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Ser Dips A lot

My Trial Of Seven

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Who wins this Trial of Seven:

Team 1- 

1. Garlan Tyrell

2. Loras Tyrell

3. The Mountain

4. Randyl Tarly (Heartsbane)

5. Jaime Lannister

6. Bronn

7. Lyle Crakehall

 

Team 2- 

1. Sandor Clegane

2. Robar Royce

3. Oberyn Martell

4. Barristan Selmy

5. Brienne of Tarth 

6. Lyn Corbray (Lady Forlorn)

7. Greatjon Umber

 

This Trial of Seven will be fought on foot. It will take place on an open field at the beginning of asoiaf, before the War of the Five Kings. Fight to the death. Who wins?

 

I feel like I potentially stacked Team 1 but after second thought, I think this one is coming down to the last man. We haven’t seen all of these characters fight so there is some margin for speculation, as always, on what several of these guys are capabale of. Team 2 is my favorite; Sandor is the last man standing.

 

Edited by Ser Dips A lot
Brienne does not have Oathkeeper

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3 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

There are powerhouses on both sides, but I'd have to go with Team 1. 

Maybe the presence of Garlan, Jaime, and Gregor together is just too much. I feel like Team 1 has the best combo of 3 fighters but Team 2 has the better 7. What leads you to favor Team 1?

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4 hours ago, Ser Dips A lot said:

Maybe the presence of Garlan, Jaime, and Gregor together is just too much. I feel like Team 1 has the best combo of 3 fighters but Team 2 has the better 7. What leads you to favor Team 1?

I don't know anything about Lyle Crakehall, and Loras Tyrell seems more of a tourney knight then an actual fighter. But Randyll Tarly has a valyrian steel sword, and from everything we've heard about the man he seems like he'd be skilled at fighting. Jaime Lannister is considered to be one of the best swordsman in Westeros. The Mountain is just a beast. Garlan Tyrell seems pretty skilled. And Bronn has cunning, and is a survivor. 

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1 hour ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

I don't know anything about Lyle Crakehall, and Loras Tyrell seems more of a tourney knight then an actual fighter. But Randyll Tarly has a valyrian steel sword, and from everything we've heard about the man he seems like he'd be skilled at fighting. Jaime Lannister is considered to be one of the best swordsman in Westeros. The Mountain is just a beast. Garlan Tyrell seems pretty skilled. And Bronn has cunning, and is a survivor. 

Lyle Crakehall is “big and strong”. Jaime considers him one of the strongest people in Westeros when thinking of who could match him in a fight. In the series, he tells Jaime that after the fall of Riverrun, he intends to head back to Darry to find and kill Sandor Clegane. Perhaps he is foolish, but he thinks himself capable of killing The Hound apparently. I think Bronn and Loras are the weak links for Team 1. Brienne and old Barristan are probably the two weaker fighters on Team 2, not too sure about Lyn Corbray, however. The team is only as strong as it’s weakest link, usually. The outcome of this fight will depend on the initial matchups I guess and who kills who first.

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How much time did you put into this? Because at first glance I was, ‘ha team 1 for sure’, but analyzing the teams a bit more, I realized that this is an excellent match up that bears more thought.

I would say the biggest unknown is Robar Royce. He is considered a skilled swordsman, but this is the opinion of a few other knights who’ve seen him fight.

Team 1 has an advantage in combat prowess, between the Mountain being nigh unstoppable, Jaime undoubtedly the best swordsman, Loras and Garlan highly skilled knights, and Bronn with his cunning. I’m sure Tarly and Crakehall are skilled, too, not in the same tier as the rest, but they have their advantages, too – Tarly has combat experience, and on the ground using a Valyrian greatsword will give him a big advantage; Crakehall is a big, strong guy (3rd or 4th of the whole bunch, depending how he matches up against Sandor)

Team 2 has an advantage in experience, with Barristan, Oberyn, and I would say the Greatjon, too. The Hound fights with a ferocity that no else here has, augmented by his skill. Brienne is strong, and highly skilled too, and Robar is possibly at her level (or higher if you believe certain book characters). Corbray has a reputation as well, one of the best in the Vale, and fighting with Lady Forlorn will give him a speed advantage when he attacks.

I can see Team 2 strategizing more than Team 1. Barristan and Oberyn, being the most experienced warriors would try to come up with a strategy on how to approach the fight. The rest would probably listen to them on account of their legendary status.

On Team 1, Tarly will try to strategize, but Jaime, Gregor, and likely Loras will ignore him, all arrogant in their own way. And any suggestions Bronn will have will also be ignored.

On other hand, I can’t say it’s all perfect for Team 2. With this being a fight to the death, there are two people who really want the Mountain dead, so whatever strategy Team 2 could come up with could easily be dismissed as soon as the fight starts.

I agree that it will likely come down to a last fighter standing, but I'll give the advantage to Team 1. Or maybe it will be a draw.

Edited by Corvinus

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11 hours ago, Corvinus said:

How much time did you put into this? Because at first glance I was, ‘ha team 1 for sure’, but analyzing the teams a bit more, I realized that this is an excellent match up that bears more thought.

I would say the biggest unknown is Robar Royce. He is considered a skilled swordsman, but this is the opinion of a few other knights who’ve seen him fight.

Team 1 has an advantage in combat prowess, between the Mountain being nigh unstoppable, Jaime undoubtedly the best swordsman, Loras and Garlan highly skilled knights, and Bronn with his cunning. I’m sure Tarly and Crakehall are skilled, too, not in the same tier as the rest, but they have their advantages, too – Tarly has combat experience, and on the ground using a Valyrian greatsword will give him a big advantage; Crakehall is a big, strong guy (3rd or 4th of the whole bunch, depending how he matches up against Sandor)

Team 2 has an advantage in experience, with Barristan, Oberyn, and I would say the Greatjon, too. The Hound fights with a ferocity that no else here has, augmented by his skill. Brienne is strong, and highly skilled too, and Robar is possibly at her level (or higher if you believe certain book characters). Corbray has a reputation as well, one of the best in the Vale, and fighting with Lady Forlorn will give him a speed advantage when he attacks.

I can see Team 2 strategizing more than Team 1. Barristan and Oberyn, being the most experienced warriors would try to come up with a strategy on how to approach the fight. The rest would probably listen to them on account of their legendary status.

On Team 1, Tarly will try to strategize, but Jaime, Gregor, and likely Loras will ignore him, all arrogant in their own way. And any suggestions Bronn will have will also be ignored.

On other hand, I can’t say it’s all perfect for Team 2. With this being a fight to the death, there are two people who really want the Mountain dead, so whatever strategy Team 2 could come up with could easily be dismissed as soon as the fight starts.

I agree that it will likely come down to a last fighter standing, but I'll give the advantage to Team 1. Or maybe it will be a draw.

I’d say I atleast put a solid hour into this. I wanted the teams to be somewhat realistic, in respect to this actually happening, so I went with Team 1 being the Westerlands/Reach alliance and Team 2 as the Vale/North/Stormlands/Dorne alliance plus one Sandor Clegane. I wanted to make it an even match, so I tweaked and fine tuned the fighters more than once, replacing Arys Oakheart with Lyle Crakehall on Team 1 at the last minute. I thought that made it even, and it really could go either way at that. I imagine this could be a quick fight, given how everyone is so deadly in their own right, or it might go the distance, lasting an hour or more. What do you think? Also, I agree with your breakdowns of the fighters, Team 1 for the individual prowess and Team 2 for more experience. 

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3 hours ago, Ser Dips A lot said:

I’d say I atleast put a solid hour into this. I wanted the teams to be somewhat realistic, in respect to this actually happening, so I went with Team 1 being the Westerlands/Reach alliance and Team 2 as the Vale/North/Stormlands/Dorne alliance plus one Sandor Clegane. I wanted to make it an even match, so I tweaked and fine tuned the fighters more than once, replacing Arys Oakheart with Lyle Crakehall on Team 1 at the last minute. I thought that made it even, and it really could go either way at that. I imagine this could be a quick fight, given how everyone is so deadly in their own right, or it might go the distance, lasting an hour or more. What do you think? Also, I agree with your breakdowns of the fighters, Team 1 for the individual prowess and Team 2 for more experience. 

No way will it last an hour or so. But it won't be superfast either. A few may go down fast, particularly anyone too slow or too stupid to not dodge when the Mountain comes down on them, and the rest will stretch it out to 10-20 minutes. Also, replace Royce with Areo Hotah, and the fight goes to Team 2.

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13 hours ago, Corvinus said:

No way will it last an hour or so. But it won't be superfast either. A few may go down fast, particularly anyone too slow or too stupid to not dodge when the Mountain comes down on them, and the rest will stretch it out to 10-20 minutes. Also, replace Royce with Areo Hotah, and the fight goes to Team 2.

I don’t think too highly of Areo Hotah, to be honest. He’s big and strong, yes, but what exactly has he done? I know the same could be said about Robar, but I think being labeled as a “very good swordsman” and bearing the last name Royce means something. I mean, Loras did kill him in a rage, but I think that was a fluke. Like Brienne beating Jaime; the circumstances didn’t quite make it fair and weren’t typical. But that is life, the best man doesn’t always win. Robar, to me, seems like his generations Jaime Lannister, as I’ve heard people on these forums say. And he died without the chance to make a name for himself. Hotah is old and seasoned, with no real accolades still. Killing Arys Oakheart wasn’t a big feat. He just may end up fighting someone formidable before his time comes, perhaps Victarion or Darkstar. Any thoughts on who he might be matched up against in the remainder of the series?

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1 hour ago, Ser Dips A lot said:

I don’t think too highly of Areo Hotah, to be honest. He’s big and strong, yes, but what exactly has he done? I know the same could be said about Robar, but I think being labeled as a “very good swordsman” and bearing the last name Royce means something. I mean, Loras did kill him in a rage, but I think that was a fluke. Like Brienne beating Jaime; the circumstances didn’t quite make it fair and weren’t typical. But that is life, the best man doesn’t always win. Robar, to me, seems like his generations Jaime Lannister, as I’ve heard people on these forums say. And he died without the chance to make a name for himself. Hotah is old and seasoned, with no real accolades still. Killing Arys Oakheart wasn’t a big feat. He just may end up fighting someone formidable before his time comes, perhaps Victarion or Darkstar. Any thoughts on who he might be matched up against in the remainder of the series?

I would say Hotah is extremely dangerous with his longaxe. Give him another weapon, and maybe he has no skill, and while we don't know how tough the training he received was, I wouldn't be surprised if it's up there with the Unsullied, the difference being that the Unsullied are trained to be soldiers, while the holy guards of Norvos, per their name are bodyguards. We see him study potential opponents carefully, much like Bronn does, too. He thinks that Balon Swann is better than Arys, just by looking at him, and analyzes how he would have to fight him. Speaking of, Swann is another name to potentially put in there. In a Tyrion chapter it's mentioned he is highly skilled with a number of weapons, and we see him fight at the Blackwater, alongside Mandon Moore. Jaime thinks well of him, too, at the meeting in the White Sword Tower.

Darkstar or Swann are the likeliest guys Hotah will face, based on where the story is going, unless Doran decides to send him to protect Arianne later on, which will bring him in contact with a number of dangerous fighters.

Edited by Corvinus

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2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I would say Hotah is extremely dangerous with his longaxe. Give him another weapon, and maybe he has no skill, and while we don't know how tough the training he received was, I wouldn't be surprised if it's up there with the Unsullied, the difference being that the Unsullied are trained to be soldiers, while the holy guards of Norvos, per their name are bodyguards. We see him study potential opponents carefully, much like Bronn does, too. He thinks that Balon Swann is better than Arys, just by looking at him, and analyzes how he would have to fight him. Speaking of, Swann is another name to potentially put in there. In a Tyrion chapter it's mentioned he is highly skilled with a number of weapons, and we see him fight at the Blackwater, alongside Mandon Moore. Jaime thinks well of him, too, at the meeting in the White Sword Tower.

Darkstar or Swann are the likeliest guys Hotah will face, based on where the story is going, unless Doran decides to send him to protect Arianne later on, which will bring him in contact with a number of dangerous fighters.

It’s funny you say that about Balon Swann, I actually wanted to put him on Team 2 and almost did, but there was too much competition. Perhaps putting him in instead of Robar Royce would’ve been more feasible since we’ve actually seen him fight and have an idea what he’s capable of; would’ve made a more predictable fight. Seems like his weapon of choice is the morning star. That’s unique for a kingsguard I believe, I’ve wondered why that’s his primary weapon. A combination of brunt-force and puncturing attack, its deadly in the right hands but why choose it over a sword? I think it’s effective against most opponents but fighting a heavily armored fighter, especially a large one like Gregor, I’d think you’d want a sword to slash and thrust into the openings of the plate. Would be crazy to have a trial of 7 featuring almost all of the medieval weapons: longswords, greatswords, warhammer( it says Sandor wields one), spear, and a mace/morning star. 

And you’re take on Hotah is good too, he probably has had some serious training like the unsullied, but more specified in defense as a bodyguard like you said. He must be a very calculating fighter like Bronn is, but far more deadly. Could see him fighting Darkstar if he gets Dawn, that would be an epic duel. 

The longaxe is a badass weapon, I always wonder why no one in Westeros prefers pole arms. All the famous knights are noted as swordsman; no one is ever wielding halberds or longaxes for that matter. I think it’s a serious advantage to have that reach. 

Edited by Ser Dips A lot

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1 hour ago, Ser Dips A lot said:

It’s funny you say that about Balon Swann, I actually wanted to put him on Team 2 and almost did, but there was too much competition. Perhaps putting him in instead of Robar Royce would’ve been more feasible since we’ve actually seen him fight and have an idea what he’s capable of; would’ve made a more predictable fight. Seems like his weapon of choice is the morning star. That’s unique for a kingsguard I believe, I’ve wondered why that’s his primary weapon. A combination of brunt-force and puncturing attack, its deadly in the right hands but why choose it over a sword? I think it’s effective against most opponents but fighting a heavily armored fighter, especially a large one like Gregor, I’d think you’d want a sword to slash and thrust into the openings of the plate. Would be crazy to have a trial of 7 featuring almost all of the medieval weapons: longswords, greatswords, warhammer( it says Sandor wields one), spear, and a mace/morning star. 

And you’re take on Hotah is good too, he probably has had some serious training like the unsullied, but more specified in defense as a bodyguard like you said. He must be a very calculating fighter like Bronn is, but far more deadly. Could see him fighting Darkstar if he gets Dawn, that would be an epic duel. 

The longaxe is a badass weapon, I always wonder why no one in Westeros prefers pole arms. All the famous knights are noted as swordsman; no one is ever wielding halberds or longaxes for that matter. I think it’s a serious advantage to have that reach. 

Well Balon Swann wasn't born a Kingsguard, he would have trained with all manner of weapons, and the morning-star became his preferred. We also see he is skilled with the bow, as he comes in 2nd or 3rd at the archery contest, since he is from the Dornish Marches. (It's not clear who gets 2nd, he or Jalabhar Xho) Also, most of the fighters you picked here would fight in full plate, and a sword will do nothing against that, unless you can find the weak spots, but that means getting in close, and that would be terrible against the Mountain. (We see Criston Cole demolish Harwin Strong, who was the strongest knight in Westeros at the time, with a morning-star.)

Actually for this fight, most of the fighters should be smart enough to pick polearms. As you mentioned, the reach would be important, and also the punching/cutting power of a poleax would be great. GRRM does mention longaxes quite a bit, and halberds appear occasionally. It's unclear to me if GRRM is imagining the Dane or Norman longaxe of the 10-11th century, or the poleax of the 15th century, which was a primary weapon on the battlefields of the Wars of the Roses when he refers to longaxes.

 

Edited by Corvinus

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