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Damsel in Distress

Summer vs. Jaime Lannister

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Just now, Widowmaker 811 said:

Young love.  Never thinking how implausible it is.  It's the feelings he has without regard for whether his injury will get in the way.

It might be an ugly scene when that realization comes to him, or if Meera isn't interested.

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6 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Young love.  Never thinking how implausible it is.  It's the feelings he has without regard for whether his injury will get in the way.

I was actually talking about killing Stark enemies. But then again he'll probably be able to get them to kill themselves. So he's good in that regard. 

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4 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Bloodraven is mostly corpse and tree. Bran is barely ten. I doubt he would go after Jaime, but should the opportunity arise... 

I'm still of the mind that Bran's body will never leave the cave, although his mind will in the form of birds, beasts and perhaps a human of two. But I still think that once he has gotten to that point, he won't be interested in settling old scores with Jaime or the Boltons. He has more important things to do.

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1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

You expect too much from Bran.  Jon is older than Bran and revenge never became irrelevant to him.  Not even when his vows forbade it.  Remember what he did to Janos Slynt?  He killed his sworn brother for a minor crime and let another sworn brother with greater crimes off the hook.  There was no justice there.  Just cold-blooded, icey revenge and treason.  Bran is not going to be better.  

I think he will. Jon is thinking on a grander scale than most of his fellows, since he recognizes that the real threat is the undead, not the wildlings. But Bran is on a different level altogether. Bran views the entire world, both past and present, and mayhaps even the future. He is now facing the terror that the 3EC showed him in the Land of Always Winter. His perspective is far beyond lords or kings or slights from the past. He is gearing up to defeat the threat to all mankind, and I strongly doubt that he will survive this contest. Note that he hasn't thought of or dreamed about Jaime or the "golden man" since before leaving Winterfell.

Jon did not kill Slynt out of revenge for his father or a "minor crime." Refusing to obey a direct order from the Lord Commander is treason. Jon gave him several opportunities to change his mind and Slynt just blew him off. Any lesser response from Jon would have seriously undermined his ability to lead, which was on shaky ground to begin with.

What other brother with greater crimes did Jon let off the hook? Mance? Mance's situation is unique. He is Stannis' captive, not Jon's, and he has the protection of Melisandre. Jon is using Mance to get Arya back, but that is Stannis' objective as much as Jon's. And again, Jon is not Bran.

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That Jaime and Robert Strong are important in Bran's plot is clear from that green vision.  A great possibility, Bran wargs Robert Strong to kill Jaime.  Jaime is killed and Bran continues his path of madness.  He sends the giant to kill Tommen and Cersei.

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On 11/25/2018 at 1:47 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

I am looking forward to the inevitable fatal confrontation between the Lannisters and the Starks.  Bran almost remembered who crippled him during this scene with the Reeds.  He will eventually put the puzzle together.  He has a fear of Jaime Lannister.  He will learn why in the future.  Bran Stark vs. Jaime Lannister.  It will be an interesting battle.  It is a confrontation that so many of us have wanted to see for a long time.  Summer, warged by Bran, against Jaime Lannister.  

Bran will know the truth and it's going to be bloody.  Bran is getting ever darker.  Maybe he takes control of Sandor and sends him on to fight Gregor.

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On 11/27/2018 at 2:40 AM, Bowen 747 said:

That Jaime and Robert Strong are important in Bran's plot is clear from that green vision.  A great possibility, Bran wargs Robert Strong to kill Jaime.  Jaime is killed and Bran continues his path of madness.  He sends the giant to kill Tommen and Cersei.

I don't doubt that Bran will try to kill Jaime.  But Bran is not guaranteed to come out on top.  I despise Jaime and am not a big fan of Bran though.  I don't care who comes out on top as long as they do a great deal of damage to the Lannisters and the Starks. 

Bran's own body dies in that cave while his mind is in Robert Strong.  He won't be able to come back and he is condemned to live what little life remains in Robert Strong.  He got to kill Jaime but he loses his life too.

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On 11/25/2018 at 8:01 AM, Trefayne said:

I can't really explain why, but I get the strong feeling that Bran is going to forgive Jaime.

I agree. Bran is much more even-tempered than the rest of the Starks, and I think making peace with his past with be instrumental in elevating his mind to a higher level. I suspect that Jaime's habit of suppressing his guilt is about to run its course as well.

I also wonder if Bloodraven is tampering with Bran's memory in order to keep Jaime alive. Perhaps he has a role to play in the wars to come.

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I agree. Bran is much more even-tempered than the rest of the Starks, and I think making peace with his past with be instrumental in elevating his mind to a higher level. I suspect that Jaime's habit of suppressing his guilt is about to run its course as well.

I'm in the same boat here. Yes, Arya and - to a certain degree - Jon let themselves be ruled by revenge, but I think Bran will not fall into that trap. Maybe not out of human reasons, but because of the greater picture. Or maybe, because all will become kind of irrelevant once you are a allseeing tree.

Beside: Jaime's habit has already run its course, as we can see in the dreams he has, especially the one with his Kingsguard brothers, Rhaegar ... and Ned.

Edited by Morte
typo

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I agree. Bran is much more even-tempered than the rest of the Starks, and I think making peace with his past with be instrumental in elevating his mind to a higher level. I suspect that Jaime's habit of suppressing his guilt is about to run its course as well.

 

23 minutes ago, Morte said:

I'm in the same boat here. Yes, Arya and - to a certain degree - Jon let themselves be ruled by revenge, but I think Bran will not fall into that trap. Maybe not out of human reasons, but because of the greater picture. Or maybe, because all will become kind of irrelevant once you are a allseeing tree.

Beside: Jaime's habit has already run its course, as we can see in the dreams he has, especially the one with his Kingsguard brothers, Rhaegar ... and Ned.

 

My feelings as well. Bran is lashing out from time to time and doing some mean things out of frustration and growing pains that he won't get to experience as a normal preadolescent, but I think that he has the temperament to go beyond all that. At least I hope so. GRRM is purposely doling out his story in breadcrumbs, so I want the payoff to be good after all of this stalling.

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On 11/26/2018 at 3:11 PM, John Suburbs said:

I'm still of the mind that Bran's body will never leave the cave, although his mind will in the form of birds, beasts and perhaps a human of two. But I still think that once he has gotten to that point, he won't be interested in settling old scores with Jaime or the Boltons. He has more important things to do.

He wouldn't be a Stark if he did this.  The north remembers is about revenge.  Bran will do what he can to get his revenge on Jaime even if he has to betray Brynden to do it.  

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36 minutes ago, Son of Man said:

The north remembers is about revenge.

No, that's not even half the meaning of "the North remembers." It also refers to gratitude for help given, favors done. It refers to the whole web of obligations woven over time between families and individuals. It's the responsibilities of guest right, and so on. It's the shared history of the North as its own kingdom.

Don't sell the North short! They're not merely tough and efficient killers. And Bran has the potential to become truly awesome, like so many of his namesakes from the past.

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4 hours ago, Trefayne said:

My feelings as well. Bran is lashing out from time to time and doing some mean things out of frustration and growing pains that he won't get to experience as a normal preadolescent, but I think that he has the temperament to go beyond all that. At least I hope so. GRRM is purposely doling out his story in breadcrumbs, so I want the payoff to be good after all of this stalling.

Well, at least he does reflect about his more mean actions and clearly sees them as wrong, even if he tries to justify them before his own eyes, so hope is not lost here.

Also, at least one of the Stark children has to grown out of bad habits (and not deeper into them), no? ;) *fingers crossed*

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:42 AM, Son of Man said:

He wouldn't be a Stark if he did this.  The north remembers is about revenge.  Bran will do what he can to get his revenge on Jaime even if he has to betray Brynden to do it.  

He won't be a Stark anymore. Just like Brynden is no longer a Targaryen. They are the last greenseers. Their old lives are past. They are now of the wood, the earth, all living things... Their focus is on saving mankind, not settling old scores.

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On 11/24/2018 at 10:47 PM, Damsel in Distress said:

I am looking forward to the inevitable fatal confrontation between the Lannisters and the Starks.  Bran almost remembered who crippled him during this scene with the Reeds.  He will eventually put the puzzle together.  He has a fear of Jaime Lannister.  He will learn why in the future.  Bran Stark vs. Jaime Lannister.  It will be an interesting battle.  It is a confrontation that so many of us have wanted to see for a long time.  Summer, warged by Bran, against Jaime Lannister.  

The "Armored like the sun character" is Oberyn. The Face of the hound is Gregor. Their fight helped birth Bob Strong 

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On 12/1/2018 at 9:43 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I agree. Bran is much more even-tempered than the rest of the Starks, and I think making peace with his past with be instrumental in elevating his mind to a higher level. I suspect that Jaime's habit of suppressing his guilt is about to run its course as well.

I also wonder if Bloodraven is tampering with Bran's memory in order to keep Jaime alive. Perhaps he has a role to play in the wars to come.

Bran is more even-tempered than Jon and Arya but he will seek revenge.  Nobody crippled Jon and look what he did to Janos Slynt.  Jon killed Slynt for revenge.  Bran will go after Jaime and I can't wait to see it.  

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On 11/25/2018 at 10:01 AM, Trefayne said:

I can't really explain why, but I get the strong feeling that Bran is going to forgive Jaime.

I sort of agree. And by “sort” I only mean that it might not be forgiveness necessarily, but Bran will at the very least be in a position to exact revenge/get justice by punishing Jaime somehow, but we won’t. And that’s because...

5 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

He won't be a Stark anymore. Just like Brynden is no longer a Targaryen. They are the last greenseers. Their old lives are past. They are now of the wood, the earth, all living things... Their focus is on saving mankind, not settling old scores.

of this ^^. 

Wow, it is true, there is a first time for everything! I kinda agree w/ you here, and I think that may be a first? 

I think it may not be exactly as you propose, but the bottom line will be the same. 

38 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Bran is more even-tempered than Jon and Arya but he will seek revenge.  Nobody crippled Jon and look what he did to Janos Slynt.  Jon killed Slynt for revenge.  Bran will go after Jaime and I can't wait to see it.  

Absolutely! 

/s

:rofl:

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On 11/26/2018 at 3:11 PM, John Suburbs said:

I'm still of the mind that Bran's body will never leave the cave, although his mind will in the form of birds, beasts and perhaps a human of two. But I still think that once he has gotten to that point, he won't be interested in settling old scores with Jaime or the Boltons. He has more important things to do.

There's little drama in that.  I'm leaning towards Bran choosing revenge.  

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12 hours ago, Enuma Elish said:

There's little drama in that.  I'm leaning towards Bran choosing revenge.  

True, it would be fun, and satisfying. But Martin rarely works this way. Arya does not get to kill Joffrey, even though he's on her death list. (In fact, there are only two on the list that she does kill, Polliver and 

Spoiler

Raff

Robb does not get to kill Joffrey either, although Jon does get Slynt -- not as revenge but for disobeying a command.

Sandor does not get to kill Gregor (not yet, anyway). 

Dany does not get to kill Robert or Ned or Tywin or any of the lords who deprived her of her birthright.

Oberyn does not get to kill Tywin. Tyrion does, however, which is the only example of revenge as poetic justice that I can think of.

 

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Bran putting the greater collective good above the just deserts of the individual or smaller groups is a theme of his arc. Probably the theme of his arc. Conveyed most succinctly here.

Quote

In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us."

She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Menwould hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

It must be explored and brought to climax, meaning he has to first think on revenge and probably even try it out. Likely in a revenge attempt he'll even cause unforseen collateral damage, as it seems the Children did with the Others.

Bloodraven is the prototype, he is the most bitter man in Westeros and despite what he says is still fighting the Blackfyre Rebellion. Bran will see first hand the destruction Bloodraven's inability to put aside the Blackfyre Rebellion will cause.

It all culminates with Bran forgiving Jaime as per Ned's look into his eyes and judge quote. But that is only half the story, the judgement is also being prepped in Jaime's story (which will probably be where we get it first in real time).

Quote

"If this is true, how is it no one knows?"

"The knights of the Kingsguard are sworn to keep the king's secrets. Would you have me break my oath?" Jaime laughed. "Do you think the noble Lord of Winterfell wanted to hear my feeble explanations? Such an honorable man. He only had to look at me to judge me guilty." Jaime lurched to his feet, the water running cold down his chest. "By what right does the wolf judge the lion? By what right?" A violent shiver took him, and he smashed his stump against the rim of the tub as he tried to climb out.

Quote

Jaime misliked those eyes. They reminded him of the day at King's Landing when Ned Stark had found him seated on the Iron Throne.

Quote

He remembered Eddard Stark, riding the length of Aerys's throne room wrapped in silence. Only his eyes had spoken; a lord's eyes, cold and grey and full of judgment.

The wolf will judge the lion, and prove to be not so cold.

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