Football: The art of lowering expectations

[Iskaral Pust]

Three unsuccessful manager selections in a row.  Sheer random chance suggests they’ll have to get lucky eventually.  But I’m pretty sure Woodward and the board are considerably worse than a random process.  They weren’t proactive to pursue Klopp, Pep or Sarri.  They would not have taken a risk on Pochettino. 

But it’s a very appealing opportunity for someone now: tons of money, a very low bar has been set, and the fans will rapturously embrace any improvement. 

[Wilbur]

Please let Manchester United fulfill their destiny and hire Sam Allardyce or Steve Bruce.

Most savage comment so far is from TristerLookan:  "United become everything they laughed once. Spending money like City, talking about history like Liverpool, aiming 4th place like Arsenal and changing managers like Chelsea."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2018/dec/18/manchester-united-sack-jose-mourinho-michael-carrick-interim-charge-reaction-and-analysis-live#comment-123888694

The theme song is also good:  https://twitter.com/swedemason/status/1074977641999097856/video/1

[A Horse Named Stranger]

22 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

But it’s a very appealing opportunity for someone now: tons of money, a very low bar has been set, and the fans will rapturously embrace any improvement. 

I wouldn't be so sure. I saw that at our neighbours. Once a big hitter, then hit or miss seasons with lots of managers coming and going, and still a fan scene that felt it was their god given right to have European football, while having running a deficit with an overpaid squad. So there's a realistic chance imho that the United chalice is quite poisonous.

Ofc United is nowhere near edging towards bankruptcy or relegating (like those who must never be named), but I think the fanscene with a club as big as ours should at least be competing for the title (CL qualification as a given) is quite real.

[Heartofice]

35 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

But it’s a very appealing opportunity for someone now: tons of money, a very low bar has been set, and the fans will rapturously embrace any improvement. 

Jose came in with the exact same low bar.. and somehow managed to find a way to fall below it.

You get the sense there is something rotten in the structure of the club preventing real success. That has to worry any manager coming in.

[polishgenius]

I'm happy.

[Wilbur]

41 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Please let Manchester United fulfill their destiny and hire Sam Allardyce or Steve Bruce.

Most savage comment so far is from TristerLookan:  "United become everything they laughed once. Spending money like City, talking about history like Liverpool, aiming 4th place like Arsenal and changing managers like Chelsea."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2018/dec/18/manchester-united-sack-jose-mourinho-michael-carrick-interim-charge-reaction-and-analysis-live#comment-123888694

The theme song is also good:  https://twitter.com/swedemason/status/1074977641999097856/video/1

Rangers have an excellent, young manager that the board could consider as the successor.  He has his teams playing attractive, attacking football and a history of scoring key goals as a player in Manchester United matches.

[Iskaral Pust]

United and Real Madrid may both be chasing a new manager in the summer.  I don’t know that Solari really has that position nailed down yet (fans booed the last two games), and I cannot imagine RM taking Mourinho back.  I hope United don’t get Pochettino, whether Spurs hang onto him or Madrid make a move for him.  It’s pretty plausible for Pochettino to think he has taken Spurs as far as he can with their budget.  They had a glorious window of opportunity, but let Leicester win the league instead.

I hope United finally abandon these turgid defensive managers.  They’ve been like an Allardyce or Pulis team for years now.  Conte would be another step in that direction.

I wonder if Southgate or Howe might be in contention.  

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

Please let Manchester United fulfill their destiny and hire Sam Allardyce or Steve Bruce.

Most savage comment so far is from TristerLookan:  "United become everything they laughed once. Spending money like City, talking about history like Liverpool, aiming 4th place like Arsenal and changing managers like Chelsea."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2018/dec/18/manchester-united-sack-jose-mourinho-michael-carrick-interim-charge-reaction-and-analysis-live#comment-123888694

The theme song is also good:  https://twitter.com/swedemason/status/1074977641999097856/video/1

That poster (TristerLookan) is quite the moron.

Spending money like City: It's not like United only started spending money recently. Besides that there is a difference between a club spending money earned through success, building up the brand and leveraging the massive global support versus a club being financially doped by some of the worst human rights abusers on the planet. But....City play great football so who cares about slavery, right?

Talking about history like Liverpool: United have been struggling in recent years but we've still managed to win more silverware than Liverpool in that time. Besides that, there's nothing wrong with being proud of the history of the club you support. 

aiming 4th place like Arsenal: I don't recall any United manager describing 4th place as a trophy.

and changing managers like Chelsea: Apart from Busby and Ferguson, United have changed managers regularly. United not being a sacking club is a myth.

[Wilbur]

https://twitter.com/JamesPearceEcho/status/1074971217604567040/photo/1

[Wilbur]

In five months David Moyes' initial contract as Manchester United manager will run out.

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

 

That is ART.

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

United and Real Madrid may both be chasing a new manager in the summer.  I don’t know that Solari really has that position nailed down yet (fans booed the last two games), and I cannot imagine RM taking Mourinho back.  I hope United don’t get Pochettino, whether Spurs hang onto him or Madrid make a move for him.  It’s pretty plausible for Pochettino to think he has taken Spurs as far as he can with their budget.  They had a glorious window of opportunity, but let Leicester win the league instead.

I hope United finally abandon these turgid defensive managers.  They’ve been like an Allardyce or Pulis team for years now.  Conte would be another step in that direction.

I wonder if Southgate or Howe might be in contention.  

Dunno if Howe or Southgate would be in contention - I doubt either would be high up on the list though. Southgate's managerial career at club level is mediocre at best and Howe, while playing entertaining football, has only seen any sort of success at Bournemouth. I also see him as a manager in the mould of Martinez - someone who can get his side to play good attacking football but clueless when it comes to defensive organisation.

Journalists have certainly hopped aboard the clicks train and are throwing around names of every possible candidate. Quite a few saying that Poch is the #1 target and Simon Stone, who is usually very reliable when it comes to United, has said that the club is going to be looking at DoF options again (apparently Mourinho was refusing to have a DoF above him). Paul Mitchell is a popular name being touted - he's currently at Leipzig but has worked with Poch at both Southampton and Spurs previously.

I agree that we really need to avoid appointing another ultra-conservative, win-no-matter-what type manager. The entertainment side is important too and I have not looked forward to watching United play for a long time. I'd even take Bielsa if we can't get Poch. He's a nutter but he sure as hell knows how to coach teams to play eye-catching high tempo attacking football and he has a big reputation as well - not in trophy terms but certainly regarded as a revolutionary manager, held in high regard and considered to be an inspiration by the likes of Pochettino, Klopp and Guardiola.

[ljkeane]

I think what United need to do is commit to the style of football they want (presumably attacking football with some emphasis on bringing through youth players) and hire a director of football to consistently build towards that potentially over the next few managers. If they could get Pochettino that'd be great for them but I don't think Howe would be a terrible idea if they can't, he'd just needs to be hired with the understanding that even if he doesn't work out they need to recruit to a consistent plan and the next manager has to be hired to fit the mould they want too.

[polishgenius]

There's no way Bielsa can be our long term dude- he's not exactly a consistent keeper of a happy dressing room himself historically- but I'd certainly love him as caretaker till the end of the season. Dunno if he'd take that though.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

If you want an attacking coach, Peter Bosz is also on the market, if you don't get scared away by his short reign at Dortmund, but that was in fairness really more down to the squad lacking players with the right attitude.

[Consigliere]

4 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

There's no way Bielsa can be our long term dude- he's not exactly a consistent keeper of a happy dressing room himself historically- but I'd certainly love him as caretaker till the end of the season. Dunno if he'd take that though.

I know he's not a long termer but I wouldn't mind him on a short term contract if we can't get Poch. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone better than him at coaching attacking football. He'd quickly coach the taste of Moyes, LVG and Mourinho out of this club. The key would be hiring someone in a similar mould once he leaves. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 minute ago, Consigliere said:

He'd quickly coach the taste of Moyes, LVG and Mourinho out of this club

I think you are really being too harsh on Louis here. He took over the unthankful task of starting the rebuild after Ferguson (and the lost year under Moyes), and he set you at least in the right direction generally speaking, and he integrated  Rashford and Lingard into the first team. So he really didn't fare that poorly considering all circumstances. Even when he got the boot, he at least left with an FA cup as a farewell gift. And he did not spend the same amounts Jose did.

[Wilbur]

Manchester United's problem is probably larger than just hiring a DOF and a manager to stabilize them in their role as a mid-table club.  The entire ownership structure of the club is rotten, and has been since the Glazers decided to monetize football.

"...most of the blame for the club’s persistent failure rests with the behind-the-scenes leadership. It’s been five years since Sir Alex stepped down, and it’s hard to think of a single decision, big or small, the club has gotten right since. Every managerial hire has been bad. Almost every cent of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds the club has spent on players has been spent either poorly or without vision. A club that was once at the very top of the world, one that had gotten so obscenely rich that it was almost literally too big to fail, is now comfortably the fifth- or sixth-best team in England..."

https://deadspin.com/jose-mourinhos-failed-tenure-at-manchester-united-is-fi-1831170461

"United’s pursuit of Pochettino fits the same pattern of way too much of United’s thinking over the past few years: the delusional chase for a someone almost certainly outside their grasp in hopes that this person can serve as a cure-all for the deep rot the club’s decision-makers behave as if they are oblivious to..."

[polishgenius]

There's a lot of reaching going on there. The problem has, by and large, been that Woodward doesn't know shit about the footballing side of it and keeps hiring the wrong manager as a result, while also finding it difficult to reign the worst tendencies of said managers in - there isn't a partnership that Fergie had with Gill. But that's not a deep hard-to-see unfixable rotten-ness, that's Woodward and needing to get one more layer between him and the direct footballing side of the club.

 

The desire to get a DoF points pretty clearly to the idea that someone in charge does know that there is a problem.

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I think you are really being too harsh on Louis here. He took over the unthankful task of starting the rebuild after Ferguson (and the lost year under Moyes), and he set you at least in the right direction generally speaking, and he integrated  Rashford and Lingard into the first team. So he really didn't fare that poorly considering all circumstances. Even when he got the boot, he at least left with an FA cup as a farewell gift. And he did not spend the same amounts Jose did.

Sure, LVG had a tough task and he did a decent enough job. I was referring to the brand of football which was just plain horrible.

 

57 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Manchester United's problem is probably larger than just hiring a DOF and a manager to stabilize them in their role as a mid-table club.  The entire ownership structure of the club is rotten, and has been since the Glazers decided to monetize football.

United are NOT a midtable club. United finished in the top 6 every season bar one since SAF retired. How can consistently finishing in the top 6 be considered midtable? It's just silly to say that. While the Glazers aren't great owners, they did not "monetize football". Football was monetized long before with every top club scrambling to get their piece of the pie in first the Asian and then US markets. England's "big five" clubs during the 80's pushed for a breakaway from the Football League for more money, the European Cup going from League winners only to including more sides was not done out of goodwill; it was done for more money. All long before the Glazers showed up.