Jump to content
Ser Dips A lot

Ranking the best warriors at the start of asoiaf

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Ser Dips A lot said:

I know GRRM has confessed that Dayne is the undisputed GOAT in Westeros, besting Selmy with Dawn but going 50/50 with him without it. So those two, are undoubtedly the best, what does GRRM actually say about Jaime?? Just “legendary” or something like that but what does that entail. I don’t dispute the fact that he is indeed #1 at the start of the series. I just wonder what the Kingslayer would do against other “legendary” fighters such as The Dragonknight, Daemon Blackfyre, etc.

GRRM called Jaime as one of the best swordsmen in the history of Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Ser Dips A lot said:

I know GRRM has confessed that Dayne is the undisputed GOAT in Westeros, besting Selmy with Dawn but going 50/50 with him without it. So those two, are undoubtedly the best, what does GRRM actually say about Jaime?? Just “legendary” or something like that but what does that entail. I don’t dispute the fact that he is indeed #1 at the start of the series. I just wonder what the Kingslayer would do against other “legendary” fighters such as The Dragonknight, Daemon Blackfyre, etc.

In regards to Jaime, Martin said he is one of the best ever, and grrm is the kind of author who would have a couple of goats not just one, then we can dispute between fans who would have the edge... Barristan himself thought jaime a prodigy and what he acomplished as a teen is impressive... so imo he is a hair short of barri/dayne sword skill level but still well above the rest

Regardind Dayne i believe he and Selmy are the greatest sword users, arthur has the weapon edge but not the skill one on barristan, give selmy a vs sword nad it's tied, if we go besides sword skill in every fight angle, Barry is superior then again it's Barristan "unreal feats" Selmy... regardless they are the best 2 swords in history imo

Prime robert is different, a warhammer is superior to any sword in a 1v1 with armour duel, his genetics are on point for h2h combat of all sorts, and his feats at such a short time as a young man are only on par with Selmy, so potential wise he could have become the god of war

Daemon BF or Aemon DK or Cregan Stark are all guys >100 years in the past, and nutrition and knowledge are always evolving, they are still better than 98% of asoiaf timeline guys but not the elites imo, between timeline goats the modern ones are always better because time is the boss of all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barristan Selmy... the way he scape from Jeoffrey, he doesn't need a sword to be lethal... 

The Mountain... a fucking monster...

Jaime... just glorious, a prodigy

Oberyn, so much experience in war we can't ignore...

Loras... also a prodigy

Khal Drogo In a lifetime of war, his braid was never cutted... when undone, his hair gets down to his feet...

Is really Ser Bronn of the Blackwater unworthy of mention?

well, if the time window is a little wider, Arthur Dayne, Rhaegar and Robert should be on the list... from F&B Sandoq the Shadow really impresed me, Duncan the Tall, Lyonel Baratheon...
 

Edited by MushroomIsNoFool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, MushroomIsNoFool said:

 

Khal Drogo In a lifetime of war, his braid was never cutted... when undone, his hair gets down to his feet...

Is really Ser Bronn of the Blackwater unworthy of mention?

well, if the time window is a little wider, Arthur Dayne, Rhaegar and Robert should be on the list... from F&B Sandoq the Shadow really impresed me, Duncan the Tall, Lyonel Baratheon...
 

Drogo's abilities are often underestimated, mainly due to his battles being waged without armour. I agree with your take that he deserves a place - while we don't get to actually ever see him in action, the size of his braid, his Khalasar, his determination and his body should be evidence enough of the man's skill/gifts.

"A head taller than everyone in the room", Drogo sounds about 6'4 - all rippling, lean muscle. Considering his daily routine involves riding for the majority of the time, one would imagine his cardio would also be pretty high level. 

Your point about Sandoq does bring to mind the idea of Drogo being comparable style wise. If we discount Sandoq's arakh being Valyrian Steel, it's easy to imagine a combat situation where the great Khal's use of the curved blade would overcome armoured knights, as the arakh allows for a greater range of movement, with rolling, circular parries and deep banking angles not usually associated with long/bastard swordplay.

An issue might be Drogo's quality of competition. While he probably doesn't have a great deal of time served defeating classically trained, armoured knights, it's probably that he has dealt with a good few armour wearing sellswords who have had Westerosi style combat tuition. We also know most Dothraki are tough, being trained to hunt, ride and fight from an early age - none of them were able to topple the King of the Horselords. 

Now, don't get me wrong - if this were an unarmed, hand to hand pit fight, I reckon the Khal of Khals would probably defeat the majority of people on the OP list (yes, perhaps even including the Mountain, who Drogo wouldn't be totally dwarved by, would be a lot faster than, and probably would be just as violent as).

I always picture an unarmed Drogo to fight in a Muay Thai esque style, with strong use of the eight limbs, his elbow attacks coming in from similar wild angles to those of his arakh. Coming from a travelling, unruly, machismo influenced society, one would also imagine he would have greater time spent grappling/wrestling than the likes of Jaime or Barristan. The great Khal's legs and forearms would be strong as oaks, from the time spent in the saddle/using his arakh, so he would have some serious explosive power with which to initiate a takedown attempt. If Drogo could get his opponent to the ground and mount them, I'd imagine his size, strength experience riding horses would make it a nightmare to try and shake him off. 

Bron has always impressed me, and I do wonder how much of his skill/ experience he downplays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Drogo's abilities are often underestimated, mainly due to his battles being waged without armour. I agree with your take that he deserves a place - while we don't get to actually ever see him in action, the size of his braid, his Khalasar, his determination and his body should be evidence enough of the man's skill/gifts.

"A head taller than everyone in the room", Drogo sounds about 6'4 - all rippling, lean muscle. Considering his daily routine involves riding for the majority of the time, one would imagine his cardio would also be pretty high level. 

Your point about Sandoq does bring to mind the idea of Drogo being comparable style wise. If we discount Sandoq's arakh being Valyrian Steel, it's easy to imagine a combat situation where the great Khal's use of the curved blade would overcome armoured knights, as the arakh allows for a greater range of movement, with rolling, circular parries and deep banking angles not usually associated with long/bastard swordplay.

An issue might be Drogo's quality of competition. While he probably doesn't have a great deal of time served defeating classically trained, armoured knights, it's probably that he has dealt with a good few armour wearing sellswords who have had Westerosi style combat tuition. We also know most Dothraki are tough, being trained to hunt, ride and fight from an early age - none of them were able to topple the King of the Horselords. 

Now, don't get me wrong - if this were an unarmed, hand to hand pit fight, I reckon the Khal of Khals would probably defeat the majority of people on the OP list (yes, perhaps even including the Mountain, who Drogo wouldn't be totally dwarved by, would be a lot faster than, and probably would be just as violent as).

I always picture an unarmed Drogo to fight in a Muay Thai esque style, with strong use of the eight limbs, his elbow attacks coming in from similar wild angles to those of his arakh. Coming from a travelling, unruly, machismo influenced society, one would also imagine he would have greater time spent grappling/wrestling than the likes of Jaime or Barristan. The great Khal's legs and forearms would be strong as oaks, from the time spent in the saddle/using his arakh, so he would have some serious explosive power with which to initiate a takedown attempt. If Drogo could get his opponent to the ground and mount them, I'd imagine his size, strength experience riding horses would make it a nightmare to try and shake him off. 

Bron has always impressed me, and I do wonder how much of his skill/ experience he downplays.

*immature snigger*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/23/2019 at 12:19 PM, MushroomIsNoFool said:

Barristan Selmy... the way he scape from Jeoffrey, he doesn't need a sword to be lethal... 

The Mountain... a fucking monster...

Jaime... just glorious, a prodigy

Oberyn, so much experience in war we can't ignore...

Loras... also a prodigy

Khal Drogo In a lifetime of war, his braid was never cutted... when undone, his hair gets down to his feet...

Is really Ser Bronn of the Blackwater unworthy of mention?

well, if the time window is a little wider, Arthur Dayne, Rhaegar and Robert should be on the list... from F&B Sandoq the Shadow really impresed me, Duncan the Tall, Lyonel Baratheon...
 

Ser Bronn is simply Bronn the unknown sellsword at the beginng of the series (which is what the OP asked) :). He does deserve some praise though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/23/2019 at 2:19 PM, MushroomIsNoFool said:

Barristan Selmy... the way he scape from Jeoffrey, he doesn't need a sword to be lethal... 

The Mountain... a fucking monster...

Jaime... just glorious, a prodigy

Oberyn, so much experience in war we can't ignore...

Loras... also a prodigy

Khal Drogo In a lifetime of war, his braid was never cutted... when undone, his hair gets down to his feet...

Is really Ser Bronn of the Blackwater unworthy of mention?

well, if the time window is a little wider, Arthur Dayne, Rhaegar and Robert should be on the list... from F&B Sandoq the Shadow really impresed me, Duncan the Tall, Lyonel Baratheon...
 

My god! I didn't mentioned Victarion...

That duel against Talbert Serry... just epic!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While theoricaly Drogo is a great warrior, we don't have any proof of it. I mean, he is pure hell at chest-beating contest but to be in my list, it must be "show, don't tell". Having the bigest braid is like having the shinniest sword, really.  I don't think Drogo isn't counted as great becouse he doesn't wear armor. Is becouse we never see him fighting. And the only time he is in a battle, he gets a nasty wound and ends with a pathetic (but not underserved) death.

Dothraki boasting shouldn't be overestimated. I mean, they haven't had a real battle for many years. Free cities prefers bribes than wars, and poor lamb men are simply victims. Yeah, they fight among themselves, but many riders can choose changing sides instead of being defeated, so isn't really epic. 

 

The Mountain is even a worse person than Drogo, but at least we now he is able to destroy alone an infantry schlitron. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, MushroomIsNoFool said:

My god! I didn't mentioned Victarion...

That duel against Talbert Serry... just epic!

I really liked that chapter! it had heavy battle+new land description+ politic intrigue. 

Victarion is a tough warrior indeed. Maybe top ten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree on warrior being a more encompassing set of skills.  

Gregor is the best fighter.  His freakish size give him the upper hand.  He’s the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Agree on warrior being a more encompassing set of skills.  

Gregor is the best fighter.  His freakish size give him the upper hand.  He’s the best.

come on bro!

Oberyn could have defeated him if he hasn't been such a crying bitch trying to make Gregor confess

Edited by MushroomIsNoFool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, the Last Teague said:

While theoricaly Drogo is a great warrior, we don't have any proof of it. I mean, he is pure hell at chest-beating contest but to be in my list, it must be "show, don't tell". Having the bigest braid is like having the shinniest sword, really.  I don't think Drogo isn't counted as great becouse he doesn't wear armor. Is becouse we never see him fighting. And the only time he is in a battle, he gets a nasty wound and ends with a pathetic (but not underserved) death.

Dothraki boasting shouldn't be overestimated. I mean, they haven't had a real battle for many years. Free cities prefers bribes than wars, and poor lamb men are simply victims. Yeah, they fight among themselves, but many riders can choose changing sides instead of being defeated, so isn't really epic. 

 

The Mountain is even a worse person than Drogo, but at least we now he is able to destroy alone an infantry schlitron. 

 

 

Respectfully disagree regarding Drogo. 

 

4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Agree on warrior being a more encompassing set of skills.  

Gregor is the best fighter.  His freakish size give him the upper hand.  He’s the best.

He lost the only one on one we saw him fight in. Gregor has not one-on-one won anything (cough including the tourney for the sport called the joust). A freak in platemail and a tank on the battlefield. Good fighter yes but not the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/9/2018 at 7:21 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Edit

I will admit that after reading F&B, I am really disappointed that Martin picked the Starks as our protagonist family, but kept all of their supreme level characters in the distant past (Cregan and Theon Stark come to mind), and gave us a bunch of mediocre weaklings instead.

Cregan seems to have combined Tywin Lannister level willpower and presence, with Jaime Lannister level fighting skills, while Theon was the war leader you needed when the fate of humanity was at stake. Instead, we got Ned and Robb. 

Oh well.

I've had that thought before. LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/24/2019 at 9:03 AM, Leo of House Cartel said:

Drogo's abilities are often underestimated, mainly due to his battles being waged without armour. I agree with your take that he deserves a place - while we don't get to actually ever see him in action, the size of his braid, his Khalasar, his determination and his body should be evidence enough of the man's skill/gifts.

"A head taller than everyone in the room", Drogo sounds about 6'4 - all rippling, lean muscle. Considering his daily routine involves riding for the majority of the time, one would imagine his cardio would also be pretty high level. 

Your point about Sandoq does bring to mind the idea of Drogo being comparable style wise. If we discount Sandoq's arakh being Valyrian Steel, it's easy to imagine a combat situation where the great Khal's use of the curved blade would overcome armoured knights, as the arakh allows for a greater range of movement, with rolling, circular parries and deep banking angles not usually associated with long/bastard swordplay.

An issue might be Drogo's quality of competition. While he probably doesn't have a great deal of time served defeating classically trained, armoured knights, it's probably that he has dealt with a good few armour wearing sellswords who have had Westerosi style combat tuition. We also know most Dothraki are tough, being trained to hunt, ride and fight from an early age - none of them were able to topple the King of the Horselords. 

Now, don't get me wrong - if this were an unarmed, hand to hand pit fight, I reckon the Khal of Khals would probably defeat the majority of people on the OP list (yes, perhaps even including the Mountain, who Drogo wouldn't be totally dwarved by, would be a lot faster than, and probably would be just as violent as).

I always picture an unarmed Drogo to fight in a Muay Thai esque style, with strong use of the eight limbs, his elbow attacks coming in from similar wild angles to those of his arakh. Coming from a travelling, unruly, machismo influenced society, one would also imagine he would have greater time spent grappling/wrestling than the likes of Jaime or Barristan. The great Khal's legs and forearms would be strong as oaks, from the time spent in the saddle/using his arakh, so he would have some serious explosive power with which to initiate a takedown attempt. If Drogo could get his opponent to the ground and mount them, I'd imagine his size, strength experience riding horses would make it a nightmare to try and shake him off. 

Bron has always impressed me, and I do wonder how much of his skill/ experience he downplays.

I think Drogo is badass, I won’t rob him of that. He’s a master horseman with considerable skills in melee, whom I believe is also even referred to as a “demon” archer. Maybe I have him confused with someone else regarding the archer portion, but he’s skilled in a fighting style that doesn’t necessary equal inordinate success in Westeros combat. Saying he belongs in my top 10 is not justified. Perhaps he could occasionally beat a warrior named in my top 10 with precision, timing, and a little bit of luck, but even that’s a stretch. Anyways the topic is pertaining to greatest “warrior” and although Drogo is a formidable one, he’s on a different playing field with a significant disadvantage; no heavy armor and/or a double edged sword for thrusting through plate...the arahk simply won’t work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll go by accomplishments and deeds that I remember here -

 

1. Jaime Lannister

- Cut down a bunch of men at the Whispering Wood whilst trying to get to Robb Stark

- Was able to match Brienne while being chained and after months of captivity probably not being properly fed

 

2. Barristan Selmy

- Past deeds in the War of the Ninepenny Kings, Duskendale, vs the Kingswood Brotherhood

- Killed a bunch of men trying to apprehend him WITHOUT a weapon

 

3. The Hound

- Won The Hand's Tourney, beat Jaime in the jousting

- Fended off The Mountain without trying to kill him

 

4. Oberyn Martell

- MERKED The Mountain (revenge drive aside)

 

5. The Mountain

- Big mtoherfucker who is probably the benchmark for fighters in Westeros

 

Westeros is superior to Essos and nobody from there gets into the top 10 imo, the level of fighting is far better in Westeros, change my mind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2019 at 12:56 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

Agree on warrior being a more encompassing set of skills.  

Gregor is the best fighter.  His freakish size give him the upper hand.  He’s the best.

So let’s say there’s a trial by combat in King’s Landing for some reason, and Gregor Clegane must fight to protect himself from execution, you don’t think anyone could beat him? Sandor, Barristan, or Jaime? 

He’s a freakish brute indeed, but smashing through shield walls and wreaking havoc on the battlefield against men at arms doesn’t make him the best fighter. Yes, it makes him a force to be reckoned with but if it’s a one on one, he’s gonna be in trouble with someone who’s at legendary status like Jaime or Barristan in his prime. I imagine fighting against him in a full pitched battle would give him an advantage because of the chaos and frenzy of bodies all around but he’s not the best fighter when weighing out true warrior instincts and abilities. He can kill anyone with one well placed blow and have a chance against anyone I named, but Oberyn exploited he’s beatable and exposed his weaknesses in one on one combat.

And I’d say Oberyn isn’t the best either, the spear was pivotal to his success in that duel, but I think Barristan, Jaime, and Sandor could all replicate that victory with sword in hand. Maybe not as pretty or elegant for Sandor because he also has brute strength and size, but I respectfully disagree with you when you say Gregor is the best fighter. He belongs in the top 10 and that’s it.

Edited by Ser Dips A lot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×