Cache at the Fist of Frist Men- Coldhands or Ben Stark

[Lady Winter Rose]

I always found whole situation in ACOK quite weird - Ghost get upset, Jon founds quality cloak burried with something that happend to be extremely valuable for some Watchmen's lives - but could cache found by Jon really be hand in help? Or merely a message of some kind? After all, cache isn't as useful untill White Walkers & Others come and does person who burried it there knows what situation would befall Night Watch?

 

LOL: Question in the title is: Is Coldhands really good answer for person who left the cache? We know Ben was at Craster and Craster lied to NW about Others and Ben. Fist isn't that far.

[zandru]

Could have been Lord Bryndan Rivers, way back when. Lots of highborn Nights Watch, back in the old days. The stuff didn't appear to have been recently buried.

[Lady Winter Rose]

26 minutes ago, zandru said:

 The stuff didn't appear to have been recently buried.

It was burried recently.

[Clegane'sPup]

56 minutes ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I always found whole situation in ACOK quite weird - Ghost get upset, Jon founds quality cloak burried with something that happend to be extremely valuable for some Watchmen's lives - but could cache found by Jon really be hand in help? Or merely a message of some kind? After all, cache isn't as useful untill White Walkers & Others come and does person who burried it there knows what situation would befall Night Watch?

 

LOL: Question in the title is: Is Coldhands really good answer for person who left the cache? We know Ben was at Craster and Craster lied to NW about Others and Ben. Fist isn't that far.

On first read I was under the impression Benjen left the cache. Today I think it doesn't matter because the purpose of the cache was to later reveal that it is the dragonglass/obsidian that kills/ melts the Others.

A Clash of Kings - Jon IV        Jon brushed the loose soil away to reveal a rounded bundle perhaps two feet across. He jammed his fingers down around the edges and worked it loose. When he pulled it free, whatever was inside shifted and clinked. Treasure, he thought, but the shapes were wrong to be coins, and the sound was wrong for metal.        A length of frayed rope bound the bundle together. Jon unsheathed his dagger and cut it, groped for the edges of the cloth, and pulled. The bundle turned, and its contents spilled out onto the ground, glittering dark and bright. He saw a dozen knives, leaf-shaped spearheads, numerous arrowheads. Jon picked up a dagger blade, featherlight and shiny black, hiltless. Torchlight ran along its edge, a thin orange line that spoke of razor sharpness. Dragonglass. What the maesters call obsidian. Had Ghost uncovered some ancient cache of the children of the forest, buried here for thousands of years? The Fist of the First Men was an old place, only . . .       Beneath the dragonglass was an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze. Jon shook the dirt from inside it, and a stream of arrowheads fell out. He let them fall, and pulled up a corner of the cloth the weapons had been wrapped in, rubbing it between his fingers. Good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotted. It could not have been long in the ground. And it was dark. He seized a handful and pulled it close to the torch. Not dark. Black./

As I read it the cache was wrapped in a piece of damp good thick double weave wool but not rotted black cloth.

Did Benjen plant the cache?  If I have to chose I pick Benjen over Coldhands.

Is martin gonna bring Benjen back into the story?

Considering that at the end of DwD it is revealed that the CotF do exist and that the CotF did use dragonglass/obsidian I would speculate that Benjen will resurface.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

19 minutes ago, zandru said:

Could have been Lord Bryndan Rivers, way back when. Lots of highborn Nights Watch, back in the old days. The stuff didn't appear to have been recently buried.

I think it's the description of the cloak that rules Bloodraven out (for me).

Beneath the dragonglass was an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze. Jon shook the dirt from inside it, and a stream of arrowheads fell out. He let the fall, and pulled up a corner of the cloth the weapons had been wrapped in, rubbing it between his fingers. Good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotted. It could not have been long in the ground. And it was dark. He seized a handful and pulled it close to the torch. Not dark. Black. (Jon IV, ACoK 34)

The cloak could easily have been taken from the body of a brother of the Night's Watch who was recently killed beyond the Wall. 

I don't know who it is and I tend to lean toward Benjen because of something Qhorin Halfhand tells Jon about the cold winds rising.

"The cold winds are rising. Mormont feared as much. Benjen Stark felt is as well. Dead men walk and the trees have eyes again. Why should we balk at wargs and giants?" (Jon VII, ACoK 53,)

Whatever Benjen and Mormont discussed before he left the Wall, he left knowing more than what we have been told. To me, it sounds like Benjen's mission may have extended beyond finding Waymar Royce or torturing info out of whatever wildlings he encountered. 

 

[zandru]

3 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

It was burried recently.

You're right, and thanks also to Clegane's Pup and Alexis-something-Rose for pointing that out! I remembered it just the opposite.

Benjen is a possibility, then; maybe Mance Rayder? We know the "Horn of Winter" that he was flaunting was merely an old giant's horn - possibly he'd hidden the real one? Do we know how long Coldhands has been around?

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

2 hours ago, zandru said:

You're right, and thanks also to Clegane's Pup and Alexis-something-Rose for pointing that out! I remembered it just the opposite.

Benjen is a possibility, then; maybe Mance Rayder? We know the "Horn of Winter" that he was flaunting was merely an old giant's horn - possibly he'd hidden the real one? Do we know how long Coldhands has been around?

 

Since the wildlings don't seem to know how to kill the WW's, including Mance who says as much to Jon, I do not think it could be anyone like that.  It's gotta be someone like Benjen or Coldhands.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

2 hours ago, zandru said:

Do we know how long Coldhands has been around?

This is all we have on him.

Bran shivered again. "The ranger . . ."
"He cannot come."
"They'll kill him."
"No. They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you." (Bran II, ADWD 13)

We don't know how old he is, how long he has been Coldhands.

[zandru]

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you." (Bran II, ADWD 13)

We don't know how old he is, how long he has been Coldhands.

All right! If one of the Children of the Forest says it was "a long time ago", then it was centuries, maybe millenia. If so, thus ends the "Benjen theory". And, I must add, the cold really has marvelous preservative powers.

[The Sleeper]

4 hours ago, zandru said:

All right! If one of the Children of the Forest says it was "a long time ago", then it was centuries, maybe millenia. If so, thus ends the "Benjen theory". And, I must add, the cold really has marvelous preservative powers.

Coldhands eyes aren't blue-grey, they are black and I imagine death would brighten the color not darken it. Also I think Bran would recognise his uncle or at the very least, think that there was something familiar about the wight either in its posture or voice after being in its company for so long. Then again he's dead so who knows. Still I think Benjen is almost ruled out as Coldhands. 

[zandru]

8 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Coldhands eyes aren't blue-grey, they are black and I imagine death would brighten the color not darken it.

Well, death might cause the pupils to dilate completely as the iris muscles relax, giving a totally black eye appearance. On the other hand, the dramatically increased aperture size, in a snowy environment, would be blinding. Think of when you've left the opthalmologist on a sunny day with your pupils dilated. George RR often refers to people's "black" or "dark" eyes, and I honestly doesn't know if he means the eyes are brown, really dark gray (grey?), or merely hooded by heavy brows.

Nonetheless, I agree with you that Coldhands isn't Benjen, and I think I recall GRRM agreeing that he isn't.

[Lady Winter Rose]

I think Martin doesn't know people can't have black eyes or dark grey for that matter...

 

Did Martin ever mentioned that cache at any interview?

[Lord Lannister]

Well given vibrant purple eyes are a thing, I think it's safe to say genetics in this world only bear a passing resemblance to our own. 

[Fencer]

While I don't have an answer to the question, one possibility I've always considered is that the cache was planted by the Children themselves.  Assuming they still consider the NW an ally, but don't want to reveal themselves to humans, they may have taken an opportunity to provide some aid.  No strong supporting evidence for this, but then, I don't think there is much in the way of any clues on this mystery.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'm gonna say Coldhands. Ghost leads Jon to the cache. Why? The easiest explanation is Bloodraven. 

[Chris Mormont]

Coldhands and the Children of the Forest are working together, but the scent on the cloak is what attracted Ghost.  Therefore, I am going to guess Coldhands did the burying in his own old cloak.  Perhaps Bloodraven, told them to bury it to give the Watch a fighting chance or better yet, the knowledge of how to fight the WW.