Dany’s Shivers

[Lord Varys]

10 hours ago, DMC said:

Yeah, I don't get why that's a parallel to Aegon - telling his queens what to do.  The only connection I see here is that upon her death, Daenerys had two and only two little siblings that were brothers.  That strikes me as thin basis.

Daenerys told her brothers what do do, and Aegon told his sisters what to do. It is not that hard. And those things are all subtle. Just as you have to connect the dots to see that Rogar is channeling various other Baratheons we know, and some of his brothers as well.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Daenerys told her brothers what do do, and Aegon told his sisters what to do. It is not that hard. And those things are all subtle.

Well, I don't think that's subtle at all, but my main problem is it flies in the face of the constant depiction that more than any other queens his sisters co-ruled.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Well, I don't think that's subtle at all, but my main problem is it flies in the face of the constant depiction that more than any other queens his sisters co-ruled.

They co-ruled, but it is clear that Aegon made the final decisions:

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Though none doubted that Aegon Targaryen was the final authority in all matters relating to the governance of the realm, his sisters Visenya and Rhaenys remained his partners in power throughout his reign. Save perhaps for Good Queen Alysanne, the wife of King Jaehaerys I, no other queen in the history of the Seven Kingdoms ever exercised as much influence over policy as the Dragon’s sisters.

In practice this would have meant, one assumes, that Visenya and Rhaenys could rule on any matter laid before them but Aegon could, if he wanted, overturn any decision they made, just as the kings of later days could and did overturn decisions made by their Hands in their name. One assumes that didn't happen all that often, and that Visenya and Rhaenys also consulted with Aegon before making decisions they knew or expected he would want to weigh into.

This kind of partnership is exactly what I expect Dany and her dragon heads to do. She will be the final authority, but they will (try to) rule together as a team.

[DMC]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

They co-ruled, but it is clear that Aegon made the final decisions:

Obviously.  You don't need to provide textual proof for that.  I'm saying that "hint" is too on the nose for me and I think it's a lame and weak connection.  You're not gonna convince me otherwise, so to each their own.

[Lord Varys]

21 minutes ago, DMC said:

Obviously.  You don't need to provide textual proof for that.  I'm saying that "hint" is too on the nose for me and I think it's a lame and weak connection.  You're not gonna convince me otherwise, so to each their own.

Well, it is not important what you believe, just that you see that there is a hint there. What you do with it isn't all that important ;-).

[DMC]

45 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, it is not important what you believe, just that you see that there is a hint there.

I feel like this sentence was edited out of Gordon's speech at the end of Dark Knight.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Well the show will spoil her end before the next autumn so he might as well as spoil it in his own history book lol

[Varysblackfyre321]

I’m curious on why Viserys never told Daenerys about the Shivers. Is it because his education was abruptly stopped, or did the Targyens decide to gloss over this little incident when teaching their children as to reaffirm the belief that it’s ok for Targyens to commit inchest. 

[Hiigara129]

After re-reading the shivers section, I'm more than convinced its one of GRRM's red herrings he mentioned.  Nothing about it suggests a magical or otherworldly power that would be associated with the Others. Its at least a century old (the Maesters are mentioned as being familiar with the illness and having seen it a century before) and came from the east, affecting port cities first and spreading from there. If it came from the North downwards I'd believe it could be Others created, but we've seen nothing to suggest they have any power in Essos. If anything it seems to me that whatever magic the Targaryens (and other Dragonlords/Sorcerer Princes) used to make themselves immune to disease has began to fail or perhaps that failure is related to being in Westeros (after all, the Freehold apparently believed that its doom would come from the Sunset Kingdoms), with Dany I being the first victim. This is further enforced IMO by the fact that we know of several later Targaryens that died of illness; Daeron II and his grandsons dies of the Sweating sickness in 209 AC. So whatever immunity the Targaryens had seems to have faded by the third century after conquest. It might be related to the Dragons or to whatever magic the family used to practice.

[Shmedricko]

Alysanne's Daenerys dying of the Shivers reminded of Dany's "wake the dragon" dream in AGOT:

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She was walking down a long hall beneath high stone arches. She could not look behind her, must not look behind her. There was a door ahead of her, tiny with distance, but even from afar, she saw that it was painted red. She walked faster, and her bare feet left bloody footprints on the stone.

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Ser Jorah's face was drawn and sorrowful. "Rhaegar was the last dragon," he told her. He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals. One moment he was there and the next he was fading, his flesh colorless, less substantial than the wind. "The last dragon," he whispered, thin as a wisp, and was gone. She felt the dark behind her, and the red door seemed farther away than ever.

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The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run.

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The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door. (Daenerys IX, AGOT)

And later on in Fire & Blood it says "The Shivers took Daenerys at the age of six," which reminded me of the phrase "The Others take you."

[Ralphis Baratheon]

If the shivers break out on top of everything else including possibly greyscale... Maybe the Dothraki are smart to not want to cross the poison water.

[The Piper Report]

Eh, I went to that link and watched George's answer to that.  It seemed to me that he was saying if Dany read FB she would have done things differently in Essos and not screwed things up the way she did (past tense.)  I didn't really see any future foreshadowing there as to what lies in store for her, except for maybe losing a dragon or two.

 

[Joey Crows]

On 11/27/2018 at 6:18 PM, LadyTargaryen1 said:

In a recent interview GRRM said (paraphrasing here) that Jaehaerys I daughter Dany’s story will have some foreshadowing for the Dany of the main story. What do you think this means? Will Daenaerys die in a war against the others, like Alysannes daughter succumbed to the Shivers? Speculate below!

Could be centered around how until Dany 1 the Targs thought they were immune to illness and stood above other people. Dany 2 has mentioned never being sick, and of course she has been immune to fire up to this point. Perhaps there will be a moment where Dany 2 finds out she doesn't stand above other people because of her Targ blood after all. Whether that's finally succumbing to illness or fire I don't know, but maybe...