Lord Varys Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 I guess perhaps dragon skulls also have to go where the plot/destiny wants them to go. Sorry, had to make that one ;-). But switching around the dragon skull size wouldn't be that big of a change. And Meraxes can still be larger than any other dragon but Vhagar and Balerion if she hatched on Dragonstone shortly after Aenar's arrival. As for the oldest skull - realistically the oldest one would be from the first dragon to die on Dragonstone, meaning it might be about 400 years old. One could make that 'about half a millennium' to make it sound grander, but it doesn't make much sense to assume they dragged them around. Even less so considering it was apparently Rhaenyra who first had the notion to actually publicly display dragon skulls (of the dragons previously ridden by her enemies). Lady Footly displayed the remains of the dragons killed at Tumbleton after the Dance, but that was more a tourist attraction. Prior to the Dance the only skull the Targaryens as such had were the one of Meraxes, and I doubt they had any interest in displaying her, pointing out to everyone how the Dornishmen kicked their ass. If I had to guess it is going to turn out that Aegon III collected and subsequently displayed all the skulls of the dead dragons he could find to celebrate his triumph over those dreadful beasts (or deal with his own anxieties). No other king seems to have a motivation to remind the world that the Targaryens lost their ultimate weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 We're told Aenar packed pretty much everything of value when he took off. Perhaps that ancient dragon skull is something very special indeed: the reputed skull of the very first dragon controlled by House Targaryen, the sire/dam of their entire line of dragons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ran said: We're told Aenar packed pretty much everything of value when he took off. Perhaps that ancient dragon skull is something very special indeed: the reputed skull of the very first dragon controlled by House Targaryen, the sire/dam of their entire line of dragons? Yeah, I know that this idea can, technically, work, but as laid out the dragon skulls don't seem to have been that important before the Dance. And the logistics of this thing are as vexing as some of the dragon logistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Quote I know that this idea can, technically, work That's all that's needed to not go around changing a book published 22 years ago. I think the first goal when looking at an issue is "Can this be made sense of without creating more problems?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 That skull is right up their with their sphinxes inside K.L. hahaha apparently the Targaryen's just greatly valued their artifacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, Ran said: That's all that's needed to not go around changing a book published 22 years ago. I think the first goal when looking at an issue is "Can this be made sense of without creating more problems?" I know that this is the best way to go. The Meraxes thing should be considered, though. And it might be worth it to actually mention those most ancient dragon skulls somewhere down the line should they ever feature again in the main series. Once Aegon or Dany or Tyrion get to the Red Keep they could be brought back into the light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 @Ran Jaehaerys taking away the Faith's ecclesiastical courts and sending Barth to treat with the High Septon aren't anywhere in the text. Does that mean TWOIAF is now incorrect on those counts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, The Grey Wolf said: @Ran Jaehaerys taking away the Faith's ecclesiastical courts and sending Barth to treat with the High Septon aren't anywhere in the text. Does that mean TWOIAF is now incorrect on those counts? I'd say at least the Barth thing is questionable now. But that Jaehaerys I made laws taking away the judicial privileges of the Faith is canon since the High Septon mentioned that very fact in AFfC. I don't exactly like the fact that George forgot/refused to tell that story in FaB, especially since he repeatedly mentions the judicial privileges of the Faith confirmed by the Conqueror early in FaB, but that's how it is. Could have been a fine story, after all, giving Septa Rhaella or Septa Maegelle some greater role in the story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSeaSnake Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Another minor difference, House Myatt is removed from the pious houses that Maegor burned the seats of in the westerlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukhasinov Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 On 11/22/2018 at 9:49 AM, Ran said: It's indicated that "every castle" in Dorne was burned thrice in the Dragon's Worth, including Sunspear, and that Visenya had burned it earlier. This, however, was removed from TWoIaF after we pointed out to George the issue that the "ancient" Sandship and so on don't show any sign of the dragon-burning damage seen in Harrenhal and mentioned in other instances. George agreed that was an issue, and in fact expanded on it by providing the maesters several speculative explanations for why the Targaryens left Sunspear alone. This is a problem in the Riverlands, to. Vhagar scourged the houses in the Riverlands that supported Rhaenyra during the Dance, and Vhagar was about as old as Balerion was during the Conquest, so was presumably as large. So why don`t more castles in the Riverlands look like melted candles, like Harrenhal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukhasinov Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 On 11/22/2018 at 11:41 AM, Lord Varys said: Depending how many sentences that were it wouldn't really do anything to the page count, just the framework of the 'Wars' chapter. And if one wanted to do it really sly and all, one could just take out all the burned Sunspear references in the text as written, and then just edit the ending of the chapter a little bit, adding an addendum of 1-2 paragraphs on the relationship of the Targaryen siblings and the Yellow Toad, discussing the curious thing that the seat of House Martell never burned. It could be recounted how they used psychological warfare and all that. Aegon intentionally left Sunspear alone during the Dragon`s Wroth to drive a wedge between the Martells and their vassals who DID have their lands torched. BAM! I just solved your problem. You`re welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 30 minutes ago, Dukhasinov said: This is a problem in the Riverlands, to. Vhagar scourged the houses in the Riverlands that supported Rhaenyra during the Dance, and Vhagar was about as old as Balerion was during the Conquest, so was presumably as large. So why don`t more castles in the Riverlands look like melted candles, like Harrenhal? The list of seats burned in Maegor's time include only a single seat we've seen in ASoIaF, that of House Lychester, and "the small square keep" Arya sees could be rebuilt, could be a second seat that was never burned and is since their only remaining seat, could be the seat of a cadet branch that is not the same, etc. Same with the westerlands seats that Balerion burned. In the Dance, only Castle Darry is a seat we've seen, and that one is also "modest" today. It sounds like it was completely wrecked, and so is another example of a seat that could be plausibly completely rebuilt, could be a new castle bearing the same name, etc. And since it was sacked and torched twice during the books, who knows, maybe some of the blackened stones Jaime thinks will show their damage fading have yet to do so after more than a century and a half, remnants of the original Castle Darry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukhasinov Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 While in The Blacks and the Reds we have King Viserys telling his grandchildren a story about King Jahaerys and Queen Alysane flying their dragons beyond the Wall to break a Wildling incursion, this story is sadly missing from the otherwise richly detailed account of Jahaerys I reign in FaB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Just now, Dukhasinov said: While in The Blacks and the Reds we have King Viserys telling his grandchildren a story about King Jahaerys and Queen Alysane flying their dragons beyond the Wall to break a Wildling incursion, this story is sadly missing from the otherwise richly detailed account of Jahaerys I reign in FaB. It's because it never happened. Viserys was making up a story for the grandkids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukhasinov Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, Ran said: It's because it never happened. Viserys was making up a story for the grandkids. You mean Grandpa didn`t really kill 20 Nazis with a shovel? I feel cheated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 5 hours ago, Lord Varys said: I don't exactly like the fact that George forgot/refused to tell that story in FaB, especially since he repeatedly mentions the judicial privileges of the Faith confirmed by the Conqueror early in FaB, but that's how it is. Could have been a fine story, after all, giving Septa Rhaella or Septa Maegelle some greater role in the story... The thing's 700 pages. How much more do you want?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Redwyne Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Rootes are noted to rule Harroway during Dance of the Dragons, but Alton Butterwell was awarded with it by Maegor after exterminating Harroways, so Butterwells apparently lost it during reign of Jaehaerys, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said: Rootes are noted to rule Harroway during Dance of the Dragons, but Alton Butterwell was awarded with it by Maegor after exterminating Harroways, so Butterwells apparently lost it during reign of Jaehaerys, right? Maybe they got punished for serving Maegor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Redwyne Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, The Wondering Wolf said: Maybe they got punished for serving Maegor. I think that may be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 @Ran Willum Royce is Willam Royce now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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