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Seaserpent

Is Alyssa Farman or Alys Westhill Quaithe?

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Elissa Farman or Alys Westhill went east to go west (just opposite direction) "to reach the west you must go to the east "  to Asshai or otherway around. In Asshai her ship the Stormcheaser was found by Corlys Valyryon. She is in possession of 3 dragon that she stole and has the knowledge to hatch them. People your thoughts? (Not my theory)

Edited by Seaserpent

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4 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

She sold the Dragon Eggs to fund her boat, crew and expedition West. 

Not if braavos was in on it. Dany dreamed from lemos trees and house with red door, what could be the sealords palace. She's been there as child maybe to hatch the eggs with viserys, when it was clear they did not hatch, the Targaryan children were send away (why let them stay but send them away after?). Quaithi has a glass candal were she could stay in contact with the sealord about thos eggs and how to hatch them.  There could be many more explanations. 1 thing we know for sure the sealord didnt gave them the eggs back, maybe because he did not have them. For all we know Alys could have another sponsor to bought that ship. Or Quaithi could have got new eggs in asshai, were there are many.

I also find the connection between Quaithi and braavos big. If Jorah ask who she is, she tells him "i am No-one"

- 3 dragon eggs
- To reach the east you must go west
- Only Westerosi woman with knowledge to went to asshai that we know of

I think this story is not a feel-good story, but has some more meaning to the novel.

Edited by Seaserpent

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3 minutes ago, Seaserpent said:

 There could be many more explanations. 1 thing we know for sure the sealord didnt gave them the eggs back, maybe because he did not have them.

Then how did she pay for the specially made boat she had made, how did she pay for the protection she hired as she sailed around the pirates of the Stepstones and how did she pay for the crews and supplies needed for her voyages?

Why would the Sealord insinuate that he did have them when his cities fate was in jeopardy? Why pay Westeros huge sums for eggs you don't actually have?

What exactly was Elissa's gameplan when she stole the eggs

  • to sell them and achieve her well established sailing dreams?

or

  • to hope that Braavos will give her huge sums of money for no reason in the hopes that she discovered a brand new land, discovered immortality (or a really effective oil of olay), come back, get the eggs back and secretly return them to a Targ in the hopes that Dragons (the creatures that ate her brother) can come back to life?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Then how did she pay for the specially made boat she had made, how did she pay for the protection she hired as she sailed around the pirates of the Stepstones and how did she pay for the crews and supplies needed for her voyages?

Why would the Sealord insinuate that he did have them when his cities fate was in jeopardy? Why pay Westeros huge sums for eggs you don't actually have?

What exactly was Elissa's gameplan when she stole the eggs

  • to sell them and achieve her well established sailing dreams?

or

  • to hope that Braavos will give her huge sums of money for no reason in the hopes that she discovered a brand new land, discovered immortality (or a really effective oil of olay), come back, get the eggs back and secretly return them to a Targ in the hopes that Dragons (the creatures that ate her brother) can come back to life?

 

 

I said its a possibility she paid with the eggs at that moment and the contact was made with the sealord after she studies in asshai to hatch them, for all we know she came back to the sealord with all the information he needed.

There are enough dragon eggs in asshai, so the three eggs i see more as a forshadowing for the numbre of eggs for Dany

The poeple who went with her she did not pay, they wanted the adventure, that is said in the book. Only water, ship and food. So 1 dragonegg is more that sufficient. But its possible she sold the sealord all 3 of them. At that stage she had no use with them.

The sealord took risk, but the things he said could allready put him in risk by insinuating that he had the eggs.

------------------

Her gameplay till asshai is exactly what is said in the book find new land. After Ashaii maybe with 1 egg or something, she became a shadowbinder like the real Quaithi also became at one moment. 

She is a strange figure, because what she did looks more like somebody urge her to steal the eggs and go to asshai. We only know couple of examples. One is Aegon V who was kinda possessed and Dany who went with the eggs in the fire and knew for sure she survived and the Dragons hatched.   

Edited by Seaserpent

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5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Then how did she pay for the specially made boat she had made, how did she pay for the protection she hired as she sailed around the pirates of the Stepstones and how did she pay for the crews and supplies needed for her voyages?

Why would the Sealord insinuate that he did have them when his cities fate was in jeopardy? Why pay Westeros huge sums for eggs you don't actually have?

What exactly was Elissa's gameplan when she stole the eggs

  • to sell them and achieve her well established sailing dreams?

or

  • to hope that Braavos will give her huge sums of money for no reason in the hopes that she discovered a brand new land, discovered immortality (or a really effective oil of olay), come back, get the eggs back and secretly return them to a Targ in the hopes that Dragons (the creatures that ate her brother) can come back to life?

 

 

Agreed. Braavos would not have built this extraordinary boat and give her huge sums of money to hire crew, without something back in return.

Furthermore it is known that Braavosi do not jape about dragons, nor do they like them. The opportunity to do business as well as acquire dragon eggs and PREVENT them from hatching would be something any Sealord, Iron Banker or Faceless Man would jump at. Acquiring three dragon eggs from a clutch of the sole remaining dragonlord family after the Doom of Valyria is a sure (at the time) way for the Braavosi to prevent the Targaryens from  potentially having three more dragons. And F&B reminds us that when eggs are taken away from heat sources this tends to lead to petrification of the eggs. This is exactly what the Sealord hinted at to Jaehaerys's envoy: no need to worry over us having three rocks. So, imo, the Sealord put them in one of the vaults of Braavos and let them petrify, and they likely were safe in that vault for over a century.

Then much much later, long after the dance and the last dragons had died out, say after the tragedy of Summerhal where a Targ king failed to hatch 7 petrified dragon eggs in a huge fire, some Iron Banker or Sealord (or servants of a just-dead-sealord who thought of making a buck) considered the already petrified eggs harmless, as impossible to hatch, and sold them for profit, to a cheesemonger of Pentos (who had partnered with Varys whose business it is to discover the whereabouts of items). The cheesemonger presented them as a wedding gift to a young Targ princess.

She does end up hatching the eggs, and the news of it reaches Braavos from sailing crews returning from Qarth. "Oops! Petrified, 200 year old dragon eggs can still be made to hatch," the Braavosi learn. Next, some Greyjoy shows up in Braavos with the request for the FM to have his brother killed at Pyke, so he can be king, and when they check his assets, they learn he has a petrified dragon egg. Learning from their mistake, they don't want Euron to give them the egg to keep in some vault, but ask him to throw it overboard from his ship to the depths of the sea, where nobody can get to it to sell to some cheesemonger for profit.

Edited by sweetsunray

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26 minutes ago, Seaserpent said:

I said its a possibility she paid with the eggs at that moment and the contact was made with the sealord after she studies in asshai to hatch them, for all we know she came back to the sealord with all the information he needed.

She was convinced of new lands. If Asshai was her goal she would have went East not West.

Her Sun Chaser had come to port in the last days of autumn, yet still she lingered at dockside as Lady Alys searched for a crew to sail her. She was proposing to do what only a handful of the boldest mariners had ever dared attempt before, to sail beyond the sunset in search of lands undreamed of....

 

....Alys Westhill did not believe it was. The scant writings she left behind show that even as a child Elissa Farman was convinced the world was “far larger and far stranger than the maesters imagine.” Not for her the merchant’s dream of reaching Ulthos and Asshai by sailing west. Hers was a bolder vision. Between Westeros and the far eastern shores of Essos and Ulthos, she believed, lay other lands and other seas waiting to be discovered: another Essos, another Sothoryos, another Westeros

 

26 minutes ago, Seaserpent said:

There are enough dragon eggs in asshai, so the three eggs i see more as a forshadowing for the numbre of eggs for Dany

How is this known to Alyssa?

26 minutes ago, Seaserpent said:

The poeple who went with her she did not pay, they wanted the adventure, that is said in the book. Only water, ship and food.

No, she paid the crew on her own ship.. The Hightower cousins had their own ships

The perilous passage through the pirate-infested waters of the Stepstones lay ahead, and Lady Alys was hiring crossbowmen and sellswords to see her safely through the straits to open water

and later in Oldtown

Some men laughed at her, whilst others called her mad, or cursed her to her face. “Strange beasts, aye,” one rival captain told her, “and like as not, you’ll end up in the belly of one.” A good portion of the gold that the Sealord had paid for her stolen dragon’s eggs reposed safely in the vaults of the Iron Bank of Braavos, however, and with such wealth behind her, Lady Alys was able to tempt sailors by paying thrice the wages other captains could offer. Slowly she began to gather willing hands.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

Elissa Farman or Alys Westhill went east to go west (just opposite direction) "to reach the west you must go to the east "  to Asshai or otherway around. In Asshai her ship the Stormcheaser was found by Corlys Valyryon. She is in possession of 3 dragon that she stole and has the knowledge to hatch them. People your thoughts? (Not my theory)

While I disagree with your idea of Alys having the dragon eggs, let alone hatching them, I do like the connection you make between Alys and Quaithe. I don't think Quaithe = Alys. But there is imo a reason why F&B suggests that Alys sailed around Planetos and docked in Asshai. Meanwhile Quaithe indeed uses a phrase that alludes to the spherical shape of Planetos.

One of the reasons I do not think Quaithe can be Alys is her mask. George hints at various genetic conditions with certain people that reflect to their skin: Bloodraven with albinism (though it does not affect his sight acuity), there are imo hints that the Qartheen and the people they derived of are a human version of "dominant white" (unpigmented skin, but dark eyes and hair). And then you have Asshai, a land where the sun rarely shines, with a soil you can grow no food on, a land where animals do not thrive, and children cannot be born, and yet somehow a city grew over the aeons. With the Forbidden City as an example of a human colony of people with a certain skin condition, Asshai is the ideal place for people suffering from the genetic condition that makes them allergic to light. So, it probably started as a colony for such people to lead a somewhat normal life, away from the sunlight (and scarring because of it). But in order to ensure that people would keep bringing them food (as they fail to do with the Forbidden City), these people built a trade in the sole thing remaning to them - magic - and this has been a success story to them.

Quaithe wears the facemask imo to shelter exposion of skin to the sunlight while she lives in Qarth, and most likely to hide the scars on her skin she amassed in her youth before she could seek shelter in Asshai.

That said, she might be a relative of Alys. Bloodraven we know to be old because of tree magic. Melisandre is alluded to be old, and likely is his daughter, also preserved by fire magic. Maester Aemon managed to grow old over a hundred years, because ice preserves. This certainly leaves room for a fourth character to have grown old on shadow magic.

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22 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

She was convinced of new lands. If Asshai was her goal she would have went East not West.

Her Sun Chaser had come to port in the last days of autumn, yet still she lingered at dockside as Lady Alys searched for a crew to sail her. She was proposing to do what only a handful of the boldest mariners had ever dared attempt before, to sail beyond the sunset in search of lands undreamed of....

 

....Alys Westhill did not believe it was. The scant writings she left behind show that even as a child Elissa Farman was convinced the world was “far larger and far stranger than the maesters imagine.” Not for her the merchant’s dream of reaching Ulthos and Asshai by sailing west. Hers was a bolder vision. Between Westeros and the far eastern shores of Essos and Ulthos, she believed, lay other lands and other seas waiting to be discovered: another Essos, another Sothoryos, another Westeros

 

How is this known to Alyssa?

No, she paid the crew on her own ship.. The Hightower cousins had their own ships

The perilous passage through the pirate-infested waters of the Stepstones lay ahead, and Lady Alys was hiring crossbowmen and sellswords to see her safely through the straits to open water

and later in Oldtown

Some men laughed at her, whilst others called her mad, or cursed her to her face. “Strange beasts, aye,” one rival captain told her, “and like as not, you’ll end up in the belly of one.” A good portion of the gold that the Sealord had paid for her stolen dragon’s eggs reposed safely in the vaults of the Iron Bank of Braavos, however, and with such wealth behind her, Lady Alys was able to tempt sailors by paying thrice the wages other captains could offer. Slowly she began to gather willing hands.

 

 

 

Yes so they sailed with her with the insurance that they get their money, at that moment she only need the ship and food. I dont say its not possible to have sold all her eggs, but one is a lot of money, while in braavos a ship is only 1 day work. 

I didnt say asshai was her goal, her goal was sail as much west as possible find new lands. SO what the book implied is the truth ,(what i allready said) But she became the shadowbinder later in life and could easily contact the sealord like she contacted Dany and made him crazy about the idea of dragons. The sealord has nothing to win with eggs that don't hatch. 

Alys is the only one that knows for sure that the world is round! SO thats the reason for the riddle north east west...

Edited by Seaserpent

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12 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

While I disagree with your idea of Alys having the dragon eggs, let alone hatching them, I do like the connection you make between Alys and Quaithe. I don't think Quaithe = Alys. But there is imo a reason why F&B suggests that Alys sailed around Planetos and docked in Asshai. Meanwhile Quaithe indeed uses a phrase that alludes to the spherical shape of Planetos.

One of the reasons I do not think Quaithe can be Alys is her mask. George hints at various genetic conditions with certain people that reflect to their skin: Bloodraven with albinism (though it does not affect his sight acuity), there are imo hints that the Qartheen and the people they derived of are a human version of "dominant white" (unpigmented skin, but dark eyes and hair). And then you have Asshai, a land where the sun rarely shines, with a soil you can grow no food on, a land where animals do not thrive, and children cannot be born, and yet somehow a city grew over the aeons. With the Forbidden City as an example of a human colony of people with a certain skin condition, Asshai is the ideal place for people suffering from the genetic condition that makes them allergic to light. So, it probably started as a colony for such people to lead a somewhat normal life, away from the sunlight (and scarring because of it). But in order to ensure that people would keep bringing them food (as they fail to do with the Forbidden City), these people built a trade in the sole thing remaning to them - magic - and this has been a success story to them.

Quaithe wears the facemask imo to shelter exposion of skin to the sunlight while she lives in Qarth, and most likely to hide the scars on her skin she amassed in her youth before she could seek shelter in Asshai.

That said, she might be a relative of Alys. Bloodraven we know to be old because of tree magic. Melisandre is alluded to be old, and likely is his daughter, also preserved by fire magic. Maester Aemon managed to grow old over a hundred years, because ice preserves. This certainly leaves room for a fourth character to have grown old on shadow magic.

Good adding, but Marwin studied there for 8 years and has a glass candal. So his skin is not poisoned and he has the same attributes as Quaithi to make contact with people and tell them about hatching dragons etc.. 

I like to add one more thing: Quathi (No-one) is always talking about "the stars" what is really important for only 1 group of people Sailormen, what Alys definitely is. So even when she is not Alys than she definitely is a sailor.

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Then much much later, long after the dance and the last dragons had died out, say after the tragedy of Summerhal where a Targ king failed to hatch 7 petrified dragon eggs in a huge fire, some Iron Banker or Sealord (or servants of a just-dead-sealord who thought of making a buck) considered the already petrified eggs harmless, as impossible to hatch, and sold them for profit, to a cheesemonger of Pentos (who had partnered with Varys whose business it is to discover the whereabouts of items). The cheesemonger presented them as a wedding gift to a young Targ princess.

Now this is interesting, because only someone high up in the IB hierarchy would be able to gain control of the eggs, or even know of their existence. At minimum, this would have to be a keyholder, who would also be a major depositor/borrower to/from the IB.

So right off the bat I'm thinking of Littlefinger, whom I have long suspected of working with Illyrio unbeknownst to Varys. Could it be he was the conduit for the eggs' transfer from the IB to Illyrio?

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2 minutes ago, Seaserpent said:

Good adding, but Marwin studied there for 8 years and has a glass candal. So his skin is not poisoned and he has the same attributes as Quaithi to make contact with people and tell them about hatching dragons etc.. 

I like to add one more thing: Quathi (No-one) is always talking about "the stars" what is really important for only 1 group of people Sailormen, what Alys definitely is. So even when she is not Alys than she definitely is a sailor.

You misunderstood my post. I did not propose that Asshai causes this genetic condition, but that I think Asshai originally was a colony where people who were born with this condition from all over Essos settled to shelter from sunlight. Since they cannot grow their own food, nor breed animals, not even have their own children there, this particular colony had to do something to make sure that other people would keep sending boats with sustenance to survive, and they mastered shadow magic. This attracted other people who do not have the genetic condition to travel to Asshai to learn from them, and the sole way they can do that is by ship, and thus has become a type of shadow-magic Hogwarts, and on the side it became a trading center where goods of the East were traded with goods of the West.

(The Forbidden City is an example of a failing colony: people with greyscale are sent there to live, but the location does not stop the disease from progressing, and thus they could not form some attractive trade. It's a place ships want to avoid if they can. Foodstuff is sent only once in a while, and often doesn't even arrive.)

So, you have a mix of people at Asshai

(1) people who travel to Asshai in order to survive because of their light allergy. While their for their survival, they also learn shadow magic.

(2) people who want to learn shadow magic and therefore travel to Asshai. They don't have light allergy, nor will they ever have it. It's a condition you're born with.

Quaithe imo is an example of (1), and Marwin and Mirri and Melisandre are examples of (2).

Now combine this idea with Alys rumored to have docked at Asshai, and as you rightly point out Quaithe's phrase alluding to Planetos being spherical.

a) Quaithe's words are a possible verification that Alys did in fact dock at Asshai

b) Quaithe had to come from somewhere else other than Asshai, and she had to arrive by ship, and yet she is called "Quaithe of Asshai", as if Asshai is the place where she grew up, and not a visitor who went there to learn shadow magic for a few years.

c) Alys had no light allergy

d) Quaithe has a special interest in seeing Dany's baby dragons and later makes an effort to warn Dany against people wanting the dragons for themselves, without seeming to want anyhting in return.

So, Alys cannot be Quaithe, but Quaithe could be a daughter or granddaughter of Alys. Through the relation, she would know what Alys did in order to get a ship (steal 3 eggs and sell them to the Sealord of Braavos), her voyage and thus that you can get to the East or the West by sailing round Planetos the other way around. If Quaithe was Alys's daughter, born with the genetic condition that she is allergic to light, then this could motivate Alys to sail for Asshai, the sole place on Planetos where her child wold be safe from light. And while Alys may have had loads of adventures, if it turned out that there was no actual other continent (no Americas), but ended up in the east, she might have had mixed feelings and thus regrets over stealing and selling three dragon eggs for it, especially since nobody else would likely survive this route along Sunset Sea to the east in any other ship. Having seen her mother or grandmother die with regrets over her actions in youth, this would motivate Quaithe to make sure that the three stolen eggs, now hatched into dragons, remain with Dany.

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7 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Now this is interesting, because only someone high up in the IB hierarchy would be able to gain control of the eggs, or even know of their existence. At minimum, this would have to be a keyholder, who would also be a major depositor/borrower to/from the IB.

So right off the bat I'm thinking of Littlefinger, whom I have long suspected of working with Illyrio unbeknownst to Varys. Could it be he was the conduit for the eggs' transfer from the IB to Illyrio?

Agreed that if those eggs were kept in a vault and petrified there, then it required a keyholder to get them and sell them. However, if a sealord bought them, I expect those vaults to either be a vault in the hands of that sealord's family, or of a patrimonium vault that is linked to the estate itself. With the latter I mean that we could possibly consider the Sealord's Palace to be an estate independent of who occupies it, comparable to the White House or Downing Street 10. And while each occupant can choose to add stuff to it of his own taste, it becomes a type of museum after centuries. So, it is possible the eggs remained within the Sealord Palace, like the dragon skulls and the tapestries remained within the Red Keep. But each occupant is also at liberty to sell items of the estate in order to manage it. For example, plenty of wives of presidents in the White House sold historical items within the White House in order to pay for the managing of the White House. Jackie Kennedy tried to buy these items back for example. In this way, the regent Cersei Lannister is free to gift tapestries to Littlefinger.

Then we get the situation where a particular Sealord sheltered Dany, Viserys and their guardian Darry. So, this particular Sealord had a political interest in Targs, not to have actual dragons reborn, but for Braavosi commercial interests. Braavos prefers Westeros to be a stable realm, since that's better for trade. Westeros had just come out of a civil war, and nobody could know or foresee how stable the realm would remain under Robert Baratheon at the time. And with the dragons extinct, keeping spare Targs at your disposal to reinstate as king or queen in case Robert Baratheon's rule proved unstable, seemed a good bet for Braavos, especially since the Iron Bank has been historically invested into the Westerosi treasure. Now keeping the Targ children in the palace, relied on convincing Darry to remain, since he was the sole adult. What better way to convince the knight of being a Targ supporter, by gifting him three petrified dragon eggs? So, imo, the Sealord had the palace's patrimonium at his disposal and gifted them to Darry. He would have felt safe to do so, since they were petrified and Aegon had failed to hatch dragons with the 7 eggs he had at his own disposal at Summerhal. Surely, Braavos knew of this tragedy, as there are songs sung of it (Jenny of Oldstones).

So, now Darry had the eggs in his possesion, but did not reveal them yet to Danny nor Viserys. But Darry is sick and dies after 5 years, and the servants see their chance to enrich themselves, turning out Danny and Viserys, with Viserys grabbing the few things he can keep safe, such as his mother's crown. The servants find the dragon eggs and sell them.

As to Littlefinger's involvement. While I mentioned a likely parallel to Littlefinger getting the tapestries from Cersei, it may be no more than a parallel: that is LF's actions parallel those of Varys and Illyrio. LF backs someone he hopes will give him access to power, and bribes houses to support him. This he does in the Vale. He gets tapestries from the Red Keep patrimonium and gifts them to someone he can please with it, to ensure their loyalty. Illyrio did the same thing with Dany. Illyrio's gifts to Dany is why Dany refuses to agree to the deal the Tattered Prince wants to make in aDwD with her (Selmy agrees to it later on, after she's gone). LF also meddled with politics in parallel to Varys in aGoT. So, I don't think the parallel between LF and Varys, and LF and Illyrio proves LF is involved in Illyrio getting the 3 eggs. Because usually a parallel requires other characters than the original, in order to be deemed a parallel. It does help construct a hypothesis how the eggs ended up from Braavos to Pentos. But imo it remains a parallel. 

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hahaha, I had the same thought about Elissa, but without any more clues, it'd be pure wishful thinking. 

If she did reach Asshai, then it's not beyond the realm of possibility for her to have delved into sorcery, and gained immortality similar to Melisandre, and thus become Quaithe. Quaithe's words to Dany about going east to reach west, going north to reach south, could certainly be perceived in a new light. Maybe Quaithe wasn't simply speaking because she had magical knowledge, but from personal experience.

On the eggs, I'd say the eggs were definitely in the possession of the Sealord, and has no bearing on what Quaithe knows and does, but I do believe it's likely those are the same eggs from which Dany's dragons hatch. My theory on the eggs is that they were kept by the Sealords generation after generation, in secret, so as not to provoke any more uncomfortable moments with the Targaryens. When Oberyn and Darry signed the pact that Viserys was to marry Arianne, with the Sealord as witness, the eggs may have been revealed. But Varys and Illyrio found out, and somehow they connived to get the eggs. Maybe the Sealord at the time simply agreed to sell them to Illyrio, wishing to no longer be involved with them, or they were stolen. :dunno:

 

Edited by Corvinus

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41 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

You misunderstood my post. I did not propose that Asshai causes this genetic condition, but that I think Asshai originally was a colony where people who were born with this condition from all over Essos settled to shelter from sunlight. Since they cannot grow their own food, nor breed animals, not even have their own children there, this particular colony had to do something to make sure that other people would keep sending boats with sustenance to survive, and they mastered shadow magic. This attracted other people who do not have the genetic condition to travel to Asshai to learn from them, and the sole way they can do that is by ship, and thus has become a type of shadow-magic Hogwarts, and on the side it became a trading center where goods of the East were traded with goods of the West.

(The Forbidden City is an example of a failing colony: people with greyscale are sent there to live, but the location does not stop the disease from progressing, and thus they could not form some attractive trade. It's a place ships want to avoid if they can. Foodstuff is sent only once in a while, and often doesn't even arrive.)

So, you have a mix of people at Asshai

(1) people who travel to Asshai in order to survive because of their light allergy. While their for their survival, they also learn shadow magic.

(2) people who want to learn shadow magic and therefore travel to Asshai. They don't have light allergy, nor will they ever have it. It's a condition you're born with.

Quaithe imo is an example of (1), and Marwin and Mirri and Melisandre are examples of (2).

Now combine this idea with Alys rumored to have docked at Asshai, and as you rightly point out Quaithe's phrase alluding to Planetos being spherical.

a) Quaithe's words are a possible verification that Alys did in fact dock at Asshai

b) Quaithe had to come from somewhere else other than Asshai, and she had to arrive by ship, and yet she is called "Quaithe of Asshai", as if Asshai is the place where she grew up, and not a visitor who went there to learn shadow magic for a few years.

c) Alys had no light allergy

d) Quaithe has a special interest in seeing Dany's baby dragons and later makes an effort to warn Dany against people wanting the dragons for themselves, without seeming to want anyhting in return.

So, Alys cannot be Quaithe, but Quaithe could be a daughter or granddaughter of Alys. Through the relation, she would know what Alys did in order to get a ship (steal 3 eggs and sell them to the Sealord of Braavos), her voyage and thus that you can get to the East or the West by sailing round Planetos the other way around. If Quaithe was Alys's daughter, born with the genetic condition that she is allergic to light, then this could motivate Alys to sail for Asshai, the sole place on Planetos where her child wold be safe from light. And while Alys may have had loads of adventures, if it turned out that there was no actual other continent (no Americas), but ended up in the east, she might have had mixed feelings and thus regrets over stealing and selling three dragon eggs for it, especially since nobody else would likely survive this route along Sunset Sea to the east in any other ship. Having seen her mother or grandmother die with regrets over her actions in youth, this would motivate Quaithe to make sure that the three stolen eggs, now hatched into dragons, remain with Dany.

Never heard of this theory but its an interesting one. I always tought Asshai is hit by a meteor and everything turn to ashes and the climate dont let the ashes escape. Never tought of the idea that people wit a skin decease could off-course also live there. If Quaithi is not older than appearing (under 60) than she could be in fact be a bet-granddaughter or something. She would in fact know everything that Alys learned in her life. About the stars, the dragons, The globe that what goes west comes east and otherside around. She knows also that the Sealord has 3 eggs (maybe) and could have communicate with him through a glass candle and told him to adopt Dany to hatch the eggs. This didnt work so the sealord send her away. Than Illeryo richest man in the world for all we know could have bought the eggs also on advice from Quaithi who sended Marwyns (mirra mazdur) to help the hatching. Only question for me is why she want dragons??

Dont know of any of this theory is truth but this is what i think about it. I dont know 100% sure if she is Alys 

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1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

Yes so they sailed with her with the insurance that they get their money,

No, that is never said or suggested. You first claimed they were doing it for free and when the text showed you were mistaken, easy enough to do its only just been released, have refused to admit you were wrong and doubled down on your original error.

1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

 

at that moment she only need the ship and food. I dont say its not possible to have sold all her eggs, but one is a lot of money, while in braavos a ship is only 1 day work. 

Come on, you are deliberately being disingenuous as I refuse to believe you think that the ship she had commissioned was built in one day. Either you are pretty ignorant of the text or you are spreading false information to save face. 

She steals the eggs early in the year 54 and does not leave Braavos till the year 56, her boat took much, much longer than a day to build and in those years she was being hunted and being hidden and protected for a price. 

 

1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

I didnt say asshai was her goal, her goal was sail as much west as possible find new lands.

And that is why she needed to sell the eggs, such expeditions are not  cheap. 

She was planning on making her fortune far, far away from Westeros. What was she saving the other eggs for?

1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

 

SO what the book implied is the truth ,(what i allready said) But she became the shadowbinder

The book does not once imply that. Corlys, who is about 15-20 years younger once saw her ship. That's it. Her being alive is not magic at that point as well as the fact that ships don't die when their master does. 

1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

 

later in life and could easily contact the sealord like she contacted Dany and made him crazy about the idea of dragons. The sealord has nothing to win with eggs that don't hatch. 

There is zero evidence she is Quaithe. 

1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

Alys is the only one that knows for sure that the world is round!

No, she's not. It is common knowledge, like it was in our own middle ages. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bernie Mac said:

No, that is never said or suggested. You first claimed they were doing it for free and when the text showed you were mistaken, easy enough to do its only just been released, have refused to admit you were wrong and doubled down on your original error.

Come on, you are deliberately being disingenuous as I refuse to believe you think that the ship she had commissioned was built in one day. Either you are pretty ignorant of the text or you are spreading false information to save face. 

She steals the eggs early in the year 54 and does not leave Braavos till the year 56, her boat took much, much longer than a day to build and in those years she was being hunted and being hidden and protected for a price. 

 

And that is why she needed to sell the eggs, such expeditions are not  cheap. 

She was planning on making her fortune far, far away from Westeros. What was she saving the other eggs for?

The book does not once imply that. Corlys, who is about 15-20 years younger once saw her ship. That's it. Her being alive is not magic at that point as well as the fact that ships don't die when their master does. 

There is zero evidence she is Quaithe. 

No, she's not. It is common knowledge, like it was in our own middle ages. 

 

 

She knows after she went west to asshai, she have heard of asshai before and that it lays in the east. Also if she had bounds with Quaithi and she is into the stars like every sailor she knows.

Braavos is known for building ships in one day. This ship can be bigger so maybe 2 days or 3 but if she bought it with a dragon egg they could really be quick with this. Also the Sealord didnt want her too long there with the stolen eggs.

We aslo dont know what she did in that time if she got back to westeros in a month she was surely be caught, so even 1.5 years was a big risk.

We dont know any theory. But Quaithi is 100% a sailor otherwise there is no reason of mentioning any stars. There are 100% 3 eggs lost. The house with the red door is for me for 75% in Braavos sealord palace were Dany went, Why would the sealord (your words) bring the city in danger by hiding a Targaryan (and eggs earlier). The west east Reference of sailing is also pretty clear. That Quaithi has been to Braavos to be a faceless men is also possible (also if she is Alys and have been there a time), because she reference to herself as (No-one)

Only i dont know either if she is her or knowing her. I think that from all the Quaithi possible candidates she is the best! But Jon Snow being a bastard i also dont know for all i know Jon could be the son of Ashara Dayne and the fool of Harrenhall :s

But i think there are some possiblities here, but what i said not my theory but only the longer i look at it the more evidence is see.

 

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31 minutes ago, Seaserpent said:

Never heard of this theory but its an interesting one. I always tought Asshai is hit by a meteor and everything turn to ashes and the climate dont let the ashes escape. Never tought of the idea that people wit a skin decease could off-course also live there. If Quaithi is not older than appearing (under 60) than she could be in fact be a bet-granddaughter or something. She would in fact know everything that Alys learned in her life. About the stars, the dragons, The globe that what goes west comes east and otherside around. She knows also that the Sealord has 3 eggs (maybe) and could have communicate with him through a glass candle and told him to adopt Dany to hatch the eggs. This didnt work so the sealord send her away. Than Illeryo richest man in the world for all we know could have bought the eggs also on advice from Quaithi who sended Marwyns (mirra mazdur) to help the hatching. Only question for me is why she want dragons??

Dont know of any of this theory is truth but this is what i think about it. I dont know 100% sure if she is Alys 

You can read more on my proposal on how Asshai came to be here: https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2017/11/03/the-spiders-origin-part-i/#Asshai

The rest of the essay deals with various skin conditions such as leukism (dominant white) and albinism and how George adapted and adopted these real world conditions in his world building, as well as characters in the story.

I don't see any reason to make Quaithe meddling in Dany's background story before Dany seding out riders from Vaes Tolorro. Quaithe did not contact or search out Dany before a Dothraki rider told people in Qarth his Khaleesi had hatched three dragons. If Quaithe had meddled with the Sealord who sheltered Dany, then you have to explain why Quaithe didn't contact Dany in aGot and helped her with instructions to hatch the dragons, nor why Quaithe didn't just use the glass cando to contact Dany from a distance, while Dany was in the red waste or in Vaes Tolorro. Now, I'm sure that you could invent all sorts of scenarios for Quaithe meddling before Dany gets eggs and for Quaithe not to meddle at all once Dany has the eggs, but I prefer scenarios that follow George's plot-weaving more: George tends to limit magical powers, and writes certain results as a chain of decisions and events caused by the free will of various characters acting in their own mundane self interest. F & B sheds more light on Braavosi interests (peace, stability and commerce) aside from the tactics they apply in the series (betting on 2 horses). Sealords and Braavos are established enough to surmise motivations both to buy and in the hypothetical scenario I described to gift/sell dragon eggs, without any need of Quaithe meddling in it. So, no, I don't think Quaithe used a glass candle to convince a sealord to gift three dragon eggs to Sir Darry for the Targ children. As a politician, he could have gotten the notion all by himself.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Quaithe wanted Dany to hatch the eggs. She did not appear as a mirage to Dany in all of aGot. Dany worked it out all by herself, through a chain of events and coincidences. Nor does Quaithe ever even attempt to acquire the dragons from Dany. All we can conclude, based on Quaithe's known behavior so far, is that once Quaithe learned of the existene of dragons, she wanted to see them with her own eyes and warning Dany on people wanting them for themselves. We cannot ascribe any more motivation to Quaithe as wanting to protect Dany's dragons from ending up in any hands other than Targ dragonlords. We can hypothesise reasonably that Quaithe may have a personal history and background to motivate her for wishing that Dany keeps the dragons as a type of restitution to the theft Quaithe's ancestor may have done. But I would not dare to go farther than that.

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