Football: The art of lowering expectations

[Jordan La Cabra]

I only saw the highlights of the Wolves game but I was over at Stamford Bridge for the PAOK and Fulham matches. Games where teams sit off us, like PAOK, we tend to do better. In the first half against Fulham, they offered very little, so we were able to get a goal then control the game. At half time, they made a couple of substitutions and really started to bring the game to us, pressing the ball and targeting the wide areas. Callum Chambers came close to scoring twice. Loftus-Cheek made a difference when he came on, and was able to score to put it to 2-0 and win the game, but by the looks of the highlights, the game against Wolves was very similar. We seemed to dominate the first half but only scored the one goal; Wolves, like Fulham, played a lot better in the second half, but unlike Fulham, they were able to score.

At the moment, it seems like we have the quality to create chances, but the lack of quality to take them, which means teams like Wolves can grow in confidence by staying in games, knowing that a goal is all they need to turn the tie. Man United fans who watched the game between us and them will know how much you can get at Chelsea if you stay in the game long enough to gain momentum and get a goal. The first half at of that game at Stamford Bridge, we completely controlled the game, Morata missed a sitter early in the second, and Man United started to play and press, turning the game from being 0-1 down to being 2-1 up with two goals in quick succession.

Against world class opposition like Man City, they will be looking to take the game to us right from the start rather than hoping to stay in the game and get the odd chance. Our high defensive line coupled with the fact our full backs aren't the quickest means team get chances us. The Arsenal game was the best example. Bellerin kept getting in behind to create chances with cut back crosses. That was a game we won, but also a game that Arsenal had more than enough chances to win. 

Everytime we don't win a game people will question Sarri not playing Kante as a defensive midfielder, but I saw against Fulham exactly why Sarri plays Kante where he does. In the first half, he was able to win the ball high and in the Fulham half, before playing Pedro in for the opener. In general, though, Kante was very good that day. Against opposition we expect to beat, I agree with Kante being played further forward, but against stronger opposition, especially away from home, a 4-2-3-1 with Kante alongside Jorginho might be the best option. However, Sarri seems set in his 4-3-3, with his particular style, and I can why Sarri thinks that, in his system, Kante in the middle of the midfield three wouldn't work as well as a more technical midfielder like Jorginho or Fabregas.

 

 

[Calibandar]

I can totally understand other club fans howling with laughter at what is happening with United.

I would bear such fans zero ill will. 

It's a completely self inflicted injury by the club, which everyone knew and said would be one big recipe for disaster, and so it has happened. The only question people ask themselves week in week out, is why, why is he still there?

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Calibandar said:

I can totally understand other club fans howling with laughter at what is happening with United.

I would bear such fans zero ill will. 

It's a completely self inflicted injury by the club, which everyone knew and said would be one big recipe for disaster, and so it has happened. The only question people ask themselves week in week out, is why, why is he still there?

The question I guess is, who is around to replace him?

Poch? I doubt he'd leave Spurs right now. Blanc has been rumoured but nah, Zidane also but despite his record there is the sense he's not as good as he seems.

[Consigliere]

Reports in the Netherlands saying that PSG have beaten City and Barca in the race to sign Frenkie de Jong. Reports say that PSG have agreed a €75m transfer fee with Ajax for De Jong to join next season. Willem II (de Jong's former club) are entitled to 15% of the transfer fee.

[Consigliere]

12 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The question I guess is, who is around to replace him?

Poch? I doubt he'd leave Spurs right now. Blanc has been rumoured but nah, Zidane also but despite his record there is the sense he's not as good as he seems.

I don't want Blanc anywhere near United. I've read comments from PSG and Bordeaux fans on other forums that Blanc is very hands-off and relied heavily on Gasset for coaching and tactical setup at both clubs. Gasset is now managing Saint Étienne so it's anybody's guess how Blanc would get on without him. He's been out of a job for over 2 years now - there must be some reason for that. Plus, the controversy he caused circa. 2011 about wanting France to have race quotas and training fewer black kids stereotyping black players as pace merchants really soured me on Blanc.

I don't think Zidane would be interested in the United job although he is precisely the sort of big name that Woodward would go after. For me personally given that our season is basically a write-off already, I'd rather the club start preparing for next season. Give Kieran McKenna the job on an interim basis until the end of the season, put in place a modern footballing structure above the manager over the next couple of months and task the new DoF with selecting the next manager because Woodward cannot be trusted to hire a manager who is a good fit - he would just go for the biggest name available and hope for the best. 

I also wouldn't mind Bielsa on a short term contract. What United severely lack at the moment is good coaching and a positive playing style. Bielsa might be a nutjob and his intensity tends to burn out squads but you'd be hard pressed to find a better coach than him. He would quickly coach the taste of turgid football out of United. If he can completely transform the playing style of a squad that finished 13th in the Championship last season then I'm sure he can do a similar job at United. 

There are other managers besides Poch as well. Pablo Machín is widely considered to be the best young coach in Spain and is someone who is very much in the mould of Pochettino. Then there's also Quique Setién and Jardim.

[Calibandar]

I'd be fine with Zidane being given the shot, given available candidates.

Is he as good as he seemed at Madrid? We don't know, we'd have to find out, but he'd be very high on my list of candidates. 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

You know that Zidane had better players at his disposal at Madrid?

Realistically, you will need to really start almost from scratch, and pretty much replace the entire squad during the next couple of years. All those Mourinho signings that will hit their thirties, plus the aging players that were there already. And then, let's see whether Pogba wants to stick around for the rebuilding process - or force a move to greener pastures.

 

[BigFatCoward]

If Eddie Howe had an exotic name he'd be in the conversation. 

[Iskaral Pust]

The intensity of games over the next two months means that any new manager will have no impact through coaching, only from the burst of relief among players from being free of the Dementor.  There would be a transfer window, but with limited availability and still Woodward in the background.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Ideally, United would want to start with their DoF appointment anyway, and then get a manager and then bring in the players wanted/needed by the new guys in charge.

But apparently Mou's contract has closed down that avenue to some extent, too.

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Ideally, United would want to start with their DoF appointment anyway, and then get a manager and then bring in the players wanted/needed by the new guys in charge.

But apparently Mou's contract has closed down that avenue to some extent, too.

I find it strange that a major worldwide side would not have some for of DoF to oversee transfers these days. Most managers barely last 3 years at which point you need to rush to get a whole new raft of players in for the next manager. Most teams seem to have cottoned onto the realisation that long term planning, having a consistent team playing style can lead to success. Letting Mourinho bring in a bunch of players that match his own specific style doesn't make a lot of sense.. maybe thats why he's so grumpy. 

I really don't think United have a bad squad however, their weak area is definitely fullback if they feel they need to play Young! But most of their purchases on paper seem pretty good. Something at the club means they are not playing to their full potential. Whether that is as simple as the manager I don't know.

[Mark Antony]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Realistically, you will need to really start almost from scratch, and pretty much replace the entire squad during the next couple of years. .

Embarrassing considering the money spent in the last few years. 

[mormont]

49 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

If Eddie Howe had an exotic name he'd be in the conversation. 

Would he though? United tried the 'domestic manager with mid-table success' route quite recently, didn't go too well. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

17 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I find it strange that a major worldwide side would not have some for of DoF to oversee transfers these days. Most managers barely last 3 years at which point you need to rush to get a whole new raft of players in for the next manager. Most teams seem to have cottoned onto the realisation that long term planning, having a consistent team playing style can lead to success. Letting Mourinho bring in a bunch of players that match his own specific style doesn't make a lot of sense.. maybe thats why he's so grumpy. 

British Manager model. They were traditionally the strong men in charge of their clubs, Liverpool has moved towards the DoF model rather recently, too. And United have not done too badly historically with that model.

 

18 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I really don't think United have a bad squad however, their weak area is definitely fullback if they feel they need to play Young! But most of their purchases on paper seem pretty good. Something at the club means they are not playing to their full potential. Whether that is as simple as the manager I don't know.

The age structure is not that great. Most of their players are 30+ or are approaching their 30th birthday. And that's pretty much all parts of the team (with exception of their attack). So they will need a lot of replacements in the coming years. And while their team parts are not bad, they are also hardly top shelf stuff (with a few exceptions here and there de Gea comes to mind).

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

British Manager model. They were traditionally the strong men in charge of their clubs, Liverpool has moved towards the DoF model rather recently, too. And United have not done too badly historically with that model.

 

I guess that model works if you plan on having a manager in place for 20 years. Its not so great if you need to keep chopping and changing. 

 

4 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

The age structure is not that great. Most of their players are 30+ or are approaching their 30th birthday. And that's pretty much all parts of the team (with exception of their attack). So they will need a lot of replacements in the coming years. And while their team parts are not bad, they are also hardly top shelf stuff (with a few exceptions here and there de Gea comes to mind).

I'm not sure its as bad as everyone makes out. Rashford, Martial, Lindelof, Bailly, Shaw, Dalot, Pogba, Lingard, Fred, Lukaku are all mid to early 20's so the age issue is less of a worry as far as I'm concerned. I'd also rate every single one of those players as being worthy of a top 4 team or better (maybe not Dalot who is young, and Shaw due to injuries). All of them were highly rated when they arrived at Utd. Add in Sanchez, whatever you think of him currently he was at one point pretty much the best player in the prem and Utd should not being as bad as they are. 

I think there is definitely a good base to work from there and another manager could certainly do better with what he has. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

WIth regards to Martial, Rashford, and Lukaku I already said, their attack is pretty much the only part of the team that has no age problem.

Lindelof and Bailly I don't think they are top four material, at least not as regular starters (may another manager workng with them can convince me otherwise), but seriously, compare them to the starters at the other top four clubs and tell me where do you think they would be starters. Lingard is too inconsistent, I enjoy watching him as a footballer, but like I said, consistency is a bit of an issue with him. I am curious whether Pogba will stick around or force a move, I've said that much a few posts ago. Shaw is good but injury prone. That leaves Fred.

Their more established quality players like Matic, Mata, Herrera, Sanchez, Valencia are not gonna be there in 4-5 years.

[Heartofice]

Well both Lindelof and especially Bailly were highly rated before they arrived at Utd, now everyone views them as rubbish ( Lindelof was pretty awful as soon as he put on a Utd jersey). I think both have potential to turn things around and hit better form. I honestly think with the right manager they could get into any top 4 team except City. 

Central midfield does look a little concerning but McTominay is young and while I don;t think he's great he could go on to be a regular. 

As I say, I think there is at least a base from which to build. I've seen so many people saying the squad is terrible and they all need to be ditched, but there are some good players there and enough to build on for the next few year if you add to the squad in the right way.

I think its just that the most noticeable transfers are enormous sums of money on often established players which leads to a view of short termism.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

19 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Well both Lindelof and especially Bailly were highly rated before they arrived at Utd, now everyone views them as rubbish ( Lindelof was pretty awful as soon as he put on a Utd jersey). I think both have potential to turn things around and hit better form. I honestly think with the right manager they could get into any top 4 team except City. 

Rubbish is too extreme. Bur they haven't really proven they are top shelf players either. I don't think Lindelof is any better than any of the following 3 Chelski players. Rüdiger, Christensen or even David Luiz. He is also not better than Liverpool's van Dijk or Gomez. Of the latter I believe he is a legit generational talent as centreback (not as right back). Tottenham's centrebacks are also better.

[Consigliere]

I don't think United need a complete overhaul. Certainly saying we have to start from scratch and replace basically the entire team is downright false. We need to do what Guardiola did at City i.e. revamp the defence. Guardiola axed their 30/30+ fullbacks and brought in Walker, Mendy and Danilo. He got rid of Demichelis and Mangala and brought in Stones and Laporte.

We need to get rid of Valencia, Young, Jones, Rojo, Darmian and Smalling. Sign two fullbacks and two CBs and bring Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe into the squad for added depth. A big difference also is that the likes of Guardiola, Poch and Klopp have actually improved players whereas just about every single player at United has regressed under Mourinho. If Gomez and Stones (who while being a good ball playing CB tended to be a defensive liability) were United players, people would be saying they are crap too - in fact Mourinho would have convinced people that they are not good enough just like he has done with Lindelof and Bailly both of whom were highly rated players until Mourinho got his hands on them. 

[Heartofice]

5 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

I don't think United need a complete overhaul. Certainly saying we have to start from scratch and replace basically the entire team is downright false. We need to do what Guardiola did at City i.e. revamp the defence. Guardiola axed their 30/30+ fullbacks and brought in Walker, Mendy and Danilo. He got rid of Demichelis and Mangala and brought in Stones and Laporte.

We need to get rid of Valencia, Young, Jones, Rojo, Darmian and Smalling. Sign two fullbacks and two CBs and bring Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe into the squad for added depth. A big difference also is that the likes of Guardiola, Poch and Klopp have actually improved players whereas just about every single player at United has regressed under Mourinho. If Gomez and Stones (who while being a good ball playing CB tended to be a defensive liability) were United players, people would be saying they are crap too - in fact Mourinho would have convinced people that they are not good enough just like he has done with Lindelof and Bailly both of whom were highly rated players until Mourinho got his hands on them. 

Pep also brought in players that would fit the way he wanted to play. That is the big part of his success, more than any one individual player. The team are seemingly onboard with his gameplan and he brought in defenders and goalkeepers who are comfortable on the ball and flexible.