Arthur Peres Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 The Hornwood sucession crises, was a minor plot that was never deal it, Robb went on to have much bigger problems and the question in hand became irrelevant, but what if he had to deal with the issue, who do you think he would favor? who do you think was the best choice ? and who would you favor? The options being the Manderlys or Umber through marriage with Donella, The manderlys offered Wyllis and Wyman, and the Umbers offered Mors. The Glovers, by legitimazing Larence Snow Tallharst by lady Berena Hornwood Flints and Karstarks by the female line. And the Boltons, Roose has no claims, but the lands are "adjoin, and Roose Bolton is not one to overlook such a chance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 I would legitimize the Hornwood bastard, with no Hornwood heir and his father claiming him as his own it also seemed he was grooming him to be his heir so I choose Larence Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Yeah, legitimizing the bastard would be the best option as much as Catelyn and Lady Hornwood wouldn't like it. You could toss Lady Hornwood a bone by having Ser Rodrik marry her and serve as castellan to keep an eye on the situation given the various rival claimants to the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Legitimize Larence Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 While I am partial to legitimizing Larence Snow, as he has "wits and courage," but I think I would keep that particular plan in my back pocket at the time in the book when it's presented. Both Tallhart children from Berena are Hornwoods by blood. Realistically any option would need a regent for at least a few years to help smooth out the transition and fend off the Boltons. So I'd guess my solution would be to have Lady Hornwood adopt Beren (I think the older brother is heir to Torrhen's Square now) with Wylis Manderly as a regent / military adviser / what have you. Gonna need to reward the Manderlys for helping out, so possible a betrothal with Wylla and Beren or something similar. Maybe Ser Rodrik to marry Lady Hornwood and help foster Beren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 Seems most people here would go with the soulution that Bran choose. I think that Robb would go with the Tallharts because they have the better claim (being the closest blood related to the last lord), and I think Robb could choose them if forced. Leobald Tallhart could protect the lands, like Rodrik did, he would be a good regent for Brandon Tallhart, that was willing to take the Hornwood name. They are also far away from the Tallhart sucession, Benfred and Eddara comming first. Legitimazing Bastards seems to be troublesome, and not that common. On the other hand I would choose the Kartstarks if I was in Robb's position .Rickards sons died to protect him from Jaime, Harrion was captured, and Rickard was the second one to swear fealty to King Robb. He needed a reward for his sacrifice, either changing hostages for Harrion freedom or giving him the Hornwoods lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Marry Larence to a girl coming from the female line. Alys perhaps since Karstarks are told to have a claim and they were going to have a Hornwood marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrresistable Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 If Lord Hornwood wanted his bastard to succeed him, i'd let Lady Berena Hornwood take over until Snow reaches his majority / comes of age she can finish grooming him for leadership The problem is she has 2 sons of Hornwood blood & would want them to inherit, so she might have him kill him killed off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Depends on really. From a primogeniture perspective it should obviously be Berena but from a political perspective it might be best to give it to Laurence given how it will prevent the Tallharts from essentially getting two fiefs under one lord. I think its a poor strategy to allow bannermen to accumulate several fiefs to a single lord and that would be risk here as Berena would most likely have her oldest son, also now the Tallhart heir, inherit the lands of Hornwood. As such, with the war raging, I imagine that I, if I was Robb, would look to how my relation was with these two potential claimants. If the Tallharts did me good service and showed me loyalty, then they can have Hornwood as is their legal rights. The good stuff with these two lands is that they are not bordering each other to form a single large fief, which I think would be useful if the Tallharts would later cause problem for me or my heirs. But if I feel the Tallharts would drag their feet or there would be something below a good personal relation between myself and the Tallharts, then it would go to Laurence who I would legitimize. Thus placing him before the Tallharts according to primogenture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Grant the castle to one of Berena's sons, and split the land between Manderly and Bolton. This situation everyone wins except for the Karstarks and Glovers. In this situation, Robb has given his two most powerful and ambitious vassals even more power, and in turn he has shot himself in the leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 4 hours ago, The Young Maester said: Grant the castle to one of Berena's sons, and split the land between Manderly and Bolton. This situation everyone wins except for the Karstarks and Glovers. In this situation, Robb has given his two most powerful and ambitious vassals even more power, and in turn he has shot himself in the leg. Are you not just setting this up for a new war with this? Bolton and Manderly are not friends, but they each just got 50% of the pie. And Berena's son got the place designed to dominate the surrounding lands, but he didn't get any lands, but he's got his kin in the Tallharts and the best stronghold in the area to conduct operations from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 On 11/26/2018 at 1:15 PM, Universal Sword Donor said: While I am partial to legitimizing Larence Snow, as he has "wits and courage," but I think I would keep that particular plan in my back pocket at the time in the book when it's presented. Both Tallhart children from Berena are Hornwoods by blood. Realistically any option would need a regent for at least a few years to help smooth out the transition and fend off the Boltons. So I'd guess my solution would be to have Lady Hornwood adopt Beren (I think the older brother is heir to Torrhen's Square now) with Wylis Manderly as a regent / military adviser / what have you. Gonna need to reward the Manderlys for helping out, so possible a betrothal with Wylla and Beren or something similar. Maybe Ser Rodrik to marry Lady Hornwood and help foster Beren. Sounds pretty good, plus have Lady Hornwood well-guarded on the way back from the Harvest so Ramsay can’t do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 If I was Robb I would hold the Hornwood lands until Rickon was of age to marry Manderlys granddaughter then I would give the lands to Rickon. Forming a new house Stark of Hornwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Stormking902 said: If I was Robb I would hold the Hornwood lands until Rickon was of age to marry Manderlys granddaughter then I would give the lands to Rickon. Forming a new house Stark of Hornwood. I like this idea. I always imagined that Rickon would grow up to be some badass Northern Lord with a thick Viking beard. Fucking wenches wherever he went. Something akin to Brandon (older), but much more badass with a touch of clansmen culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 9 hours ago, Stormking902 said: If I was Robb I would hold the Hornwood lands until Rickon was of age to marry Manderlys granddaughter then I would give the lands to Rickon. Forming a new house Stark of Hornwood. That would really piss off at least two super close houses, Glover’s and Tallharts. Most likely the Manderlys too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 10 hours ago, Stormking902 said: If I was Robb I would hold the Hornwood lands until Rickon was of age to marry Manderlys granddaughter then I would give the lands to Rickon. Forming a new house Stark of Hornwood. Ned is imprisoned, Robb calls the banners and the Hornwoods respond seeing son and heir killed in the process and Robb's reward for such service is to remove the Hornwoods from their seat of power and give it to a younger brother who did nothing in the war? Great way to lose support in the future. There are plenty of Hornwood heirs about "With no direct heir, there are sure to be many claimants contending for the Hornwood lands. The Tallharts, Flints, and Karstarks all have ties to House Hornwood through the female line, and the Glovers are fostering Lord Harys's bastard at Deepwood Motte." The issue is its not straightforward (I'm guessing it's similar to the Great Council of 101, oldest sister having no children or daughters younger sister having sons etc.) rather than zero heirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 On 11/27/2018 at 5:14 AM, Corvo the Crow said: Marry Larence to a girl coming from the female line. Alys perhaps since Karstarks are told to have a claim and they were going to have a Hornwood marriage. Alys was already promised to Daryn. With the prejudice against bastards, and she being older than him, would the Karstarks acept such a match, when they already have their own claim on the land ? Alys is also the probable heir to Karhold, since Harrion is imprisoned, she can probably get better matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 12/4/2018 at 4:51 AM, Arthur Peres said: Alys was already promised to Daryn. With the prejudice against bastards, and she being older than him, would the Karstarks acept such a match, when they already have their own claim on the land ? Alys is also the probable heir to Karhold, since Harrion is imprisoned, she can probably get better matches. Daryn is dead in case you haven't noticed and that's the entire reason of this thread. Better matches than Lord of Hornwood? Hothwe Whoresbane perhaps? Or Wyman Manderly? Hoster did not give up on a Stark marriage just because Brandon died and Rickard Karstark was still alive at the time the crisis were mentioned for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Hoster did not give up on a Stark marriage just because Brandon died and Rickard Karstark was still alive at the time the crisis were mentioned for the first time. Good points, but Eddard was the clear heir. Larence is not, and the Karstarks already have a claim on the Hornwood lands, without him. 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Better matches than Lord of Hornwood? Hothwe Whoresbane perhaps? Or Wyman Manderly? Wyman is a good example, there is also Smalljon or Galbart Glover. Whoresbane it's too old for Alys and far away from the sucession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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