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Redhands

Silverwing and the Dying of the Dragons

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As far as Fire and Blood part 1 goes, Silverwing flies off to Red Lake (why not Dragonstone?) and lives there after the Dance of Dragons. My question is: no Targaryen tried to retrieve the dragon? There is only 1 bonded dragon left in the whole dynasty (twin sister Rhaena Targaryen and her dragon Morning) but there seems to be no real urgency to claim the oldest dragon that had a rider left alive in the whole world. I understand Aegon the Unlucky had an indifference to dragons, but no other Targaryen felt this was a priority? Maybe my question will be answered in part 2.

From the extremely weird Shepherd (he looked and smelled like a corpse and correctly predicted that Borros Baratheon and King Aegon II would die within the year) who preached and riled up the mob to kill the dragons, and the subsequent killing of the last Targ dragons in the Dragonpit, it seems like there was a real conspiracy to remove them and their dragons from Westeros. Take away their dragons and they are just men who can be easily toppled or influenced as rulers. Why did the dragons stop hatching on Dragonstone after the Dance? Was there a concerted effort to separate the Targs from their dragons? 

Edited by Redhands

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There may have been such a conspiracy.  But the important thing is, the dragons are back. 

The Targaryens are just men without their dragons.  That is true for most Targaryens.  But there are special Targaryens who have amazing abilities.  Daenerys and Daenys are two fine examples.  

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8 hours ago, Redhands said:

As far as Fire and Blood part 1 goes, Silverwing flies off to Red Lake (why not Dragonstone?) and lives there after the Dance of Dragons. My question is: no Targaryen tried to retrieve the dragon? There is only 1 bonded dragon left in the whole dynasty (twin sister Rhaena Targaryen and her dragon Morning) but there seems to be no real urgency to claim the oldest dragon that had a rider left alive in the whole world. I understand Aegon the Unlucky had an indifference to dragons, but no other Targaryen felt this was a priority? Maybe my question will be answered in part 2.

From the extremely weird Shepherd (he looked and smelled like a corpse and correctly predicted that Borros Baratheon and King Aegon II would die within the year) who preached and riled up the mob to kill the dragons, and the subsequent killing of the last Targ dragons in the Dragonpit, it seems like there was a real conspiracy to remove them and their dragons from Westeros. Take away their dragons and they are just men who can be easily toppled or influenced as rulers. Why did the dragons stop hatching on Dragonstone after the Dance? Was there a concerted effort to separate the Targs from their dragons? 

It was my understanding that the Targs were having trouble hatching even before the dance, and that it was a steady decline.

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4 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

It was my understanding that the Targs were having trouble hatching even before the dance, and that it was a steady decline.

Not quite. At the start of Dance there were more dragons than at any other time. Including many young ones.

It was during and after that they had trouble replenishing their numbers. 

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9 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Not quite. At the start of Dance there were more dragons than at any other time. Including many young ones.

It was during and after that they had trouble replenishing their numbers. 

They have plenty of dragons but young is relative, there were no recent hatchlings.  The youngest was moondancer who was 8?ish?  They had failed hatchings and were praying eggs would hatch when the kids slept with them.

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Well along with most of the dragons, most of the Targaryens died as well. It's perfectly conceivable the knowledge of hatching and rearing dragons died with them.

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58 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

They have plenty of dragons but young is relative, there were no recent hatchlings.  The youngest was moondancer who was 8?ish?  They had failed hatchings and were praying eggs would hatch when the kids slept with them.

There is also Morghul, Shrykos and Stormcloud all of whom should be younger. We don't have statistics, but it seems to me that the problem started during the Dance. Perhaps when oversight of the eggs would have grown more lax? 

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Many dragons died during the Dance and dragons are associated with magic.  Fewer dragons means weaker magic in the world and dragons themselves are magical creatures so maybe that explains them being less spectacular after that and eventually dying out.  The last dragon to hatch was said to be small, sickly, misshapen, and stunted, with withered wings and didn't live a long life.

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So, for those of us who refuse to read the outside materials and would rather feel their way into simple revelations that account for what happened....

The health of dragons and targaryens was tied to the blood bond that they shared remaining in good standing.  The blood magic was like an oath that they violated with the dance of dragons.   When they turned against their own blood, this soured the blood bond and filled the dragons with self destructive impulses.  It sapped their will to live.  Or, restated for different effect, the first family of fire abused fire and their fire privileges were revoked.  Because of unworthiness.  Failure to live up to their blood bond.  Literally a case of "a house divided cannot stand."  Only here it's the blood magic that couldn't abide the division.

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15 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Not quite. At the start of Dance there were more dragons than at any other time. Including many young ones.

It was during and after that they had trouble replenishing their numbers. 

Even before the Dance, it seems to suggest that most of the eggs did not hatch. Baela hung around with 3 eggs and only one of them hatched. Viserys` egg never hatched. Even during the reign of Jahaerys, the three eggs that were stolen and sold in Braavos never hatched (until almost 200 years later, with magical intervention.) Also, recall that almost half of the dragonriders during the Dance were riding hand-me-downs, rather than dragons that they had raised themselves. Sunfire, Tessarion, Maelys, Arrax, Syrax, Vermax, Morghul, Shrykos, and  Stormcloud were all ridden by riders who had raised them. Vhagar, Caraxes, Silverwing, Seasmoke, Vermithor, and Dreamfyre had all outlived their original riders.

 

As for why Silverwing went unclaimed, there weren`t really any Targaryens left to claim her. Aegon III obviously wasn`t interested. Rhaena already had Morning, and Baela had already ridden Moondancer. Notice that none of the dragonriders who outlived their mounts ever claimed another. Maybe it`s such a deep bond that it`s too painful to do again. Even Aegon II says that he wants to hatch "Another Sunfire" rather than  claim Silverwing. Recall that Aegon wept over Sunfire when he died, and almost had his 14 year old niece executed to avenge him.

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18 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Well along with most of the dragons, most of the Targaryens died as well. It's perfectly conceivable the knowledge of hatching and rearing dragons died with them.

That's part of it. They lost some key members with the dragon gene, which is responsible for the connection to dragons and hatching. The knowledge was still there, but the ability was not.

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On 11/27/2018 at 5:18 PM, Redhands said:

 Why did the dragons stop hatching on Dragonstone after the Dance? Was there a concerted effort to separate the Targs from their dragons? 

Most of the dragon hatchers died in the Dance, the rest of the girls with potential double X dragon genes capable of birthing were all killed off subsequently not long after.

 

Baela Targaryen was the only one left alive that may have been able to, but she was never given any more dragon eggs after Moondancer, and lived on Driftmark

 

source: 0:40 Genetics of Dragons

Edited by lrresistable
edit: yes, theres been a huge conspiracy to kill off the dragons, which further intensified during / after the Targaryens decimated the realm with their civil war.

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14 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

The health of dragons and targaryens was tied to the blood bond that they shared remaining in good standing.  The blood magic was like an oath that they violated with the dance of dragons.   When they turned against their own blood, this soured the blood bond and filled the dragons with self destructive impulses.  It sapped their will to live.  Or, restated for different effect, the first family of fire abused fire and their fire privileges were revoked.  Because of unworthiness.  Failure to live up to their blood bond.  Literally a case of "a house divided cannot stand."  Only here it's the blood magic that couldn't abide the division.

the 40 Dragon-lord Families of the Freehold killed each-other with their dragons sporadically, which renders this theory moot

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23 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Many dragons died during the Dance and dragons are associated with magic.  Fewer dragons means weaker magic in the world and dragons themselves are magical creatures so maybe that explains them being less spectacular after that and eventually dying out.  The last dragon to hatch was said to be small, sickly, misshapen, and stunted, with withered wings and didn't live a long life.

Yes and no. Even after the Dance, there were still a few living dragons: Morning, the Cannibal, Sheepstealer and Silverwing. That's one more than Aegon the Conqueror had when he came to Westeros, and there were no problems hatching dragons back then. 

Also, based on FAB, it seems the hatching difficulties started during the Dance, when there were still lots of dragons. 

Speaking of the Cannibal though, we learn in FAB that he liked to visit the hatcheries on Dragonstone and eat eggs and hatchlings. So perhaps that's what happened to a lot of the "extra" eggs that seem to be lost after the Dance. 

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11 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Lol, people talking about genes in a magical fantasy world

I suppose you're not familiar with the Dragon X gene theory or you're one of those types that just thinks everything is "magic" and has no other explanation.

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7 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

I suppose you're not familiar with the Dragon X gene theory or you're one of those types that just thinks everything is "magic" and has no other explanation.

Yes, "magic" is how it is done. Also, don't listen to preston Jacobs. Her means well, but has too much time on his hands. PJ is not George.   Considering how physically beautiful the targs are after generations of the closest inbreeding possible, something like dragon riding being "on the x gene" is foolish. Something like "targ blood" is far more plausible and does not bring in real world genetics to a fraction of a story where genetics is all but ignored in other parts of it.

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