Russia/Ukraine naval conflict

[Rippounet]

3 hours ago, Alarich II said:

But to claim that Ukraine's claim to Crimea is significantly weaker than Russias - that's a pretty bold statement when we actually have an international treaty, where Russia renounced any claims to Ukraine. I find it baffling that you are seriously arguing this point from a historical POV, as if the nationalistic interpretation of history trumps todays international law.

I don't know that I am arguing anything. I was simply reacting to Scot using the term "bullshit" here. I think there's a lot to be said about the annexation, but I wouldnt dismiss any of the Russian arguments for the annexation. You do a good job explaining that it is a matter of ignoring international law.

[Heartofice]

I have a few Russian friends and the standard line they trot out is that Crimea was gifted to Ukraine under the expectation that Ukraine was part of the USSR and so it didn't matter. Clearly that doesn't make a ton of sense but they stick to it. Plus.. if you use a Seinfeld term, nobody wants to be a 'de-gifter'

Russia also claims that the Russian population of Crimea is pro-russian and wanted to break away, and there might have been quite a bit of truth to that, I've seen reports of Russians living there who appear to be a lot happier and certainly Russia has invested a lot in the region ever since. 

Having said that, the 1994 agreement was that Russia wouldn't threaten Ukraines borders nor would it interfere with the country's autonomy politically or economically. Its arguable that it committed the first action, but Russia has certainly interfered in Ukrainian elections in the past and Ukraine was a pseudo puppet for Russia before the Maiden elections anyway. Much of the troubles have come about because Ukraine was swayed to come under the influence of Europe rather than Putin's Russia.

[Alarich II]

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

I don't know that I am arguing anything. I was simply reacting to Scot using the term "bullshit" here.

Then I have misread your post. My apologies!

[Rippounet]

5 hours ago, Alarich II said:

Then I have misread your post. My apologies!

No worries, it's really my fault: I did write things, I just don't feel very stongly about them.

[Tyrellius]

Ali Soufan wrote a nice op-ed about the Ukraine/Russia conflict a few months ago.  If anyone has watched "The Looming Tower" on Amazon Prime, he's the young, muslim FBI guy.

His writing is a bit left leaning for me, but the scope of the subjects he covers is great, you can find his stuff on http://www.soufangroup.com/