Child of Three.  She is the one who woke dragons from stone and fulfilled the requirements to be Azor Ahai.  The dragon has three heads is a call back to the three Targaryens who built the seven kingdoms.  The saying basically hints that three Targaryens may rebuild Westeros again.  Daenerys will ride Drogon.  Two others could become dragon riders for Viserion and Rhaegal.

Edited by Moiraine Sedai

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3 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

That said, I did not read any of the Dunk and Egg tales

Blasphemy!!! ;)

seriously, though, you are missing out. Regardless of clues, just missing out on these perfectly delicious, entertaining, and beautiful novellas. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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14 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Blasphemy!!! ;)

seriously, though, you are missing out. Regardless of clues, just missing out on these perfectly delicious, entertaining, and beautiful novellas. 

We (my husband and I) have the compilation, Just haven’t gotten to it

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19 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Rhaegar's children will all have Valyrian names - I am betting that Jon is Jaehaerys III (Ned chose Jon for Jon Arryn and because it shares the same first initial, my thoughts.)

And I am betting, that Jon is Aegon. For various reasons.

1. Aegon I is the most famous Targaryen, and first Valyrian King of Westeros.

2. All other Aegons of ASOIAF are also very famous - Aegon II and III - known thru the Dance of the Dragons, civil war between Targaryens; Aegon IV, who has fathered numerous children, many of which greatly influenced history of 7K, such as Daemon I Blackfyre, Bloodraven (who was the Hand of three Kings), Shiera Seastar, Bittersteel, Daeron II Targaryen; Aegon V, who was one of the most down to earth Kings of 7K, that truly cared about his people.

3. ASOIAF is obviously inspired by The Lord of the Rings and Arthurian legends.

There was a secret lost prince in LOTR - Aragorn, secret lost prince of Britain - Arthur Pendragon. And there's a lost prince in Westeros - Jon Snow/Aegon VII Targaryen. All three names are derivative from word dragon - (D)Aragorn, Pendragon, (Dr)Aegon.

And all three princes are carriers of fire-swords. Aragorn's sword was Anduril/Flame of the West, there was two firebreathing chimeras on Arthur's sword Excalibur, and Jon's sword is Lightbringer.

fAegon is going to be presented as Aegon Targaryen, thus he will be sixth Targaryen King of this name. Also, if he is actually a Blackfyre, then for him to be the VI Aegon, will be very fitting, because his invasion of Westeros will be the Sixth Blackfyre Rebellion. And also, if GRRM is basing ASOIAF on the Bible, and Dany, Rhaego and Jon are the Holy Trinity of ASOIAF, three heads of the dragon, The Mother, The Son, and the Holy Ghost, then fAegon, who is their enemy, and false King, is GRRM's parallel to Biblical Antichrist, whose number is triple 6.

So fAegon will be Aegon VI Targaryen, thus Jon, the true King, that will appear after fAegon, will be crowned as Aegon VII Targaryen. Seven Kingdoms began with Aegon and will end with Aegon.

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19 minutes ago, Megorova said:

And I am betting, that Jon is Aegon. For various reasons.

1. Aegon I is the most famous Targaryen, and first Valyrian King of Westeros.

2. All other Aegons of ASOIAF are also very famous - Aegon II and III - known thru the Dance of the Dragons, civil war between Targaryens; Aegon IV, who has fathered numerous children, many of which greatly influenced history of 7K, such as Daemon I Blackfyre, Bloodraven (who was the Hand of three Kings), Shiera Seastar, Bittersteel, Daeron II Targaryen; Aegon V, who was one of the most down to earth Kings of 7K, that truly cared about his people.

3. ASOIAF is obviously inspired by The Lord of the Rings and Arthurian legends.

There was a secret lost prince in LOTR - Aragorn, secret lost prince of Britain - Arthur Pendragon. And there's a lost prince in Westeros - Jon Snow/Aegon VII Targaryen. All three names are derivative from word dragon - (D)Aragorn, Pendragon, (Dr)Aegon.

And all three princes are carriers of fire-swords. Aragorn's sword was Anduril/Flame of the West, there was two firebreathing chimeras on Arthur's sword Excalibur, and Jon's sword is Lightbringer.

fAegon is going to be presented as Aegon Targaryen, thus he will be sixth Targaryen King of this name. Also, if he is actually a Blackfyre, then for him to be the VI Aegon, will be very fitting, because his invasion of Westeros will be the Sixth Blackfyre Rebellion. And also, if GRRM is basing ASOIAF on the Bible, and Dany, Rhaego and Jon are the Holy Trinity of ASOIAF, three heads of the dragon, The Mother, The Son, and the Holy Ghost, then fAegon, who is their enemy, and false King, is GRRM's parallel to Biblical Antichrist, whose number is triple 6.

So fAegon will be Aegon VI Targaryen, thus Jon, the true King, that will appear after fAegon, will be crowned as Aegon VII Targaryen. Seven Kingdoms began with Aegon and will end with Aegon.

Interesting, but I don’t see why Rhaegar would name both of his sons Aegon

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2 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Interesting, but I don’t see why Rhaegar would name both of his sons Aegon

By the time when Jon/Aegon was born, his father was already dead (for about two months or so), so the one, who has named him was, most likely, his mother, Lyanna. And by the time, when the Tower of Joy happened, those Kingsguards, that were guarding Lyanna and their newborn true King, they already knew, that Elia and both of her children are dead, same as King Aerys and Rhaegar.

Furthermore, it seems, that Rhaegar was sure, that Elia's Aegon was the Prince that was promised, and that his third child will be a girl. Thus he has chosen a girl's name for his unborn child. So when he died, and Lyanna gave birth to a boy, she had to chose a name for him on her own. No? :huh: And what would be the best/most popular male name for a Targaryen prince? -> Aegon. Like Aegon I Targaryen, called Aegon the Conqueror and Aegon the Dragon, first Targaryen king.

1. By the time, when Jon was born, Lyanna knew, that Elia's Aegon is dead

+

2. according to Rhaegar's will, his child was supposed to be named, probably, Visenya. But because instead of a girl, Lyanna gave birth to a boy, this child ("Jon") was without preliminarily decided/chosen name. And Rhaegar didn't said how to name a baby, if it will be a boy. So in this case, Lyanna had no instructions from Rhaegar, what she shoud do, how she should name their SON

+

3. she knew, that Rhaegar thought, that Aegon is TPTWP, and his is the song of ice and fire

=

so Lyanna decided to name her own son also Aegon, because Aegon is TPTWP, only now it was Lyanna's Aegon, not Elia's Aegon.

Combination of those three reasons, is why Rhaegar had two sons, both named Aegon. But actually he wasn't the one, who has named his second son. And by the time, when second Aegon was born, the first one was already dead. So there's no any inconsistencies in Rhaegar having two sons, both named Aegon.

P.S. Aside from two Targaryen Kings named Jaehaerys (husband of Queen Alysanne, and husband of Queen Shaera), there was two others Jaehaeryses - Rhaegar's brother, and son of Aegon II.

Edited by Megorova

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37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

By the time when Jon/Aegon was born, his father was already dead (for about two months or so), so the one, who has named him was, most likely, his mother, Lyanna. And by the time, when the Tower of Joy happened, those Kingsguards, that were guarding Lyanna and their newborn true King, they already knew, that Elia and both of her children are dead, same as King Aerys and Rhaegar.

Furthermore, it seems, that Rhaegar was sure, that Elia's Aegon was the Prince that was promised, and that his third child will be a girl. Thus he has chosen a girl's name for his unborn child. So when he died, and Lyanna gave birth to a boy, she had to chose a name for him on her own. No? :huh: And what would be the best/most popular male name for a Targaryen prince? -> Aegon. Like Aegon I Targaryen, called Aegon the Conqueror and Aegon the Dragon, first Targaryen king.

1. By the time, when Jon was born, Lyanna knew, that Elia's Aegon is dead

+

2. according to Rhaegar's will, his child was supposed to be named, probably, Visenya. But because instead of a girl, Lyanna gave birth to a boy, this child ("Jon") was without preliminarily decided/chosen name. And Rhaegar didn't said how to name a baby, if it will be a boy. So in this case, Lyanna had no instructions from Rhaegar, what she shoud do, how she should name their SON

+

3. she knew, that Rhaegar thought, that Aegon is TPTWP, and his is the song of ice and fire

=

so Lyanna decided to name her own son also Aegon, because Aegon is TPTWP, only now it was Lyanna's Aegon, not Elia's Aegon.

Combination of those three reasons, is why Rhaegar had two sons, both named Aegon. But actually he wasn't the one, who has named his second son. And by the time, when second Aegon was born, the first one was already dead. So there's no any inconsistencies in Rhaegar having two sons, both named Aegon.

P.S. Aside from two Targaryen Kings named Jaehaerys (husband of Queen Alysanne, and husband of Queen Shaera), there was two others Jaehaeryses - Rhaegar's brother, and son of Aegon II.

Fair points!

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On 11/21/2018 at 5:40 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The dragon has three heads refers to the three headed banner of House Targaryens.  Daenerys Targaryen is the Child of Three.  She is the one who woke dragons from stone and fulfilled the requirements to be Azor Ahai.  The dragon has three heads is a call back to the three Targaryens who built the seven kingdoms.  The saying basically hints that three Targaryens may rebuild Westeros again.  Daenerys will ride Drogon.  Two others could become dragon riders for Viserion and Rhaegal.

But this is supposed to be something related to the TPtwP prophecy and yet to be fulfilled. That it is the banner was Jorah's rather unconvincing reading.  I think it likely refers to Dany and is quite simple, i.e. unlike dragonriders in the past who can only connect to one dragon, Dany will have control of, or be  bonded to, all three of her dragons. Hence the dragon will have three heads.

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