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VVSINGOFTHECROSS

Aemon Targaryen survives, future of the dynasty queries

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6 hours ago, lysmonger said:

Why Aemon and Jocelyn only have one kid. There wasnt any information on their trials of reproduction or failed pregnancies. Could it be Aemon and Jocelyn chose to only have one child because of dynastic issues with other targaryen children?

Think it was most likely a plot device

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After 85 AC, Baelon was a loose cannon.

Most eligible widower in 7 Kingdoms. Jaehaerys had been concerned of Vaegon and butterflies (page 301) in 73 when Vaegon was 10 and "third in line" after two living brethren and unknown number of future children of Aemon (a young husband of 18) and Baelon (an eligible bachelor of 16). In 85, Baelon was 28 or so, also "third in line" but now Aemon´s only heir was a girl of 11, little expectation of more children after 11 years, and Baelon having the 2 known children.

The possibility of Baelon getting an unsympathetic second wife or paramour stirring him into quarrels with mother, father, older brother or children from his first marriage was an obvious one. Alysanne could not then know that Baelon would end up an asexual widower for the next 16 years.

Nor was Viserra the worst second wife he could get. The fact that Viserra was his full sister meant that she had no kinsmen and hardly any henchmen who were not also and above all kinsmen and henchmen of her husband. A worthy noble second wife outside Targaryen family would have come with a House, family and bannermen to support the plots in pursuit of her ambitions, where Viserra would have been helpless with no one to trust with anything shady.

And even a Queen of Westeros cannot boss around a 28 year old widower (and dragonrider) the way she can do with 15-16 year old (and dragonless) maids. Especially when the man is not obviously disgraced and unmanned like non-sers Androw or Merrett.

What would have been better? Marrying Rhaenys to Viserys, or marrying Rhaenys to Baelon? Because marrying Baelon, if he agreed, would have tied up the loose cannon the way marrying Viserys would not have done - if Alysanne approached Baelon privately without embarrassing Baelon with need for public refusal, she might have relied on Baelon to either decline or else keep his vows. Rhaenys/Viserys would still have left the risks of second wife of Baelon...

Edited by Jaak

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1 hour ago, Jaak said:

After 85 AC, Baelon was a loose cannon.

Most eligible widower in 7 Kingdoms. Jaehaerys had been concerned of Vaegon and butterflies (page 301) in 73 when Vaegon was 10 and "third in line" after two living brethren and unknown number of future children of Aemon (a young husband of 18) and Baelon (an eligible bachelor of 16). In 85, Baelon was 28 or so, also "third in line" but now Aemon´s only heir was a girl of 11, little expectation of more children after 11 years, and Baelon having the 2 known children.

The possibility of Baelon getting an unsympathetic second wife or paramour stirring him into quarrels with mother, father, older brother or children from his first marriage was an obvious one. Alysanne could not then know that Baelon would end up an asexual widower for the next 16 years.

Nor was Viserra the worst second wife he could get. The fact that Viserra was his full sister meant that she had no kinsmen and hardly any henchmen who were not also and above all kinsmen and henchmen of her husband. A worthy noble second wife outside Targaryen family would have come with a House, family and bannermen to support the plots in pursuit of her ambitions, where Viserra would have been helpless with no one to trust with anything shady.

And even a Queen of Westeros cannot boss around a 28 year old widower (and dragonrider) the way she can do with 15-16 year old (and dragonless) maids. Especially when the man is not obviously disgraced and unmanned like non-sers Androw or Merrett.

What would have been better? Marrying Rhaenys to Viserys, or marrying Rhaenys to Baelon? Because marrying Baelon, if he agreed, would have tied up the loose cannon the way marrying Viserys would not have done - if Alysanne approached Baelon privately without embarrassing Baelon with need for public refusal, she might have relied on Baelon to either decline or else keep his vows. Rhaenys/Viserys would still have left the risks of second wife of Baelon...

I disagree here, Viserys to Rhaenys satisfies  things, it unites the two claims and it ensures Baelon's blood will later sit the throne

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Its really a shame we didn't get more detail about Aemon in general, he was quite interesting and the family relationships were unfortunately left blank. Now as Fire and Blood was written by an Archmaester, I can guess why we aren't privy to any private conversations between the Royals not mentioned in gossip or witnessed by the Grand Maester/Septon Barth, but still disappointing. For example, where was Aemon in the Rhaenys-Corlys marriage? Was he fine with it or did Rhaenys approach Jaehaerys as a way to get around her father's opposition? Why didn't anyone (looking at Alysanne!) suggest she instead marry her cousin Viserys, the next male heir? The behind the scenes relations between Aemon and Baelon unfortunately remain a mystery.

Though I agree that Baelon marrying Rhaenys wouldn't work as well as Viserys-Rhaenys.

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11 hours ago, Hiigara129 said:

Its really a shame we didn't get more detail about Aemon in general, he was quite interesting and the family relationships were unfortunately left blank. Now as Fire and Blood was written by an Archmaester, I can guess why we aren't privy to any private conversations between the Royals not mentioned in gossip or witnessed by the Grand Maester/Septon Barth, but still disappointing. For example, where was Aemon in the Rhaenys-Corlys marriage? Was he fine with it or did Rhaenys approach Jaehaerys as a way to get around her father's opposition? Why didn't anyone (looking at Alysanne!) suggest she instead marry her cousin Viserys, the next male heir? The behind the scenes relations between Aemon and Baelon unfortunately remain a mystery.

Though I agree that Baelon marrying Rhaenys wouldn't work as well as Viserys-Rhaenys.

Agreed with you there. I get the feeling the combiantion of Aemon and Baelon would be formidable

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The lack of care and consideration that is shown in regards to the marriages of the second generation after Jaehaerys and Alysanne astounds me.  Viserys and Rhaenys was such an obvious match, considering Aemon had no other children, his apparent closeness with his brother, and the amount of work that Jaehaerys and Alysanne put into establishing the "Doctrine of Exceptionalism."  Only to  allow Rhaenys to marry a man who could be her father, who had only distant Targaryen blood.  I really don't understand this.  Did Jaehaerys stop caring about the line of succession after who his immediate heir was?  It's like no one gave any thought to the marriage to the heir's only child, and the problems that it could bring down the road.

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On 12/7/2018 at 12:50 AM, RagnarokKing said:

The lack of care and consideration that is shown in regards to the marriages of the second generation after Jaehaerys and Alysanne astounds me.  Viserys and Rhaenys was such an obvious match, considering Aemon had no other children, his apparent closeness with his brother, and the amount of work that Jaehaerys and Alysanne put into establishing the "Doctrine of Exceptionalism."  Only to  allow Rhaenys to marry a man who could be her father, who had only distant Targaryen blood.  I really don't understand this.  Did Jaehaerys stop caring about the line of succession after who his immediate heir was?  It's like no one gave any thought to the marriage to the heir's only child, and the problems that it could bring down the road.

Plot, there's your answer.

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6 hours ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

Plot, there's your answer.

Yep that's pretty much the answer.  Adding on to that, we do have to consider that a lot of this history is stuff George made up, might not have completely thought through, and was then stuck with after the fact and had to work around.  As in, he'd already established Rhaenys was married to Corlys, and Viserys originally to Aemma, then to Alicent, probably without considering the question why Rhaenys and Viserys weren't married to each other instead.  Oh well...

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13 hours ago, RagnarokKing said:

Yep that's pretty much the answer.  Adding on to that, we do have to consider that a lot of this history is stuff George made up, might not have completely thought through, and was then stuck with after the fact and had to work around.  As in, he'd already established Rhaenys was married to Corlys, and Viserys originally to Aemma, then to Alicent, probably without considering the question why Rhaenys and Viserys weren't married to each other instead.  Oh well...

Agreed, and I don't think he'll want to flesh it out that much more.

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