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Awards Season 2019 - Movie Edition: Show Must Go On! (UPDATE: Oscar Noms, SAG Winners)

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26 minutes ago, mormont said:

It makes my point. These films had to be outstanding just to get a nomination. You compare BP to these in arguing that it doesn't deserve a nomination - instead of comparing it to the more run-of-the-mill nominees to accept that it does (or comparing those other nominees to Hurt Locker and 12 Years). 

Ok I see your point. I don't quite agree though, because I think as you say, it is recognised the type of movies that the Oscars favour, and generally people notice when substandard movies are nominated for reasons outside their filmic quality.  I wasn't comparing BP to actual good movies, merely stating that movies by women or POC can be there simply out of merit. 

If it helps you, I also think that A Star is Born and Bohemian Rhapsody have no place being near a best picture nom. I'd compare Black Panther to those and say all 3 shouldn't be there. 
 

29 minutes ago, mormont said:

It deserves a nomination for Best Director because of the things I already discussed, most of which come from the creative vision of Ryan Coogler. You already noted, however grudgingly, that you agree Michael B Jordan might have earned an acting nomination and let's face it - that's not a radical view. I myself would incline towards other awards, including cinematography, but they're subjective, I know. YMMV, and in fact I know it does. 

If Coogler got an Oscar for Black Panther, when it's probably his worst movie, then I would have to view it in the same way as Scorcese getting an oscar for the Departed.. nothing more.

 But as we know, Oscars are really not about a film's quality, so much of this discussion is really just a big waste of time!

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If Black Panther deserves a Best Picture nomination, than so does the Ant Man And The Wasp and every other Marvel movie of the same mold (there are 20 by now).

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6 minutes ago, Gronzag said:

If Black Panther deserves a Best Picture nomination, than so does the Ant Man And The Wasp and every other Marvel movie of the same mold (there are 20 by now).

No! because... significance 

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20 minutes ago, Gronzag said:

If Black Panther deserves a Best Picture nomination, than so does the Ant Man And The Wasp and every other Marvel movie of the same mold (there are 20 by now).

Ant-Man didn't get the minimum threshold of votes, ergo it is not a nominee. Only 8 films did this year.

14 minutes ago, Gronzag said:

Also, I find The Hurt Locker incredibly overrated.

This is true.

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10 hours ago, mormont said:

It's no secret how important I think the film is. Honestly, I think about it a fair bit. That alone is significant. Other Marvel movies might perhaps have tighter scripts or better action sequences or funnier quips, but BP is the one that resonated with a lot of people. Of course, the people it resonated with tend not to be well represented in the Academy. It'll walk off with a bunch of technical awards nobody much cares about, the usual fate of a genre film the Academy wants to ignore, but can't. But it absolutely deserves to be in the nominees. 

Certainly, we can't negate the importance and the impact the movie had. And that, after all, the part of the art.The art is meant to be culturally relevant and to be cared about. That is why I have fewer issues with Black Panther being nominated than "Bohemian Rhapsody", for example. 

I agree with you about many aspects of the movie being meant to create outstanding narrative for Oscars season. But, I don't think Academy is being honest in its praise. I think that too many accusations and a lot of attempts to clear the waters have created a situation in which some Academy members felt more compelled to vote for BP. 

I wouldn't say BP is undeserving, having the year that we had. I just feel that in any other year, it certainly would not be seen by Academy members as anything else other than a spring blockbuster. And their alternative "category" attempt kinda proves it.

9 hours ago, Isis said:

LOL. Finally? Cos he's waited SUCH a long time? Like, longer than Christian Bale* or Viggo Mortensen (who both happen to be substantially better actors with better range)?

*I mean Best Actor, yes he has one for Best Supporting Actor

IIRC, this is Cooper's 4th nomination. Bale has won one, and winning another is not as simple as winning the first. Mortensen is becoming more and more prolific to the Academy members. Not to mention that "A star is born" is his project and ultimately Academy nominated him in 3 different categories this year. So, yeah, Cooper has already established reputation with Academy.

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13 hours ago, mormont said:

We all know the answer to that.

Was the movie made by a white male director with a critical reputation? Then it gets nominated. 

Is the movie about Hollywood? Nominated.

Historical costume drama featuring a critically acclaimed actor? Nominated.

Star doing a two-hour impersonation of a famous historical person with a tragic life, ideally gay or disabled, although of course the star themselves cannot under any circumstances be either? Nominated.

Movie directed by a POC, or a woman, or a genre movie? Then it gets measured against a hypothetical ur-nominee that is critically acclaimed, commercially successful, technically perfect, and cures cancer. If it can't do all that, then oh dear, the Oscars are about only the best films, you know? Sorry.  

 

You left out a trend from a few years ago, a beautiful actress portraying someone ugly or average looking, instant Oscar nominee. Because after all, she must be a great actress to portray someone ugly....

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5 hours ago, dbunting said:

You left out a trend from a few years ago, a beautiful actress portraying someone ugly or average looking, instant Oscar nominee. Because after all, she must be a great actress to portray someone ugly....

I'm honestly sitting here thinking that's the reason Gaga got the nom. Didn't see the film, but she looked "ordinary" in one of the promo pictures and I thought wow, she looks like she could have killed it here. I mean, we're used to meat dresses and stuff like that with her. But again, I didn't see the film so she might have actually been brilliant.

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24 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

I'm honestly sitting here thinking that's the reason Gaga got the nom. Didn't see the film, but she looked "ordinary" in one of the promo pictures and I thought wow, she looks like she could have killed it here. I mean, we're used to meat dresses and stuff like that with her. But again, I didn't see the film so she might have actually been brilliant.

I totally understand why she was nominated.. don't agree with it, but understand it. 

Incredibly popular movie
Famous pop star
Catchy main song
Its about the entertainment industry.
Role is a rags to riches tale full of big overblown emotions and hammy moments.

Of course she was nominated.

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8 hours ago, dbunting said:

You left out a trend from a few years ago, a beautiful actress portraying someone ugly or average looking, instant Oscar nominee. Because after all, she must be a great actress to portray someone ugly....

Point well taken, but I thought the most famous examples of this (who both won) - Nicole Kidman in The Hours and Charlize Theron in Monster - were both deserving.

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3 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

I'm honestly sitting here thinking that's the reason Gaga got the nom. Didn't see the film, but she looked "ordinary" in one of the promo pictures and I thought wow, she looks like she could have killed it here. I mean, we're used to meat dresses and stuff like that with her. But again, I didn't see the film so she might have actually been brilliant.

I'm not an avid fan or follower of Gaga so I might be wrong but I think her more extreme/radical fashion statements like the meat dress were a while ago during her Fame Monster tour. I think she pulled back a lot with Joanne. 

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Anyone comparing Black Panther to Ant Man and the Wasp is just grasping. Look, maybe you didn't think it was as great as many do, maybe you thought Infinity War was better, whatever. But Black Panther is an incredibly well made blockbuster movie; it has its own voice (a problem that many Marvel movies struggle with), it has fantastic acting, a very good script, innovative costume/set design, tackles more complex themes than most superhero movies, and yes, it is significant in a way that Ant Man isn't. It's not hard to understand how out of all the blockbusters that came out this year, it was the one Oscar voters thought was most deserving of a nomination. I put it ahead of a movie like Bohemian Rhapsody, which I also liked well enough,

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I saw Black Panther twice. I thought I must have simply missed something when I saw it first time. But it was even worse on second viewing. 

So yeah, really not with you.

Ant Man and the Wasp was mediocre on every single level. 

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7 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

I'm honestly sitting here thinking that's the reason Gaga got the nom. Didn't see the film, but she looked "ordinary" in one of the promo pictures and I thought wow, she looks like she could have killed it here. I mean, we're used to meat dresses and stuff like that with her. But again, I didn't see the film so she might have actually been brilliant.

I thought she was very good.

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SCREEN ACTORS GUILD AWARDS

 

Outstanding Performance by a Cast in a Motion Picture:
A Star Is Born
WINNER: Black Panther 
BlacKkKlansman 
Bohemian Rhapsody 
Crazy Rich Asians

Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Leading Role:
Emily Blunt, Mary Poppins Returns 
WINNER: Glenn Close, The Wife 
Olivia Colman, The Favourite 
Lady Gaga, A Star Is Born 
Melissa McCarthy, Can You Ever Forgive Me?

Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Leading Role: 
Christian Bale, Vice 
Bradley Cooper, A Star Is Born 
WINNER: Rami Malek, Bohemian Rhapsody 
Viggo Mortensen, Green Book 
John David Washington, BlacKkKlansman

SAG Lifetime Achievement Award: Alan Alda

Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Supporting Role: 
WINNER: Mahershala Ali, Green Book 
Timothee Chalamet, Beautiful Boy 
Adam Driver, BlacKkKlansman 
Sam Elliott, A Star Is Born 
Richard E. Grant, Can You Ever Forgive Me?

Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Supporting Role: 
Amy Adams, Vice 
WINNER: Emily Blunt, A Quiet Place 
Margot Robbie, Mary Queen Of Scots 
Emma Stone, The Favourite 
Rachel Weisz, The Favourite

Outstanding Action Performance by a Stunt Ensemble in a Motion Picture: 
Ant-Man And The Wasp 
Avengers: Infinity War 
The Ballad Of Buster Scruggs 
WINNER: Black Panther 
Mission: Impossible — Fallout

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What an odd collection of awards. 

Stunt ensemble? Well without sounding like a broken record.. Mission Impossible should have won that hands down, it shouldn't even be close.. Tom broke himself for those stunts for gods sake!

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15 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What an odd collection of awards. 

Stunt ensemble? Well without sounding like a broken record.. Mission Impossible should have won that hands down, it shouldn't even be close.. Tom broke himself for those stunts for gods sake!

Not something that should be celebrated or encouraged imo. I’m not sure if the awarding bodies care about stuff like that but that would be a good reason to withhold an award in my view - to discourage reckless stupidity in the future

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Just now, HelenaExMachina said:

Not something that should be celebrated or encouraged imo. I’m not sure if the awarding bodies care about stuff like that but that would be a good reason to withhold an award in my view - to discourage reckless stupidity in the future

It was illustrative of just how exciting the stunt work was in that movie. Should be winning all the awards in that category. Not sure how BP and its 2002-quality CGI and jumping about won that.

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FWIW, MI has never won the award. I think @HelenaExMachina is right and that it is probably a reaction to Cruise pushing the boundaries due to making it a part of his brand.  If it weren't for that, maybe it would have won. But once you take out MI, BP was the most coherent and expansive stunt work among the remaining nominees. Stunt ensemble is about the stunt team, not about the CGI.

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