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Sophia Wilson17@yahoo.ca

What is your theory on The Others?

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My Theory is that part of the Pact with The Others is the Others demand that population keep the low on (Westeros) or that some sons of the Humans will be given to the White Walkers. Because this happen so long ago the terms of Pact were forgotten. As time went on The Others is now regard as legends.   Also people believe the Hero beat them back and that why the Wall was built.

 

Please list your theories.

Edited by Sophia [email protected]

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I agree with a lot of what you said, Sophia.  People love to create heroes but if you think it through, the darkness did not go away because of something man did.  The weather just changed.  No magic sword can drive away the darkness.  

The Starks make human sacrifices to their trees.  Craster leaves his sons out in the trees where the WW presumably take them.  I don't think they will take just any human sacrifice.  It has to have the blood of the Starks.  Craster is related to the Stark.  He is kin to the Starks.  This is the difference between Brynden Rivers and Bran Stark.  The reason why Bran is needed.  Only a Stark has the gift to control the wights.  

It's anyone's guess why the Others are now mobilizing.  The best guess is the climate change.  They follow the weather.  One other good theory, the Starks stopped feeding their sons to their trees.  A pact existed whereby the Starks agreed to sacrifice a son of the house at some agreed interval.  Why must there always be a Stark in Winterfell?  Let's think.  What is it exactly that is in Winterfell?  The magic weirwood tree that's been fed blood since it was a seedling.  The saying can mean a Stark must always be there to give their blood to the tree.  

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That the Others are a bunch of empty antagonists that were introduced to form another boring apocalyptic plot. I hope I'm wrong though.  

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6 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

Please list your theories.

They are the ancient enemies of the ctof who appear every few millennia to wreak havoc on all things alive and warm. The children were more than capable of handling them. The others are vulnerable to obsidian, the magic of the children, and with the weirnet, the children would know when the others would come and have the knowledge of how they were defeated. This changed when men cut down the weirwoods and killed most of the children. Now the Others have returned and men are too short sighted to fight them 

 

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Some world myths start out with elemental or nature gods which are then replaced by gods of man or civilization—basically man’s mastery of nature. Implied is an ancient conflict between man and nature expressed early on by man evolving from hunter-gatherers to farmers. In more modern times, we have nature often reminding man of his place in the world in deadly and devastating ways.

In Roman/Greek and Norse myth, the older gods were nature gods. In Greek myth they were Titans and in Norse myth, they were Giants. Then comes along gods of man in Odin and Zeus and the balance of power changes. We see something like this in ASOIAF where the Northerners worship older and nameless nature gods, but the Seven are gods of man with the Mother, Father, etc. The Valyrians are above the gods, or so they think. As the harnessers of the element of fire, perhaps it's appropriate that they're not a part of the gods who represent civilization. Like the Starks, they maybe identify more with their own Old Gods of fire.

 

AGOT Daenerys VIII

"I will stay," Dany said. "The man took me under the stars and gave life to the child inside me. I will not leave him."

"You must. Once I begin to sing, no one must enter this tent. My song will wake powers old and dark. The dead will dance here this night. No living man must look on them."

...

No, Dany wanted to say, no, not that, you mustn't, but when she opened her mouth, a long wail of pain escaped, and the sweat broke over her skin. What was wrong with them, couldn't they see? Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and the bloody bath, dark against the sandsilk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames.

 

The powers old and dark sound not unlike the old nature Titans and Giants of real world myth. Ice is the purest form of water as water to be liquid must contain a little fire, so we have Ice and Fire here. Mirri’s ritual here contains both water and fire. Drago is in a bath, but blood (fire) is added. Her knife contains Valyrian glyphs, but is leaf shaped and bronze. She sings a song. Mirri calls them dead, but perhaps that's only because they never lived as man would understand it.

Not sure how the Pact fits in here, but I'm guessing it's important.

GRRM has said that the Others are Ice and Daenerys with Dragons is fire. Elements against man. In this story we have the dragons as heroes (I would assume), but in earlier tales of horrors and slavery, they were the villains brought in check by the water of the Rhoynar. Bran is set up to harness Ice like Bran the Builder and Daenerys tries to harness Fire in dragons who are fire made flesh. It's no coincidence that these are the two most magical characters and are such strong parallels.

The story we have shows Ice as evil and Fire as the savior, but earlier stories show the roles reversed. The hippie wonderland of the Rhoynar turns to a wasteland when it becomes negative just as fire likewise destroys just as thoroughly in it's negative aspects. Water in its positive aspect is good, and we see that fire in its positive aspect is also good like in wildling culture where being kissed by fire is lucky. I think the story will see a conflict between the positive aspects of ice/fire with the negative/run amok aspects of ice/fire. As such, neither are good or evil in themselves, but certain aspects are.

 

 

Edited by Lollygag

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14 hours ago, Lumosaca said:

That the Others are a bunch of empty antagonists that were introduced to form another boring apocalyptic plot. I hope I'm wrong though.  

I can feel this. The supernatural elements of the books seem to be the most boring parts. What got me hooked into this was the political intrigue in Westeros, which is seeming more and more like it's going to take a back seat once the traditional fantasy elements start taking over.

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The Long Summer is causing the ice sheets to melt and break apart in the Land of Always Winter. They are heading south to put a stop to it, and perhaps reclaim their ancestral sword, which men call Dawn.

Either that, or Mance upset some kind of ward when he opened the ancient graves looking for the Horn of Joramun.

Or maybe it was the mixing of Stark and Targaryen (Ice and Fire) blood in the person of Jon Snow.

Or maybe they're just dicks.

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4 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I can feel this. The supernatural elements of the books seem to be the most boring parts. What got me hooked into this was the political intrigue in Westeros, which is seeming more and more like it's going to take a back seat once the traditional fantasy elements start taking over.

 Yes I agree with this! Great way to break a fantasy novel metatrope.  We have high fantasy magical elements set in a low fantasy milieu, which ensures that the protagonists will be completely unprepared for the looming conflict.

Furthermore, the fact that the non-fantastic elements are so well written, engaging, and important to the reader has surely set us all up for a jarring wakeup call when all those things become futile and tiny in the face of a calamitous supernatural catastrophe.

 So backseat probably, but for a good purpose, I hope.

Edited by Reekazoid
Autocorrect

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

The Long Summer is causing the ice sheets to melt and break apart in the Land of Always Winter. They are heading south to put a stop to it, and perhaps reclaim their ancestral sword, which men call Dawn.

Either that, or Mance upset some kind of ward when he opened the ancient graves looking for the Horn of Joramun.

Or maybe it was the mixing of Stark and Targaryen (Ice and Fire) blood in the person of Jon Snow.

Or maybe they're just dicks.

Well I'd hope Martin is more clever than to have some global warming parallel be the driving force of his incessantly evil villains. I read to escape the crap in this world mostly.

I'd also really hope they're more complicated than mindless monsters that are just awakened and attack randomly Egyptian mummy style. But can't discount that either.

Honestly, given the Long Night supposedly happened well before there were Targaryens in Westeros, I'm not sure what relevance Rhaegar and Lyanna having a kid would have to them. But why not blame this on them too? 

But I'm more convinced they're just mindless dicks. No way of spinning laughing as you slaughter a helpless person.

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I don't know which theory I subscribe to.

But I do not subscribe to the theory that the Others are the good guys and the 3 eyed crow is evil, and that they are here to rid evil from the world so it can begin again.

Simply because I do not want it to be true.

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2 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

I don't know which theory I subscribe to.

But I do not subscribe to the theory that the Others are the good guys and the 3 eyed crow is evil, and that they are here to rid evil from the world so it can begin again.

Simply because I do not want it to be true.

Well there is Melisandre's vision that the 3ER and Bran are the Greath Others champions. So seems to be people are being deceived across the board be it by others or themselves.

28 minutes ago, Reekazoid said:

 Yes I agree with this! Great way to break a fantasy novel metatrope.  We have high fantasy magical elements set in a low fantasy milieu, which ensures that the protagonists will be completely unprepared for the looking conflict.

Furthermore, the fact that the non-fantastic elements are so well written, engaging, and important to the reader has surely set us all up for a jarring wakeup call when all those things become futile and tiny in the face of a calamitous supernatural catastrophe.

 So backseat probably, but for a good purpose, I hope.

Maybe there's a big revelation coming that will twist everything but right now the zombie apocalypse that's coming seems rather... two dimensional, so it saddens me that it's going to take over the story inevitably. 

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Just now, Lord Lannister said:

Maybe there's a big revelation coming that will twist everything but right now the zombie apocalypse that's coming seems rather... two dimensional, so it saddens me that it's going to take over the story inevitably. 

I must admit, for the longest time I forgot all about the Others. Outside of Jon chapters, that is.

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The Others are an intelligent form of life.  They have not attacked the wall.  Maybe all they want is to push the humans back to the other side of the wall.  Man's enemy is man. 

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Yes, because the others are also smart enough to know there isn't enough time left in the series for a full invasion.   

And the tone of high fantasy would clash too much with the gritty real politics of the series, so I doubt the high fantasy elements will be allowed to fully take over and drown out the visceral view of human nature that dominates the books.  So...we're looking at a narrowly averted Other invasion that keeps from muddying the tone of the Southern story too much?   

The ice and fire combo blood is the swing factor to get that  magical catastrophe averted.  It can provide the opportunity to forge change in the frozen status quo of Wall politics.  Is combo blood a google translator to make sense of the Others by having Jon's mind act as a bridge to Their psyches after he goes cold but remains....somewhat ours.  (No, because that's Bran's job.  Then what the frick is Rheager trying to add to the world by inserting into an Ice honey?   He wanted a champion type, unlike Bran's brainy nature?  Because those are 2 of the 3 types of heads needed?   Eh.)   For added tension, the combo blood will also be what The Others could seize upon,  the key they could use to unlock total horror upon the world through Jon.   

Edited by The Mother of The Others
This edit's purpose is mysterious, especially to myself

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Well, I've got to say that the The Map Guy really got me thinking outside the box and after some extensive and exhaustive research I'm sure I've cracked the entire thing wide open and will be able to show what a far thinking, complete genius GRRM really is, but I'm afraid to post it for fear of breaking the internet, causing mass rioting in the streets and total career ruin for our illustrious author...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Oh, what the hell, it's Wednesday!

 

You see, the real genius move by GRRM was to peer ahead twenty years and predict our current sociopolitical landscape and the unrest it is causing. This is the real reason the books are taking so long, not any plot or pacing snafus or mythical "knots". GRRM has had to patiently wait for his visions to come to pass, all the while giving us "excuses" and "reasons" why the books aren't finished in a reasonable time. If he published too early, he risked looking foolish and everyone would think fantasy was silly and the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter movies would never get made. I'm sure you can understand what a pickle he was in. You can see a projection of the Other's cause openly portrayed with Dany's struggles in Essos to right the societal wrongs there, only GRRM couldn't give it away right off in Westeros, hence the stalling tactic of the Wo5K.

The secret of the Others is that they are Westerosi SJW fighting for parity and the rights of the undead and those who have been kept down by the longstanding, oppressive hereditary patriarchal system. Those like the Ironborn (who are curbed from doing what they wish and long to do), the illegitimate, the freakishly tall, the independent and proud, and those who find themselves facing the complete disregard and disrespect for anyone whose name begins with "Q".

GRRM was absolutely masterful at setting up his premise and then completely ignoring it for thousands of pages while we get a first hand account of the atrocities inflicted on these poor souls at the hands of their merciless oppressors; all the while slowly coming to sympathize with them, so that when the Others do finally arrive, we will see them as the saviors they really are and not the cold, soulless killing machines the system has portrayed them to be.

 

#L(ongshippers)B(astards)G(iants)T(henns)Q(yburn, Qhorin, Quaithe)rightsrightnow!

#wightlivesmatter

#theOthershavewarmhearts

#completeparody

 

(The man is a genius!)

Edited by Trefayne
errata - I hate "autocorrect"

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1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The Others are an intelligent form of life.  They have not attacked the wall.  Maybe all they want is to push the humans back to the other side of the wall.  Man's enemy is man. 

That makes me wonder how/why the Free Folk got over there to begin with. When the wall went up surely nobody thought it was a good idea to give live over on the other side, with the creatures the wall was built to keep out....

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2 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

Well, I've got to say that the The Map Guy really got me thinking outside the box and after some extensive and exhaustive research I'm sure I've cracked the entire thing wide open and will be able to show what a far thinking, complete genius GRRM really is, but I'm afraid to post it for fear of breaking the internet, causing mass rioting in the streets and total career ruin for our illustrious author...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Oh, what the hell, it's Wednesday!

 

You see, the real genius move by GRRM was to peer ahead twenty years and predict our current sociopolitical landscape and the unrest it is causing. This is the real reason the books are taking so long, not any plot or pacing snafus or mythical "knots". GRRM has had to patiently wait for his visions to come to pass, all the while giving us "excuses" and "reasons" why the books aren't finished in a reasonable time. If he published too early, he risked looking foolish and everyone would think fantasy was silly and the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter movies would never get made. I'm sure you can understand what a pickle he was in. You can see a projection of the Other's cause openly portrayed with Dany's struggles in Essos to right the societal wrongs there, only GRRM couldn't give it away right off in Westeros, hence the stalling tactic of the Wo5K.

The secret of the Others is that they are Westerosi SJW fighting for parity and the rights of the undead and those who have been kept down by the longstanding, oppressive hereditary patriarchal system. Those like the Ironborn (who are curbed from doing what they wish and long to do), the illegitimate, the freakishly tall, the independent and proud, and those who find themselves facing the complete disregard and disrespect for anyone who's name begins with "Q".

GRRM was absolutely masterful at setting up his premise and then completely ignoring it for thousands of pages while we get a first hand account of the atrocities inflicted on these poor souls at the hands of their merciless oppressors; all the while slowly coming to sympathize with them, so that when the Others do finally arrive, we will see them as the saviors they really are and not the cold, soulless killing machines the system has portrayed them to be.

 

#L(ongshippers)B(astards)G(iants)T(henns)Q(yburn, Qhorin, Quaithe)rightsrightnow!

#wightlivesmatter

#theOthershavewarmhearts

#completeparody

 

(The man is a genius!)

Damn I was going to volunteer as a secret holder. I know I'm too noobish tho LMAO

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15 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

Well, I've got to say that the The Map Guy really got me thinking outside the box and after some extensive and exhaustive research I'm sure I've cracked the entire thing wide open and will be able to show what a far thinking, complete genius GRRM really is, but I'm afraid to post it for fear of breaking the internet, causing mass rioting in the streets and total career ruin for our illustrious author...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Oh, what the hell, it's Wednesday!

 

You see, the real genius move by GRRM was to peer ahead twenty years and predict our current sociopolitical landscape and the unrest it is causing. This is the real reason the books are taking so long, not any plot or pacing snafus or mythical "knots". GRRM has had to patiently wait for his visions to come to pass, all the while giving us "excuses" and "reasons" why the books aren't finished in a reasonable time. If he published too early, he risked looking foolish and everyone would think fantasy was silly and the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter movies would never get made. I'm sure you can understand what a pickle he was in. You can see a projection of the Other's cause openly portrayed with Dany's struggles in Essos to right the societal wrongs there, only GRRM couldn't give it away right off in Westeros, hence the stalling tactic of the Wo5K.

The secret of the Others is that they are Westerosi SJW fighting for parity and the rights of the undead and those who have been kept down by the longstanding, oppressive hereditary patriarchal system. Those like the Ironborn (who are curbed from doing what they wish and long to do), the illegitimate, the freakishly tall, the independent and proud, and those who find themselves facing the complete disregard and disrespect for anyone who's name begins with "Q".

GRRM was absolutely masterful at setting up his premise and then completely ignoring it for thousands of pages while we get a first hand account of the atrocities inflicted on these poor souls at the hands of their merciless oppressors; all the while slowly coming to sympathize with them, so that when the Others do finally arrive, we will see them as the saviors they really are and not the cold, soulless killing machines the system has portrayed them to be.

 

#L(ongshippers)B(astards)G(iants)T(henns)Q(yburn, Qhorin, Quaithe)rightsrightnow!

#wightlivesmatter

#theOthershavewarmhearts

#completeparody

 

(The man is a genius!)

 So the Others are literal  white knights?  And thanks to the oppression in Westeros they woke?

 Brilliant, ser.

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16 minutes ago, Reekazoid said:

 So the Others are literal  white knights?  And thanks to the oppression in Westeros they woke?

 Brilliant, ser.

 

Yup. They also melt like snowflakes, but I didn't want to get too pointed. ;)

 

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I think I would prefer it if they were a different species who have an affinity for ice like dragons have with fire. 

Alternatively the original ice species are the ice spiders and dragons and the others have the blood of ice like Valyrians have the blood of the dragon, only to a greater extreme as ice is fundamentally incompatible with normal life. 

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