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Ser Dips A lot

Realistic heights for the Stark characters

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 I’ve seen a lot of variety and inconsistency on the Stark men character heights, and I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter and get some feedback.

 Brandon Stark, Ned’s brother, was said to be tall and I sorta pictured him being in the 6’1-6’3 range tops. With that said I see Ned being slightly shorter. Based off that assumption, I conclude this:

Ned: 5’11-6’0

Benjen: 6’0

Robb: 6’1 when full grown

Jon: 6’0 when full grown

 You see guys like the Karstark being referred to as big and fierce, and they have Stark blood. I don’t think that Jon and Robb are full grown when everyone is throwing around these 5’8 numbers. I kept growing in height into my late teens, early twenties so I’m certain that they were not done yet.

With Tully/Stark blood for Robb and Stark/Targaryen blood for Jon, I find it hard to believe these guys are as short as I see everyone assuming. Any thoughts?

 

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Has there ever even been any set heights for the characters? I don't think it really matters. Jon Snow is about 16-17 right now, so he probably has quite alot of years where he can still grow. Robb was only about 15 or 16 when he died, so its only obvious that he wouldn't be that tall. 

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Without something fairly solid, people's idea about what's average will vary. I'm apparently from taller folk, so your 6'0 for a man is average for me and I picture their heights much as you do. But I've been to lots of places where that's definitely tall and ~5'8ish is closer to the average height for a man.

 

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Though Eddard is not Edward longshanks, (Kar)Starks are long of leg. Growth plate closes around 19 years of age at latest, for most people(Males), but in some people the growing can continue as late as 23 years. Jon is 'growing strong'.

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I’d put them more like:

 

Brandon - 6’0”

Ned/Benjen - 5’9”

Robb (GoT) - 5’6”, (full) - 5’11”

Jon (GoT) - 5’5”, (full) - 5’9”

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On 12/3/2018 at 8:44 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

Also the formula for expected height of a child is; (Mother's height + Father's height)/2 +/- 6.5 cm.

Source?

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1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

What I've been taught at medschool. If it's not good enough and you want something on the internets, here's one such:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/expert-answers/child-growth/faq-20057990

 

On 12/3/2018 at 8:44 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

Also the formula for expected* height of a child is; (Mother's height + Father's height)/2 +/- 6.5 cm.

=/=

Quote

There's no proven way to predict a child's adult height. However, several formulas can provide a reasonable guess for child growth. (Quote from the article provided).

 

* bolded mine.

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2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

What I've been taught at medschool. If it's not good enough and you want something on the internets, here's one such:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/expert-answers/child-growth/faq-20057990

Lol well outstripped that by uh large margin.

 

I always figured the male starks were 5’10”-6’2”, Ned to Benjen to Brandon.

i don’t even know with Robb or Jon other than just shorter than an average male. I was my full height at 16, so I expected them to be along the same route. Neither set of parents seems like they would have a kid just shoot it in height at a late age 

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Does anyone have a take on the main physical differences/ atttributes between First Men and Andal? I picture the quintessential andal as tall and fair haired, and the First Men as typically dark haired. We see the prominent andal nobles as blue eyed and blonde (Arryn), green eyed and blonde ( Lannister), and blue eyed and auburn hair (Tully). The First Men Houses all seem to have dark hair and blue/grey eyes. I think for certain that grey eyes is exclusively a First Men trait. Any thoughts?

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19 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Lol well outstripped that by uh large margin.

 

I always figured the male starks were 5’10”-6’2”, Ned to Benjen to Brandon.

i don’t even know with Robb or Jon other than just shorter than an average male. I was my full height at 16, so I expected them to be along the same route. Neither set of parents seems like they would have a kid just shoot it in height at a late age 

If you mean yourself, then so did I but there are other factors besides genetics. There's a reason that people are taller today than say 300 years ago. If your parents haven't fully realized the full potential of their genetics due to  their diet being poor(er than yours), then you'd be taller, yes. 

There is a reason the formula gives or takes 6.5 cms depending on gender. throughout the world difference between male average height and female average height is roughly 13 cms. 

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2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

This is being nitpicky.

Sure. But it's correct. "Expected" implies a certainty of outcome which isn't consistent with an educated guess nor is it accurate to how unpredictable height actually is.

I have a nephew who small for his age group despite his father being 6'4" and his sister being taller than average. Telling a kid or their parents that the kid has failed to meet "expected" height is pretty bad.

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Regarding Ned, Tobho Mott describes Varys (if indeed it was him who brought him Gendry) as “not so tall as you” in conversation with Ned. IIRC, Varys' height is never mentioned, which implies that his height is unremarkable (unlike, say, Littlefinger's), not too far from average. Which leads me to conclude that Ned's height falls in the upper average to tallish range. Around 6'0 would be my guess. That might make Brandon 6'2 or so.

 

Regarding Robb, at age 15 he is around Catelyn's height. She considers him tall then.

Quote

Catelyn watched a breeze stir his auburn hair, so like her own, and wondered when her son had grown so big. Fifteen, and near as tall as she was. (AGOT, Catelyn X)

 

Let him grow as tall as his father, and hold his own son in his arms. Please, please, please. As she watched him, this tall young man with the new beard and the direwolf prowling at his heels, all she could see was the babe they had laid at her breast at Riverrun, so long ago. (AGOT, Catelyn X)

 

When he lowered it over the face she loved so well, a tall young knight sat on his grey stallion where her son had been. (AGOT, Catelyn X)

 

 Littlefinger is shorter than Lysa who is shorter than Catelyn. 

Quote

 

 Shorter than Catelyn, Lysa had grown thick of body, pale and puffy of face. (Catelyn VI)

 

Lady Lysa was two years younger than Mother, but this woman looked ten years older. Thick auburn tresses fell down past her waist, but beneath the costly velvet gown and jeweled bodice her body sagged and bulged. Her face was pink and painted, her breasts heavy, her limbs thick. She was taller than Littlefinger, and heavier; nor did she show any grace in the clumsy way she climbed down off her horse. (ASOS, Sansa VI)

 

  Littlefinger is described as short, but not freakishly so. If he is 5'5-5'7, that might make Catelyn 5'7-5'9. (The Tullys, including Sansa who has the Tully look, are all either outright stated to be tall or implied to be on the taller side.) Catelyn herself considering Robb, who (at age 15) is of a height with her, to be tall seems to imply that she is also on the taller side of my estimation, closer to 5'9, if not taller. (5'7 isn't considered tall for a 15-year-old male, is it?) 

 

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4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

If you mean yourself, then so did I but there are other factors besides genetics. There's a reason that people are taller today than say 300 years ago. If your parents haven't fully realized the full potential of their genetics due to  their diet being poor(er than yours), then you'd be taller, yes. 

There is a reason the formula gives or takes 6.5 cms depending on gender. throughout the world difference between male average height and female average height is roughly 13 cms. 

I did, but neither of my parents had a worse diet than me and it doesn’t really apply to the Starks either.

 

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14 hours ago, Ser Dips A lot said:

Does anyone have a take on the main physical differences/ atttributes between First Men and Andal? I picture the quintessential andal as tall and fair haired, and the First Men as typically dark haired. We see the prominent andal nobles as blue eyed and blonde (Arryn), green eyed and blonde ( Lannister), and blue eyed and auburn hair (Tully). The First Men Houses all seem to have dark hair and blue/grey eyes. I think for certain that grey eyes is exclusively a First Men trait. Any thoughts?

I don't think these generalities can be taken very far and there have been thousands of years to mix. Being a First Man house has more to do with the age of the House or chosen culture than blood purity which neither Andals nor First Men seem to care about.

Lots of characters have brown hair, not just First Men (there aren't many options for hair color ;)). Grey eyes are everywhere: the Hound, Maester Luwin, Mandon Moore, LF and Aurane Waters have grey-green, Stevron Frey, Qhorin Half-Hand, early Val before the change, Magnar, Ygritte is blue-grey, as is Benjen and Jason and Denys Mallister, Bronze Yohn, Haldon, Boltons, Marlon Manderly, Harry Strickland, Pretty Meris, more....

The Lannisters married in with Andals rather than fight a war, but they go back to the Lann the Clever which pre-dates the Andals. There are red-heads and blondes north of the Wall.

 

 

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On 12/1/2018 at 11:59 PM, Ser Dips A lot said:

 

 You see guys like the Karstark being referred to as big and fierce, and they have Stark blood.

It is Bran who comments on their size, suggesting they are much taller than the Starks and people of Winterfell.

Bran watched them come from a guard turret atop the outer wall, peering through Maester Luwin's bronze far-eye while perched on Hodor's shoulders. Lord Rickard himself led them, his sons Harrion and Eddard and Torrhen riding beside him beneath night-black banners emblazoned with the white sunburst of their House. Old Nan said they had Stark blood in them, going back hundreds of years, but they did not look like Starks to Bran. They were big men, and fierce

The Karstarks are a 1,000 year old cadet branch, there are going to be significant differences. 

 

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15 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

It is Bran who comments on their size, suggesting they are much taller than the Starks and people of Winterfell.

Bran is a Tully in appearance and so are most of the "Starks" he knows, also his father was a shortStark and the two 'Starks' best fit for comparison for the Karstark men are Jon and Robb, both younger than Karstarks.

15 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The Karstarks are a 1,000 year old cadet branch, there are going to be significant differences. 

I'd disagree. This is a series where dynasties preserve their looks over many generations, millenia even, you can check my thread on it. If it is not enough, Alys, Arya and Lyanna all look very much alike, Alys, Benjen and Jon(not sure) all have long legs and Stark and Karstark share other traits as well.

 

Also this

And Arya … he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful.

Edited by Corvo the Crow

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