Jump to content
Lord Varys

[spoilers] Aerea

Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

The name fascinates me. It seems to be a mix of Ageon and Arya, at least that's how I see it. She did seem to have some similarities with Arya with her strong personality. 

I'm listening so I was blown away when I realized this name is Arya.   What's up with that?   Arya has that standout "y" in it.   My thoughts went immediately to Arya.   They're both so angry.    I hope this isn't foreshadowing.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Let's talk about the brave girl here.

And no, the creatures are not firewyrms in my opinion. They are something different. Firewyrms are mundane things known to hang out in the Fourteen Flames before the Doom. What Aerea encountered was post-Doom and deliberately Lovecractian weirdness. I don't think we should try to attach a common name to that.

The worms, at least 1 as big as Septon Barth's ARM, had faces!!!   Faces!!!   Gads that was a fascinating piece.   Aerea died so badly.  Those in charge could not wait to dispose of her body.   What happened to the worms once they came forth???   Bans on ships from Valyria?   Who knew anyone went to Valyria?   This is a big deal with Euron.    

I suspect the Targs knew what the worms were, fire or otherwise.   They sure went straight to blaming a visit to Valyria for this strange strange affliction.   Faces!  Gads!   I don't know about Lovecraftian weirdness, though this certainly fits the bill.  What struck me was the immediate jump to banning to travelers from Valyria.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

The worms, at least 1 as big as Septon Barth's ARM, had faces!!!   Faces!!!   Gads that was a fascinating piece.   Aerea died so badly.  Those in charge could not wait to dispose of her body.   What happened to the worms once they came forth???   Bans on ships from Valyria?   Who knew anyone went to Valyria?   This is a big deal with Euron.    

I suspect the Targs knew what the worms were, fire or otherwise.   They sure went straight to blaming a visit to Valyria for this strange strange affliction.   Faces!  Gads!   I don't know about Lovecraftian weirdness, though this certainly fits the bill.  What struck me was the immediate jump to banning to travelers from Valyria.   

Wow, I just don't read very closely at all, so thanks for catching the fact that it's Aerea (like Arya) and that she is possessed by worms with faces, so a connection with the faceless men as well!!  Wow!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bear Claw said:

Wow, I just don't read very closely at all, so thanks for catching the fact that it's Aerea (like Arya) and that she is possessed by worms with faces, so a connection with the faceless men as well!!  Wow!

Thanks Man, but I didn't catch it at all.   I have been listening to F&B, not reading.  I never pronounced Aerea (it was A-ER-AY-AH).   Arya is the way it was read in Simon Vance's narration!   

Haha!  Faceless Men!   Well done. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Thanks Man, but I didn't catch it at all.   I have been listening to F&B, not reading.  I never pronounced Aerea (it was A-ER-AY-AH).   Arya is the way it was read in Simon Vance's narration!   

Haha!  Faceless Men!   Well done. 

Oh, the pronunciation is confusing me, but I do love her story. I wish we knew more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I suspect the Targs knew what the worms were, fire or otherwise.   They sure went straight to blaming a visit to Valyria for this strange strange affliction.   Faces!  Gads!   I don't know about Lovecraftian weirdness, though this certainly fits the bill.  What struck me was the immediate jump to banning to travelers from Valyria.   

My takeaway from Barth's account is that he's the one who told Jaehaerys to ban travel to and from Valyria.  As Barth explains, he deduced this from posing the question "where did Balerion take Aerea" rather than "where did Aerea take Balerion."  If that's the case, it doesn't suggest the Targs had any specialized knowledge of the worms nor Valyria.

I suppose it could be posited that Barth is "covering" for the existence of such Targ knowledge, and in actuality it was Jaehaerys or Alysanne that informed him.  But then again Barth does specifically state he never told the king, queen, or Rhaena.  That would would seem like too much of an outright - and unnecessary - lie that would, well, at least be disheartening in terms of Barth's character.

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

The wound Balerion took seemed quite severe though, and from something larger than a firewyrm. That leads the possibility that maybe he was infested as well, but kept trucking after they came out, being much larger and tougher, or even that wild dragons might exist in Valyria still.

The former seems like the simplest explanation - that Balerion was infected with at least one much firewyrm (or "worm with faces," whatever), that also must have been much larger.  I suppose wild dragons are possible too, but I don't like that because one would have to wonder why they apparently never tried to leave Valyria.

ETA:  Oh, also just wanted to point out that that illustration of Aerea dying (on page 249 of my [American] copy) is awesome, and awesomely horrifying.

Edited by DMC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I'm listening so I was blown away when I realized this name is Arya.   What's up with that?   Arya has that standout "y" in it.   My thoughts went immediately to Arya.   They're both so angry.    I hope this isn't foreshadowing.   

I don't get how it would be. I think it is perhaps an inversion of Arya hiding inside Balerion. Or maybe Rhaegal will whisk her away at some point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

What happened to the worms once they came forth??? 

They died in the bath of ice. Ice killed the fire creatures. Which I think is a pretty huge thing. Aerea's death is the only time ice and fire and mentioned in the whole book. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

I don't get how it would be. I think it is perhaps an inversion of Arya hiding inside Balerion. Or maybe Rhaegal will whisk her away at some point.

Well, Arya will have to get back to Westeros eventually, and what better way than to hide than as one of the slaves that will likely be sailing with Dany to Westeros. 

Also, let us not forget that Arya caught the black cat, Balerion. 

12 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

Wow, I just don't read very closely at all, so thanks for catching the fact that it's Aerea (like Arya) and that she is possessed by worms with faces, so a connection with the faceless men as well!!  Wow!

I saw that too. Arya caught the black cat, Balerion, which was called the "real king of this castle," and Aerea rode Balerion the Black Dread, the dragon of at least two Targaryen kings before she mounted him, three after when Viserys mounted him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/24/2018 at 3:05 AM, Curled Finger said:

I'm listening so I was blown away when I realized this name is Arya.   What's up with that?   Arya has that standout "y" in it.   My thoughts went immediately to Arya.   They're both so angry.    I hope this isn't foreshadowing.   

There are several characters in the books that portray Arya like aspects, while another sister fits Sansa more. This is a pattern. Visenya - Rhaenys = fighting -  fondness of singing/stories. Aerea - Rhaella: stubborn and loud - shy, timid, obedient (and yes, the name). But even in later generations you have Targ females that are pictishly small, long faced, short-cropped hair, wild, mystery knight, etc... The "arya" type sometimes outlives everyone else or dies of old age, sometimes dies horribly, sometimes heroically, and sometimes she births heirs. In other words, they're all Aryas and their story is a "what-could-happen-if-..." imo

Edited by sweetsunray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/23/2018 at 3:27 PM, The Sleeper said:

My understanding was that the dragonlords were sorcerers. Or at least the sorcerers were members of the dragonlord houses. I mean that is how they got to be dragonlords in the first place, right? Obviously not every member of the houses would be sorcerers but that would be their focus. That would have been where power stemmed from in Valyria so they would try to develop it and hoard it.

Dragons would have been among their first and more successful experiments. And I am becoming increasingly convinced that they bound themselves to dragons using blood-magic which changed them. 

So I also think that whatever is there in Valyria now is their experiments and magic gone rampant. 

Yes... These fireworms with faces seemed to live inside the blood and wanted to crawl out, as if they wanted to get away from Aerea. It is possible that Aerea was infested by these "worms" while visiting Valyria, but I think it may be something else instead: the dragonlords are often called "dragons", they seem to have a higher body temperature (which imo may be the reason why they have a better protection against certain viral diseases), and there's talk of blood magic, and that somehow helps with dragonlords bonding with a dragon... It's "in the blood" right?

Now what would happen if somehow the "dragon bonding spell" was reversed? What if whatever spell that bonded fire and humans to make dragonlords gets reversed? Wouldn't that cause whatever fire creature got bonded to Valyrian dragonlord blood to want to separate from its host?

IMO they had already opened the door to some Lovecraftian creature ages before the Doom. They believed they could be a host to it, control it and use it to their own personal benefit, but the escaped slaves with sorcerer powers figured it out and undo the binding spell there. All dragonlord families still there die a death like Aerea with the "magic" wanting to escape their bodies, even the sorcerers amongst them. Since those who kept the 14 under control also die along, the 14 vulcans go berserk, and the creatures prior in the blood have a superb environment to survive in and grow larger to say attack a dragon like Balerion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/23/2018 at 11:01 PM, Mrs.Grumpy said:

What I wonder is what did she wanted to say with “I never...” ? What?  Never thought you would come back?

"I never [meant to fly to Valyria]". Much later Septon Barth implied that it wasn't Aerea who directed Balerion to fly to a certain place, but that Balerion took her along as a passenger, gonig where he intended to go. In that case, "I never..." can be easily completed with "I never intended to fly to Valyria".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found it interesting that after more than 150 years living in Westeros, Balerion could still remember his birthplace. It's like dog memories times 100.

In terms of the wound it got, I think it was from the same creature that infested Aerea with its eggs or spawn. Definitely Lovecraftian. Something all those little creatures may have grown up to be if they hadn't died in the ice bath. fire v. ice strikes again 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I found it interesting that after more than 150 years living in Westeros, Balerion could still remember his birthplace. It's like dog memories times 100.

In terms of the wound it got, I think it was from the same creature that infested Aerea with its eggs or spawn. Definitely Lovecraftian. Something all those little creatures may have grown up to be if they hadn't died in the ice bath. fire v. ice strikes again 

It's like the memory of sea turtles who cross whole oceans to return to for example lay eggs at the beach where they themselves hatched 100 years ago. Or frogs making their way back to the pond of birth. Or birds trekking from Egypt to Scandinavia, or salmon swimming upriver to spawn (and die) in the same river where they were spawned. Or weirder yet, eels that know their way between Belgium and Mexican Gulf, while it's a once in a lifetime trek. Fish, reptilian, amphibian (and bird) memory is way better than any mammal's when it comes to "birth place"

Edited by sweetsunray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The question to ask is why Balerion should want to go to Valyria. He didn't do that while he was riderless, so why go there with a rider?

It doesn't make all that much sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like more proof that they're responsive to the magical currents of prophecy and destiny, and go where they are supposed to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Aerea supposedly wanted to fly 'far, far away'. Valyria qualifies as that. And perhaps she and interest to go there ... before she learned how it actually was. If she had a strong desire to fly 'home' and Balerion sensed that then, in a sense, he brought them both 'home' because Valyria is not only his birthplace but also the true home of House Targaryen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I'm not seeing is people talking about what Aerea said while Barth and Benifer were treating her. More than merely seeing the fleshwarped monstrosities that the dragonlords wrought (for I am of the opinion that the sorcerer princes and dragonlords were one and the same, since Valyria is based on Melniboné), she learned something. More than just fireworms and the things with faces dwell in Valyra. Varys recalls that the sorcerer who castrated him spoke to a voice in the flamesAnd Valyria's been burning ever since The Doom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, HamSandLich said:

What I'm not seeing is people talking about what Aerea said while Barth and Benifer were treating her. More than merely seeing the fleshwarped monstrosities that the dragonlords wrought (for I am of the opinion that the sorcerer princes and dragonlords were one and the same, since Valyria is based on Melniboné), she learned something. More than just fireworms and the things with faces dwell in Valyra. Varys recalls that the sorcerer who castrated him spoke to a voice in the flamesAnd Valyria's been burning ever since The Doom.

The flame Varys heard a voice from was a blue flame, and thus not necessarily linked with Valyria. I also have to point out the Unsullied burn their parts on an altar, and they have a type of warrior goddess (very much grafted like Athena). And then there's a scene where Dany chops up a snake, chars it above a brazier and then feeds it to the baby dragons in Qarth. Male private parts have the nickname of one-eyed snake, and her gods could be said to be the dragons that are growing. All three scenes or rituals are parallels. It basically is an offer, birthing or strengthening a god/force/creature/belief. But in each version the force/god/belief/creature differs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/24/2018 at 4:49 PM, Fire Eater said:

Well, Arya will have to get back to Westeros eventually, and what better way than to hide than as one of the slaves that will likely be sailing with Dany to Westeros. 

Also, let us not forget that Arya caught the black cat, Balerion. 

I saw that too. Arya caught the black cat, Balerion, which was called the "real king of this castle," and Aerea rode Balerion the Black Dread, the dragon of at least two Targaryen kings before she mounted him, three after when Viserys mounted him. 

I like this a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×